Keeping a gun in your vehicle ?

[Woodswalker]

Do any of you MA. residents out there keep a rifle , shotgun or handgun stored permanently in your vehicle ? If the vehicle was stolen wouldn't you be screwed ? I'm not talking about the cost of the gun .
I keep emergency supplies in my truck - a bob , road repair kit , first aid , etc. . I'd like to keep an inexpensive gun in my truck too but I'm afraid of what the law would do if my truck was stolen with a gun in it .

 

[FPrice]

I think that it is safe to say that in most Massachusetts jurisdictions, if this happened, you would be screwed.

The safest, most legal course of action is to NOT keep a firearm in your car. If you find yourself in a survival situation away from home, first stay alive, and then look for a legal way to acquire a firearm, if the need arises.

 

[drgrant]

Even if the storage is legal, you -might- get screwed via the
"unsuitable person" funhouse, but it depends on your issuing
authority. If your permit is issued out of a red town there is a
decent chance you could kiss it goodbye if you had to report a
gun stolen. It might still be a problem even with "green" IAs
but the chief or whoever may be more compassionate, but there
are no guarantees, unless you know your IA well enough to know
how they would respond.


-Mike

 

[peterpressure]

When I was applying for my LTC, I discussed with one of the Firearms lawyers mentioned on NES about leaving a handgun in my car while I am inside my employer, so that during lunch or after work I can go to the range.

He rightly advised against this practice and agreed its low risk, but if my vehicle was stolen it would surely lead to a loss of my LTC and possibly a big headache if the Handgun was then used in a crime.

 

[Cross-X]

I think that it is safe to say that in most Massachusetts jurisdictions, if this happened, you would be screwed.

The safest, most legal course of action is to NOT keep a firearm in your car. If you find yourself in a survival situation away from home, first stay alive, and then look for a legal way to acquire a firearm, if the need arises.

Just make sure to have your survival scenario somewhere near Fred's place.

 

[FPrice]

Just make sure to have your survival scenario somewhere near Fred's place.

Actually I hope it is near your place. That way I can get an assault weapon and an assault lawyer at the same time!

 

[ateamrob]

just carry your concealed handgun on your person and wherever you go the guns goes.... that obviously includes the vehicle..

simple....

 

[Cross-X]

Actually I hope it is near your place. That way I can get an assault weapon and an assault lawyer at the same time!

Mr. Frosty, I have _no_ assault weapons at my place.

As I'm sure you know but must have forgotten, an assault weapon is a machine gun capable of semi-auto, burst, or full auto depending on how the rifleman wishes to shoot it, and how the rifle is set up.

Let's just keep it simple and meet at Fred's.

 

[FPrice]

Mr. Frosty, I have _no_ assault weapons at my place.

What about the assault lawyer?

 

[Executive]

just carry your concealed handgun on your person and wherever you go the guns goes.... that obviously includes the vehicle..

simple....

Not so simple. I know someone on this forum who is a high school teacher. They frown on CCW in schools...

 

[Alchemist]

just carry your concealed handgun on your person and wherever you go the guns goes.... that obviously includes the vehicle..

simple....

There are places and certain dress codes that would not allow you to conceal a weapons on your body. Of course, there are obvious things to like the unexpected trip to a location where you're not supposed to have a gun like a post office. Unfortunately, Mass makes it so tough sometimes that it's sometimes better just to leave it at home.

 

[Big_Red]

I do leave my gun in my truck sometimes. It cannot be helped. Most often I have do it when I go to pick my daughter up from school. Since I carry all day, it would be too much hassle to have to go home and disarm first. With this said, I never leave the gun "unattended" for more than 30 minutes.

 

[JimR]

Do any of you MA. residents out there keep a rifle , shotgun or handgun stored permanently in your vehicle ? If the vehicle was stolen wouldn't you be screwed ? I'm not talking about the cost of the gun .
I keep emergency supplies in my truck - a bob , road repair kit , first aid , etc. . I'd like to keep an inexpensive gun in my truck too but I'm afraid of what the law would do if my truck was stolen with a gun in it .

You could be charged with illegally leaving a firearm in an un-occupied vehicle. If it is loaded that may be another offense. If the gun gets used in a crime you could probably face other charges like endangerment or abetting a criminal. In this state they would throw the book at you, take away your permit and guns too.

 

[Scrivener]

You could be charged with illegally leaving a firearm in an un-occupied vehicle. If it is loaded that may be another offense.

It is not illegal under MA law to leave a gun unattended in a motor vehicle. It is illegal only if the gun is not secured as required by statute; i.e., in a "locked container." That can be a car trunk, a hard case or even a ballistic nylon "range rug" or bag.

Whether it is prudent to leave a gun in a vehicle indefinitely, as seems to be the OP's issue, is another question. I would not do it.

 

[drgrant]

You could be charged with illegally leaving a firearm in an un-occupied vehicle.

Please show us the charge for this (and the other things you
mentioned) as vetted by MGL's, etc. We're all ears. There are
legal ways in which to store/transport firearms in vehicles, even in
MA. Note, of course, that "legal" and "smart" are not always one
and the same. There still is that whole "unsuitable person"
cloud of fun- but that has nothing to do with "criminal charges".

-Mike

 

[JimR]

Please show us the charge for this (and the other things you
mentioned) as vetted by MGL's, etc. We're all ears. There are
legal ways in which to store/transport firearms in vehicles, even in
MA. Note, of course, that "legal" and "smart" are not always one
and the same. There still is that whole "unsuitable person"
cloud of fun- but that has nothing to do with "criminal charges".

-Mike

I should have said loaded handgun. I have a friend that is a police officer. He told me it is illegal to leave one in an un-occupied car. I will call him on it tomorrow.

Wasn't there a local police officer that got himself in trouble for leaving a loaded hangun in his personal car at his house? The car was broken into and the gun was stolen. This was just a few weeks ago in Ma.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Your local issuing authority will likely look at each of these scenarios very differently when deciding whether or not to renew your permit:

A. I locked my gun in my car while I went into school to pick up my daughter, and my car and gun were stolen.

b. I permanently leave a gun in my car and my car and gun were stolen out of my driveway.

 

[ronbok]

It is not illegal under MA law to leave a gun unattended in a motor vehicle. It is illegal only if the gun is not secured as required by statute; i.e., in a "locked container." That can be a car trunk, a hard case or even a ballistic nylon "range rug" or bag.

Whether it is prudent to leave a gun in a vehicle indefinitely, as seems to be the OP's issue, is another question. I would not do it.

I'm glad to see this post, saves me from saying it as well. However, I believe there's one additional item. It has to be "in a locked container" and unloaded. Right? It's my current understanding that you cannot leave a loaded weapon in your vehicle even if it's in a locked container. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[kevin9]

Here's the relevant M.G.L C. 140: S. 131C (hint: the GOAL web site law reference page is a good place to start such investigations):

Section 131C. (a) No person carrying a loaded firearm under a Class A license issued under section 131 or 131F shall carry the same in a vehicle unless such firearm while carried therein is under the direct control of such person. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(b) No person carrying a firearm under a Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(c) No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a Class A or Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.

IANAL, but as I read it handguns and large capacity rifles and shotguns must be unloaded for transport (Class A carry not withstanding). It's not clear here what the law is WRT transportation of non-large capacity riles and shotguns. Maybe there is another law or reg elsewhere that I've not yet found, or I'm not reading it right. Thoughts?

p.s. Before someone goes off please note that "firearm" in this context (M.G.L.) means "handgun" (C. 140: S. 121)

 

[M1911]

I should have said loaded handgun. I have a friend that is a police officer. He told me it is illegal to leave one in an un-occupied car. I will call him on it tomorrow.

Ask him for a citation of the MGL. I've heard more than a few whoppers that licensing officers have allegedly told applications.

 

[JimR]

I talked with my police officer friend this morning about this topic. Here is what he had to say on the subject. It is illegal to store a loaded hangun in your vehicle. It is illegal to store it in the glove box as it is not considered a secure compartment. A secured compartment is considered to be a bolted down lock box under the seat or in the trunk. He also stated that some departments will have their own interpetation of this and may consider a glove box secure. He said that there is no exact definition of a secured compartment. He also stated that it is illegal to store a loaded shotgun or rifle in your vehicle even if it is in a locked compartment or gun case. Fish and Game laws also state this fact.

On another note and topic of licenseing. We got to talking about LTC's and the way they are being handed out with such restrictions as to "Target and Sporting" " Business Hours Only" "Worked Related Only" and any other stupid combination of the above. His and my interpetation of the law and many others in power is that a LTC is a LTC. There are no such restrictions to it by law. Up until the latest license change anyway. There was no such restrictions for any type of license. The new LTC licenses that came out with the new computer system now have a space on it for restrictions. This is just another unjust use of police power to restrict the rights of a person to carry concealed. Your thoughts on this subject would be greatly appreciated? Maybe I should even start a new thread just for this topic. As far as the "Target and Sporting" LTC. He told me about an individual that was stopped for speeding. The gentleman told the officer he had a hangun on his possession. The LTC said "Target and Sporting" The individual was not on his way to or from a range nor was he on his way to or from a hunting trip. They took his pistol and LTC away from him. The individual went to court and fought the citation and won. The judge said that a LTC is just that. That there are no restrictions on it on the books at that time. Now if someone could tell me if that has changed I'd be happy to hear about it. My friend said he knows of no new legislation changing the LTC to be restricted.

 

[ateamrob]

Your local issuing authority will likely look at each of these scenarios very differently when deciding whether or not to renew your permit:

A. I locked my gun in my car while I went into school to pick up my daughter, and my car and gun were stolen.

b. I permanently leave a gun in my car and my car and gun were stolen out of my driveway.

this is correct... since "their laws" (not ours... THEIRS.) make it illegal to carry in a PO or a school there is 0% choice of anything else to do other than lock it in the vehicle for the few minutes it takes to do your business for those of us that carry concealed. Going home to disarm is not an option when you are miles away from home. So yes.... LE Officers I would hope would certainly understand the predicament and situation based on their own laws and regulations... This is where a little bit of "common sence" and basic moral understanding of the "good guy" doing what is right comes into play..
yes.. yes.. I know... not always does common sence or doing the right thing get rewarded in todays world.... [sad2]
however this is how I do business when I carry. It stays on my person at ALL TIMES except when I go to the PO or to pick my kids up from school... then it is secured in the vehicle and my trips are as quick as possible... and to add to that, I try and get my PO business and kids picked up from school done ahead of time and make sure I am not armed so I dont have to worry about this situation in the first place. But if I have no choice.... this is how I personlly handle it.

 

[M1911]

I talked with my police officer friend this morning about this topic. Here is what he had to say on the subject. It is illegal to store a loaded hangun in your vehicle. It is illegal to store it in the glove box as it is not considered a secure compartment. A secured compartment is considered to be a bolted down lock box under the seat or in the trunk. He also stated that some departments will have their own interpetation of this and may consider a glove box secure. He said that there is no exact definition of a secured compartment. He also stated that it is illegal to store a loaded shotgun or rifle in your vehicle even if it is in a locked compartment or gun case. Fish and Game laws also state this fact.

Sorry, but your friend is either making it up or repeating what someone told him who is making it up. Call him back and ask him for a citation to MGL or a court decision to back up his assertion. You don't have to challenge him on it. Just tell him that you are really curious about the details of the law and would like to read it for yourself, so could he point you towards the appropriate citation.

 

[Cross-X]

What about the assault lawyer?

Have you been talking to my ex-girlfriends?

 

[codenamepaul]

this is correct... since "their laws" (not ours... THEIRS.) make it illegal to carry in a PO or a school there is 0% choice of anything else to do other than lock it in the vehicle for the few minutes it takes to do your business for those of us that carry concealed. Going home to disarm is not an option when you are miles away from home. So yes.... LE Officers I would hope would certainly understand the predicament and situation based on their own laws and regulations... This is where a little bit of "common sence" and basic moral understanding of the "good guy" doing what is right comes into play..
yes.. yes.. I know... not always does common sence or doing the right thing get rewarded in todays world.... [sad2]
however this is how I do business when I carry. It stays on my person at ALL TIMES except when I go to the PO or to pick my kids up from school... then it is secured in the vehicle and my trips are as quick as possible... and to add to that, I try and get my PO business and kids picked up from school done ahead of time and make sure I am not armed so I dont have to worry about this situation in the first place. But if I have no choice.... this is how I personlly handle it.

Agreed- I also see mentioned that carry in P.O. was prohibited. Is that a MA law? I may have missed that one.

 

[drgrant]

I talked with my police officer friend this morning about this topic. Here is what he had to say on the subject. It is illegal to store a loaded hangun in your vehicle.

Well, at least in terms of transport, he's correct. Storage is
another issue but I would maintain that "loaded handgun storage"
in a vehicle is not a good idea, even if it is only storage and not
transportation. (mainly because it would make it a lot harder
to argue that you didn't transport it like that.... ) This topic
in general has been pretty much beaten to death on here, if
you do some searching, you will find a lot of opinions on it
by Scriv, Cross-X, and others.

The Glove Box thing? IMO that's almost universally
bad, based on what I've heard from several reliable
sources. Any gun lawyer in MA will basically tell you "not only
NO, but f**k no!" when it comes to glove boxes, locked or
otherwise. (I am thinking that there might be case law against
glove boxes constituting secure containers... )

Now if someone could tell me if that has changed I'd be happy to hear about it. My friend said he knows of no new legislation changing the LTC to be restricted.

It used to be there was some ambiguity, but not with the new
(although at this point its a few years OLD!) licensing reform.
"Reason for Issuance" is now "Restriction" and there is no more
ambiguity. You can take that to the bank. If your friend
doesn't know about that, I would stop listening to him, LE status
or otherwise. There is a law on the books about "carrying
against restriction" with a penalty of loss of license and a fine.
IIRC it is not a "felony" or anything like that, however... but still
pretty steep nonetheless.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

this is correct... since "their laws" (not ours... THEIRS.) make it illegal to carry in a PO

Post Offices aren't barred by MGL, that's a federal issue thats
under constant dispute. If one considers all the federal law/code
involved, CCW in a post office is, on its face, arguably legal, but
there hasn't really been a test case for it to "prove" that CCW is
a "lawful purpose" as mentioned in the relevant part of federal
law, as being an exception to the "guns in post offices" thing.

-Mike

 

[codenamepaul]

Post Offices aren't barred by MGL, that's a federal issue thats
under constant dispute. If one considers all the federal law/code
involved, CCW in a post office is, on its face, arguably legal, but
there hasn't really been a test case for it to "prove" that CCW is
a "lawful purpose" as mentioned in the relevant part of federal
law, as being an exception to the "guns in post offices" thing.

-Mike

That's what I thought.

 

[JimR]

Sorry, but your friend is either making it up or repeating what someone told him who is making it up. Call him back and ask him for a citation to MGL or a court decision to back up his assertion. You don't have to challenge him on it. Just tell him that you are really curious about the details of the law and would like to read it for yourself, so could he point you towards the appropriate citation.

I will ask him. He has been a good friend of mine for over 20 years and he is a police officer and a gun dealer. I surely do not want to ruin my friendship with him after all this time. If I questioned him on this it would in fact be a challenge as he knows me all too well. I've always trusted his work whenit came to gun issues and so far he has never led me down the wrong road.

So which part of this are you saying he is lying about? The storing of a loaded gun in your vehicle? The secured compartment? The target and sporting restrictions?

My past Chief of Police had also told me there was no such thing as a T&S restriction. He said he had read both volumes of the Firearms Law and could find anything in there saying any such thing. He also offered both volumes of the book for me to read. He said that there are sections in the book which contradict other sections of the book. Can anyone add anything to this statement?

 

[codenamepaul]

How about the lockable center console of my Jeep? It is not the glove box-there is a separate one, and it is bolted down.