Logan airport and guns in the trunk

JackO

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I was dropping off a coworker at Logan today. When entering, I saw a lot of police checking SOME cars and trucks entering the airport (opening the trunks, etc.). This made me think what would happen if I would have a gun legally being transported in my vehicle.

The question is, is it legal to have an unloaded gun in a locked container (locked trunk, or special locked box in the vehicle with no locked trunk) in the vehicle driving through the airport? On first read, I see no violation, but would like to have an opinion of our experts.
 
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An unloaded gun in a locked container absolutely isn't a problem. You're allowed to fly with your guns in that condition, and you would have to bring them to the airport for that.

Some people say that there's an issue for carrying a loaded gun in that situation (i.e. it's illegal), but I don't agree.
 
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An unloaded gun in a locked container absolutely isn't a problem. You're allowed to fly with your guns in that condition, and you would have to bring them to the airport for that.

Some people say that there's an issue for carrying a loaded gun in that situation (i.e. it's illegal), but I don't agree.

I agree. You can carry a loaded gun with you up to the security checkpoint if I'm correct.
 
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I agree. You can carry a loaded gun with you up to the security checkpoint if I'm correct.
You are incorrect.

Carry at the airport (as in carry on one's person, not transport for travel) is a violation of CMR 740 21.07 Unless you are specifically authorized, the CMRs require that any visitor surrender firearms and explosives to the officer in charge of the state police for the duration of your visit. (that could be, um "interesting").

CMRs are MA regulations that have the force of law, and explaining to the police that "I don't have to follow CMRs, only MGL" won't be a productive expenditure of effort. Everyone here is familiar with CMRs - the MA AG's safe handgun regulations were enacted as a CMR.

As a CMR, the penalties aren't going to be as severe as violation of MGL, however, it does provide a sound basis for the police on duty at the airport to consider it unlawful for a LTC-A holder who is carrying on one's person to be in violation and take corrective action.

Proceed at your own risk.
 
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You are incorrect.

Carry at the airport (as in carry on one's person, not transport for travel) is a violation of CMR 740 21.07

I've heard this before. Do you have the text of the statute? I have been unable to find it.


Edit: I just requested the text from the MA trial court law library, so they'll email it to me. I'm curious to see what it says.
 
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I was looking for this text earlier when I saw this thread. I was unable to find an official copy online, but I determined 740 CMR 21.07 has been replaced with 740 CMR 21.11 and a google search brought me back to NES (go figure), and a post by our own jdubois.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=45786

21.11 Firearms and Dangerous Weapons

(a) Firearms and Explosives. No person (except federal or state law enforcement officers, officers, Post Office, Customs, express and air carrier employees or members of the Armed Forces of the United States and Massachusetts National Guard on official duty, who are authorized and licensed to carry firearms and explosives) shall carry any firearms or explosives on the airport.

All persons other than those in the excepted classes shall, while on the airport, surrender all such objects in their possession to the Office in Charge of State Police Troop F.

(b) Dangerous Weapons and Prohibited Items. No person (except federal or state law enforcement officers, Post Office, Customs, or members of the Armed Forces of the United States and Massachusetts National Guard on official duty), unless authorized by the Authority, shall carry in a sterile area of the airport a knife or other dangerous weapon or any item or material prohibited by Federal Aviation Regulations (including but not limited to 14 CFR Part 108) or any FAA orders or directives, to be carried upon an aircraft.

(c) An Air Carrier shall prevent the passage beyond its security checkpoint of any dangerous weapon or any item prohibited by FAA regulation, standard, order or directive to be carried on aircraft.

(d) No person shall possess, either on the individual's person or on or in his/her accessible property within a sterile or restricted area of the Airport, a dangerous weapon or an item prohibited by FAA regulations, standard, order or directive to be carried on aircraft.

---

(Penalties are $50 first offense in a 12 month period, $150 second, and $250 third)
 

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Keep in mind the recent events at LAX. An individual, legally in possession, picking up a friend for a shooting weekend had a crap load of stuff with him. He got stopped in the ring @ LAX and was arrested. They took hours just trying to figure out with what to charge him, but they looked hard enough they found something. They made a big deal out of the fact the arms were there and how much ammo was with him.

Not sure what happened with the guy (there is a thread here on the issue) but the moral of the story is, if your trunk looks like mine (or most of ours) on a range day, a trip including the logan access roads, is likely not advisable. An LTC holder with a CCW is likely to never be seen by a random inspection, but a trunk full of arms and ammo is probably not a smart idea.
 
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I was looking for this text earlier when I saw this thread. I was unable to find an official copy online, but I determined 740 CMR 21.07 has been replaced with 740 CMR 21.11

Indeed. I just got an email back from the MA trial court law libraries, and it confirms that 740 CMR 21.07 has been deleted.

So does "on the airport" include the non-sterile areas, like the waiting area? I suspect that it does, since 21.11 specifically mentions that you can't have a weapon in a sterile area later. But does it include the access road, where you would go to pick someone up if you're not getting out of your car? I would bet that it does, as much of a hassle as that is.
 
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So does "on the airport" include the non-sterile areas, like the waiting area? I suspect that it does, since 21.11 specifically mentions that you can't have a weapon in a sterile area later. But does it include the access road, where you would go to pick someone up if you're not getting out of your car? I would bet that it does, as much of a hassle as that is.

My guess would be that "on the airport" includes any and all airport property, including the access road.

The question is, is it legal to have an unloaded gun in a locked container (locked trunk, or special locked box in the vehicle with no locked trunk) in the vehicle driving through the airport? On first read, I see no violation, but would like to have an opinion of our experts.

Though IANAL, I would think that this would be technically legal.
 

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Indeed. I just got an email back from the MA trial court law libraries, and it confirms that 740 CMR 21.07 has been deleted.

So does "on the airport" include the non-sterile areas, like the waiting area? I suspect that it does, since 21.11 specifically mentions that you can't have a weapon in a sterile area later. But does it include the access road, where you would go to pick someone up if you're not getting out of your car? I would bet that it does, as much of a hassle as that is.

I just requested the entirety of 21 from them. Hopefully I'll get it and see what's what.

My best solution is to treat Logan Airport like a leper colony and just stay away, far away! I'd sooner drive to TF Green or Manchester first if G_d forbid I had to actually use an airport for anything.
 

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We know that CMRs have "legal" requirements in them that go far beyond MGLs that underlie their authorization. Getting them changed/tossed in a MA court is probably an effort in futility. It would probably take at least a very expensive appeal to the MA SJC before you "might" get a chance that a judge might actually read the law and try to rule non-PC when the authority for the CMR doesn't support the prohibitions therein.
 

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I got my copy of the CMR. Both 21.07 and 21.11 have been deleted! [thinking]

Perhaps someone told them that they exceeded their legal authority?

No idea, but it is 50 pages long and I did a search for "firearms" and the only two hits were the redacted sections mentioned above.
 

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My guess would be that "on the airport" includes any and all airport property, including the access road.

Yup their definition of "airport" almost includes the air you breath if the breeze passed the airport proper.



extracted from 740 CMR 21.01 - Definitions

Airport - shall mean the land and developments owned, controlled, operated and maintained by the Authority at both Logan International Airport in East Boston, and L.G. Hanscom Field in Bedford, Massachusetts, unless otherwise specified, consisting of runways, taxiways, hangars, control towers, ramps, aprons, wharves, bulkheads, buildings, structures, roads, streets, parking and storage areas, improvements, utilities, facilities, or other real property, necessary or convenient, or desirable, for the landing, takeoff, accommodation and servicing of vehicles or aircraft of all types.
 
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I got my copy of the CMR. Both 21.07 and 21.11 have been deleted!

Wow, that's very interesting. But it seems odd, because if they haven't replaced them, that means that there is currently no statute making it illegal to carry even in the sterile potion of the airport (unless that's somewhere in MGL or federal law that I'm forgetting about).

I would say we should ask a lawmaker about this, but we don't want to bring it to their attention so that they can ban it again (not the sterile area part, I'm fine with carrying being prohibited in sterile areas).
 

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There was also a "security" section that was redacted.

Leads me to believe that they probably wrote a whole new CMR on airport security . . . that probably includes "offensive t-shirts" as well as everything else.

Or perhaps they might have "classified" all the prohibitions so that they can use "Catch-22" for prosecutions.

I'm pretty sure that sterile areas of the airports are covered somewhere in MGLs.
 
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I'm pretty sure that sterile areas of the airports are covered somewhere in MGLs.

You're right:

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/269-12f.htm

M.G.L. c.269 s.12f(b) Whoever occupies, or attempts to enter or occupy, a secure area of an airport or the cabin of an airplane, knowingly having in his possession or in his control and knowingly concealing, a cutting device or a prohibited weapon, notwithstanding any license to possess such a weapon or device, shall be punished by imprisonment in the house of correction for not more than 21/2 years or by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than 5 years or by a fine of not more than $5,000, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

M.G.L. c.269 s.12f(a) For the purposes of this section, the following words shall have the following meanings:—

“Prohibited weapon”, any infernal machine as defined in section 102A of chapter 266, any stun gun as defined in section 131J of chapter 140, any rifle, shotgun or firearm as defined in section 121 of chapter 140 or any weapon included in the list of weapons set forth in paragraph (b) of section 10.
 
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To advoid the vehicle checks just drive in the back door from Chelsea/Winthrop by the long term parking/gas tanks. Never had a problem. Only place get searched in the Term B garage. No security at the central parking either.

I have flown with my shot gun a few times. Piece of cake. I love it when they open the case on the ticket counter and everyone is staring.
 
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To advoid the vehicle checks just drive in the back door from Chelsea/Winthrop by the long term parking/gas tanks. Never had a problem. Only place get searched in the Term B garage. No security at the central parking either.

I have flown with my shot gun a few times. Piece of cake. I love it when they open the case on the ticket counter and everyone is staring.

Do you take your gun(s) on with you as a carry on? Or do they get stowed somewhere in the plane?
 
M

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They get stowed. Dont even think about carry on. Federal law prohibits that I think.

I have a nice aluminium case from cabelas. Built like a tank. All welded seams. No rivets.
In mass a short fat tsa guy comes out and has you open it. He verifies no ammo in the case, its unloaded and then has you toss in the little 3x5 card that you sign that says its unloaded and then you lock it back up. He sticks the bag tag on it and carrys it away. Stays with him until he hands it to guy in the belly of the plane. (saw this myself)
When you arrive, I went to Virginia, it just comes out on the conveyor belt with the rest of the bags.

Flying from Virginia the checkin was easier, fill out new card, throw in case, lock it up and hand it to baggage guys with all the other bags. Could care less thats it was a gun.
Arriving in Mass it came out with the rest of the bags. Go figure.
 
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Do you take your gun(s) on with you as a carry on? Or do they get stowed somewhere in the plane?

TSA regulations can be found here:

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm

He verifies no ammo in the case...

It is perfectly legal to transport ammunition in the same case as the firearm.

You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above.
 
M

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Yes sorry about that detail.

But I have been asked a few times "No ammo in the case?"

Seems a grey area to the agent even though the law is spelled out.

Honestly unless your case has individual compartments I would not carry ammo it it just because its heavy and will move and could damage the gun.

I would not fly with ammo unless you had a mag or 2 of it just due to the weight. Airlines are killing you on bag fees now days and paying $25-$50 extra for overweight. Not to mention $100 extra for the extra bag.
 
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They get stowed. Dont even think about carry on. Federal law prohibits that I think.

I have a nice aluminium case from cabelas. Built like a tank. All welded seams. No rivets.
In mass a short fat tsa guy comes out and has you open it. He verifies no ammo in the case, its unloaded and then has you toss in the little 3x5 card that you sign that says its unloaded and then you lock it back up. He sticks the bag tag on it and carrys it away. Stays with him until he hands it to guy in the belly of the plane. (saw this myself)
When you arrive, I went to Virginia, it just comes out on the conveyor belt with the rest of the bags.

Flying from Virginia the checkin was easier, fill out new card, throw in case, lock it up and hand it to baggage guys with all the other bags. Could care less thats it was a gun.
Arriving in Mass it came out with the rest of the bags. Go figure.

TSA regulations can be found here:

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm



It is perfectly legal to transport ammunition in the same case as the firearm.

Interesting, thanks for the info.
 
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The per-bag fees threw a monkey wrench into my traveling with guns procedure. Back when bags were free, I used a pelican case with "real locks" (not the TSA junk) and requested TSA inspection of my luggage while I was present. I was always received polite treatement, and had the request taken care of in a smooth and profesional manner.

If I do that now, and also have a bag to check, the seond bag fee is at least another $25 each way. I've modified my regular suitcase to have a cable loop permanently installed for an attachment point, and use a stranded steel cable run through the mag well and ejection ports of my handguns (which still fit into gun rugs) so they cannot be easily swiped from within the luggage. The cable is also convenient if I have to leave the guns in a rental car during dinner as I can usually find an attachment point in the trunk of the car.
 
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