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KN95 Masks

GhostFF

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Not sure how in any sane world wearing a cloth face diaper or a bulk-pack "surgical" mask over a true N95 mask would in any way be a substantive increase in filtering effectiveness. Given that the 95% effective rating of an N95 mask is reached through the incorporation of a middle layer of electrostatically charged fibers, the physics would say an additional layer of inferior mechanical filtration does bupkiss.

Here's a good article explaining the functioning of N95 masks




Based on the science, it makes sense that trying to sterilize N95 masks without a means to refresh the electrostatic charge would be folly and potentially dangerous.
Bingo

some companies made a lot of money off “sterilizing” N95’s. Turns out it wasn’t such a good idea
 

cathouse01

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Not sure how in any sane world wearing a cloth face diaper or a bulk-pack "surgical" mask over a true N95 mask would in any way be a substantive increase in filtering effectiveness. Given that the 95% effective rating of an N95 mask is reached through the incorporation of a middle layer of electrostatically charged fibers, the physics would say an additional layer of inferior mechanical filtration does bupkiss.

Here's a good article explaining the functioning of N95 masks:




Based on the science, it makes sense that trying to sterilize N95 masks without a means to refresh the electrostatic charge would be folly and potentially dangerous.
Not sure anyone, particularly the CDC, is saying to wear an additional mask over an N95. They are saying to wear multiple layers, and since an N95 is considered 5 layers I think that would meet their criteria. Even a surgical mask has 3 layers. What they are saying is that a single cloth layer may protect offer some protection for others by catching a good percentage of your exhaled droplets, it won’t do much to protect you from others.
 

cathouse01

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NIOSH approved N95’s should be fit tested for the individual user, per OSHA standards. You need a nearly 0% inhalation leakage to pass some of the testing we do at my job.

the KN95’s have about an 8% inhalation leak rate and will never ever pass an OSHA type fit test standard.

if you’re a person who thinks you’ll die from COVID, buy a rubber P100 style respirator from Home Depot with cartridges
RIsk benefit ratio. Having an ear loop KN95 is not as good as a professionally fitted N95 (or a P100), but it is better than nothing at all (particular if you take the time to get it right and use a clip in the back to pull the two ear loops together). If I can track down some headband N95s, I’ll happily switch to them. My P229 is not as good as an MP5 for self defense, but it was easy for me to get and it is way better than nothing.
 

Varmint

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RIsk benefit ratio. Having an ear loop KN95 is not as good as a professionally fitted N95 (or a P100), but it is better than nothing at all (particular if you take the time to get it right and use a clip in the back to pull the two ear loops together). If I can track down some headband N95s, I’ll happily switch to them. My P229 is not as good as an MP5 for self defense, but it was easy for me to get and it is way better than nothing.

Yes, that's why I use KN95s - they fit much better than paper masks (and the material doesn't seem to irritate my face), and they seem to block more than a cloth mask, which feels like it's doing nothing.

I'm also saving up for low-income housing so I can get a vaccine before the fire fighters.
 

teamRR

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Short of a full face, if you really want to protect yourself (and can get by with it in public since ridiculously many places ban the best protection for yourself since it doesn't protect others while supposidly a fabric flap does) you want a P100 with a good quality right sized half mask, not n95, kn95, etc. And a face shield.

You could dump gasoline all over your feet and not smell it wearing a P100. N95's are ok but filter less and do not fit nearly as well/tight.
 

LuvDog

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CDC says they test well but have no evidence they meet Korean standards, and said since they’re ear loop masks they’re not ideal.

Tested in May 2020. Maybe there’s newer info somewhere?



From what I've seen the filters do very well in testing. As the same with true N95 masks, it comes down to the fit. Even a real N95 that isn't fitted properly won't stand up to the standards by which they are tested.

It seems that most people are looking for KN95 from China, but the test/data that I've seen the KF94 from Korea are much better. They routinely out perform their rating, unlike the Chinese masks.
 

MGnoob

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If you want to wear a mask fine..... but seriously believing it does anything but make you “feel” safe is probably a mental health condition ...
It’s unbelievable that anybody goes for this. Why don’t they just mandate you wear a condom
 

Salyeica

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CDC says they test well but have no evidence they meet Korean standards, and said since they’re ear loop masks they’re not ideal.

Tested in May 2020. Maybe there’s newer info somewhere?


No, they’re certainly not ideal. Only masks with headband straps will give you the seal needed to ensure the filter can do its job. But I’d trust that mask over the KN95. The AirQueen has FDA 510k clearance as a surgical mask (not a respirator), so I imagine their standards have to be much more stringent so they don’t risk having that rescinded.
 

DispositionMatrix

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Actually, a “real” KN95 has to meet only slightly different standards than an N95. Problem is making sure that you get a mask that actually meets the KN95 standards.


Watch the video.
Per the video, there is no requirement for brushing one's teeth prior to using either mask.
 

Da_lucche

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Can't believe we are back to having these convos about masks... lol ... like clockwork, with the election over, we have leftist strongholds talking about reopening businesses and sending kids back to school (like Cuomo, Lightfoot and even Faker - my stepkid all of a sudden went from full virtual to now expected to go back to a 5 day physical school week GOOD!) but we also need to stock up on N95s and double up on masks because of a scary new version of the coof? LOL humans love to be taken for a ride by their puppet masters.
 

cathouse01

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It all depends on where you’re coming from. At over 65 I’m 90 times more likely to die from COVID-19 then a 25 year old. At the current 25 year old death rate of between 0.1 and 0.2 percent (not that much worse than regular flu) that means, if I get it, I’ve got between a 9% to 18% chance of dying from it. At the high end that's 2 in 10 people my age will croak if they get it. I do not like those odds. And this is information from my kids who work in healthcare and big Pharma, not the gov.

I don’t expect the 25 year old to wear a mask just because I don’t want to die from COVID-19. But just like I EDC even though I don’t expect to need it, I’m going to take reasonable precautions to avoid catching it. If I was paralyzed about it, I could just confine myself to my house. I spent the last half of my career in Business Continuity Management and that’s all about risk analysis and determining appropriate mitigation procedures based on the probability of the risk event occurring and the impact of the risk vs. the cost of the mitigation. Me wearing a mask is a relatively low cost mitigation of a fairly high cost risk (dying) that has a relatively high probability (possibly as high as 20% if I catch it) of occurring.

If you think that is being taken for a ride by puppet masters, I really don’t care.
 

Dench

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It all depends on where you’re coming from. At over 65 I’m 90 times more likely to die from COVID-19 then a 25 year old. At the current 25 year old death rate of between 0.1 and 0.2 percent (not that much worse than regular flu) that means, if I get it, I’ve got between a 9% to 18% chance of dying from it. At the high end that's 2 in 10 people my age will croak if they get it. I do not like those odds. And this is information from my kids who work in healthcare and big Pharma, not the gov.

I don’t expect the 25 year old to wear a mask just because I don’t want to die from COVID-19. But just like I EDC even though I don’t expect to need it, I’m going to take reasonable precautions to avoid catching it. If I was paralyzed about it, I could just confine myself to my house. I spent the last half of my career in Business Continuity Management and that’s all about risk analysis and determining appropriate mitigation procedures based on the probability of the risk event occurring and the impact of the risk vs. the cost of the mitigation. Me wearing a mask is a relatively low cost mitigation of a fairly high cost risk (dying) that has a relatively high probability (possibly as high as 20% if I catch it) of occurring.

If you think that is being taken for a ride by puppet masters, I really don’t care.
my offer still stands. if you want N95s i have real ones you can buy off me that I'll mail tomorrow. they are new in package. send me a PM if you're interested.

just because i live my life fast and dangerous doesn't mean i fail to understand others circumstances.

if people want to do X to feel or be safe, i respect that. the problem is a lot of us here are sick if being caught up in thr covid dragnet of bullshit. not saying you're doing this, just saying why we're all salty a**h***s about it [rofl]
 

cathouse01

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Thanks, I think I’m comfortable with the level of protection I have

I guess I failed in my OP to make it clear I was only addressing those who felt as at risk as I. COVID-19 is an interesting beast. The epidemiologists who work for one of my kids say that you could not design a better virus for producing a pandemic. A “good” pandemic virus needs to be easily transmitted but not be “too” fatal. For example Ebola is actually not too good of a pandemic virus. It is hard to transmit and is almost always fatal. And even when it isn’t fatal, it quickly incapacitates its victims so they can’t go around spreading it. COVID-19 is very easy to transmit, and its fatal effects are limited to only a percentage (reasonably large as you move up the age spectrum) of its victims. The fact that it’s not fatal (nor even incapacitating) to many of its victims means that there is a large supply of carriers to move it through the population. That and the fact that it does have a relative high mortality rate among a certain segment of the population, but not on a whole, makes it a very good pandemic virus.

I believe the government has completely missed the boat on COVID-19. Their reluctance to rely on people taking individual responsibility for their own health care has resulted in these over broad closures and mask mandates. In my view they should have made it clear that most people will not have a major problem with the disease, but there are some folks (over 65, those with other specific co-morbidities) that will, and those people will need to take special care that they don’t get the disease. In a way it’s the same way many of them (.gov) approach gun control; they just don’t believe that people should take responsibility for their own safety.
 

Dr. Claw

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I know many of you are down on wearing masks. But for those of us in the high risk population who are, like me, belt and suspenders kind of folks you might want to consider stocking up on some KN95 masks while they are still available. The CDC has come out to recommend wearing multi-layer masks to help protect yourself from the new more contagious and potential more deadly UK variant of COVID-19. The most effective multi-layer masks are the N95 class, such as the KN95. You need to be sure you get a “real” KN95 and not some cheap knockoff. I can foresee that if this new UK variant really takes off, there will be another shortage of masks that will make the ammo shortage look small.

Since the vaccination process is proceeding a lot more slowly than I’d like and it may or may not be as effective against these new mutant strains, I think a KN95 mask when out in high risk ares (like a Walmart) is not a bad idea.

Right now prices have come down from their October highs, but that might not last if this UK variant (among others) hits hard. You don’t want to be caught short like you were with ammo.

Just saw this, not sure how true it is but for anyone who stocked up on cloth masks you should just throw those in the trash now apparently The CDC Is About to Release Much Stricter Mask Guidelines | Best Life
 

paul73

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COVID-19 is an interesting beast. The epidemiologists who work for one of my kids say that you could not design a better virus for producing a pandemic.
i guess one day the truth will be out - was it indeed designed, or wasn`t. one way or another - i guess it matters not that much now.

i still find all this mask non-sense quite retarded. now it is a double mask idea. then what, a triple mask and a latex gloves for everybody?
 

Salyeica

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Just saw this, not sure how true it is but for anyone who stocked up on cloth masks you should just throw those in the trash now apparently The CDC Is About to Release Much Stricter Mask Guidelines | Best Life
Cloth masks are garbage. They're better than nothing, but how much better? They were readily available and early guidance suggested the were "good enough." But the spread isn't happening solely in areas where fewer people wear masks, which means the masks most people are wearing don't provide adequate protection.
 

cathouse01

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i guess one day the truth will be out - was it indeed designed, or wasn`t. one way or another - i guess it matters not that much now.

i still find all this mask non-sense quite retarded. now it is a double mask idea. then what, a triple mask and a latex gloves for everybody?
Once again it’s the MSM confusing the issue. What the CDC really recommended was “multi-layer masks”. A regular surgical type mask is 3 layers and is designed to capture most of your exhaled particles to protect the patent, not the wearer. They will provide some protection for the wearer, but their primary purpose is to protect others. A N95 is a 5 layer mask meant to capture 95% of the particles you inhale and is meant to protect the wearer. The PR folks took the recommendation for multi-layer masks and devolved it to the idea of wearing multiple masks.

ETA The epidemiologist weren’t implying that it actually was designed. They wouldn’t touch that with a ten foot pole. What they were saying is that it couldn’t be better suited to start a pandemic if it had been design to do that. Nature is capable of pretty much anything.
 
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Salyeica

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i guess one day the truth will be out - was it indeed designed, or wasn`t. one way or another - i guess it matters not that much now.

i still find all this mask non-sense quite retarded. now it is a double mask idea. then what, a triple mask and a latex gloves for everybody?
Don't forget safety goggles! That dumb idea was bandied about at one point because the virus could enter your body through mucous membranes in the eye!
 

Salyeica

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A CDC reference that I now can't find had the 'Rona listed at 0.07-0.09 micron particle size. The above link from the NIH has it at 0.1micron. Even an N95 (0.2micron filtration) ain't catchin' the 'Rona. PAPR hoods have a HEPA filtration unit. Again 0.2micron.


0.07-0.1 < 0.2
If I remember correctly, the Rona virus attaches to aerosol particles emitted during a cough/sneeze. Those particles are large enough to get filtered by the masks.
 

teamRR

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It does, but they’re impossible to find. R100 and P100 masks would be even better, as they filter out oil particulates as well

P100s you can find, as well as the half masks for the filters which is obviously needed, but you are talking $30 to $60 for those setups, isn't covid related just is the cost..

Trouble is certain places forbid them due to valves but I don't think a typical northeast supermarket, Walmart, etc would balk at it. If you are worried for yourself, that and a face shield would be the PPE to use IMO.
 

Salyeica

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P100s you can find, as well as the half masks for the filters which is obviously needed, but you are talking $30 to $60 for those setups, isn't covid related just is the cost..

Trouble is certain places forbid them due to valves but I don't think a typical northeast supermarket, Walmart, etc would balk at it. If you are worried for yourself, that and a face shield would be the PPE to use IMO.
Yes, the dual filter half face mask is definitely more readily available, but the N95 style one: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company...-P100-20-EA-Case/?N=5002385+3294776418&rt=rud is nowhere to be found.
 

cathouse01

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If I remember correctly, the Rona virus attaches to aerosol particles emitted during a cough/sneeze. Those particles are large enough to get filtered by the masks.
That is my understanding also. To actually filter out the virus particles you need some sort of very high efficiency filter. With out mechanical ventilation assistance I’m not sure you’ed even be able to breath through a filter that could actually catch the virus particle itself. Ether that or you would need a very large filter area, certainly nothing you could just fit on your face. Again it’s all about cost/benefit ratios, it’s all a matter of trade offs. As far as I’m concerned, a properly fitted N95 (or KN95, though they are usually over the ear and therefore harder to fit properly) reduces the chances of me catching COVID-19 sufficiently to make going through the effort of wearing one worthwhile. Any of the more intrusive solutions don’t add to my decreased risk sufficiently to make them seem worth it to me. Nothing is going to 100% effective (see all the health care professional who, despite the best PPE, caught it anyway). YMMV
 

gene

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Wont be long until some people think that wearing a full fledged pamper across your face is minimal.:(
You be able to breath well or function at 100% as a result because your disoriented all the time but they are covid safe somewhere, sometime.
 

ront02769

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Friend who is respiratory therapist says that last spring he was wearing on of those blue cheapo masks OVER an n95, not for filtration but to keep shit like Snot, blood, exhalation stuff, etc from getting on the n95.
 
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