Just got told my child is not allowed in the gun store

[RHJJ]

Who the hell in their right mind would open a new gun store in this commie crap hole? I was fully expecting Gartman to be that fs south until this AG BS. Now it's just depressing walking into a great shop that has to have a LEO room and a peon room, where the entry price is about 3k for any ar or ak type rifles. So god damn pissed!

Add in the presidential election and it would be a risky adventure.

 

[Smokewagon]

I've seen a dad and his two daughters who probably aren't more than 6 years old shooting balloons taped to the target cardboard at the range. It's the cutest thing and I couldn't be prouder of him for introducing his daughters to shooting. They're well behaved and he keeps an eye on them. They can have the range all day if they want.

If it was at Harvard it may have been me and my daughters. Both my little ones have been slaying balloons at Harvard for a while now. They absolutely love it and it seems like I have to buy balloons and .22 by the truckload when the weather warms up. Both have been going into gun stores and shooting since before they were as tall as the counter at most shops.

 

[slap shot]

 

[MachineHead]

If it was at Harvard it may have been me and my daughters. Both my little ones have been slaying balloons at Harvard for a while now. They absolutely love it and it seems like I have to buy balloons and .22 by the truckload when the weather warms up. Both have been going into gun stores and shooting since before they were as tall as the counter at most shops.

Yep, it's at Harvard and it's probably you. Keep up the good work!

 

[Thirty3]

I don't blame you, I would be pissed. My wife wasn't thrilled that I took our kids (under 6) to Collectors gallery. I told the kids in the store if Mommy asks, we went to the park. The guys in there laughed. She only found out cause when I drove by, they yelled out there's the gun store daddy took us to. She shook her head and wasn't too thrilled.

 

[JAD]

My son (age ~12, and a winner of a few shooting trophies at that time) was given essentially the same treatment at a now-closed LGS. He was told that him handling a shotgun would be an "unlawful transfer."

Never went back, now they're gone. Karma.

Depending on if this occurred after the passage of the Youth Handgun Safety Act, the clerk may have been misapplying an ATF interpretation related to that (applying it to a long gun when it only applies to handguns).

In short, the Youth Handgun Safety Act generally prohibits the possession by or transfer of handguns to persons under 18 with exemptions for (or to be transferred to temporarily) a handgun/handgun ammunition in certain very limited circumstances. Specifically, the minor must: (1) have written parental permission from a parent who is not a prohibited possessor under federal/state/local law (must be be in juveniles possession along with handgun) and (2) possess the handgun only for employment, farming/ranching, target shooting, hunting, or an instructional course.

(Other exemptions exist for military service, titular transfer via inheritance (but not physical possession), and for handguns taken up for self defense within the home or at an invited location)

ATF instructed dealers that handing a handgun to a person under/ allowing a person under 18 to examine a handgun was not covered under any of the exemptions, and that doing so would be a violation of the Youth Handgun Safety Act (a felony).

 

[JAD]

Sadly these days with "see something, say something" and police love to over-charge (or push 209As), society has gotten weird.

- Last Summer (not broiling heat like this year) a 7 yo was seen walking by herself (daytime) in my town square, resulting in a busybody 911 call. They had multiple officers trying to locate the young girl and then finding parents/grandparents. All heard over the scanner, unsure if charges were filed.

- I do recall reading (don't know where) that leaving a child under x yrs alone in a car was child endangerment. Unsure if a number is codified in statutory law, case law or merely an overstepping of authority by police and DYS.

Even if DYS "investigates" and doesn't charge anyone, they will be snooping and watching that family forever and making their lives a living hell.

There isn't a statutory threshold in Mass for age to be left alone in the car, rather the discretionary ability of authorities to use child endangerment laws.

Maybe Mass DCF (DCF investigates allegations of abuse/neglect committed against children, DYS is the Commonwealth's juvenile justice agency) is more efficient than Connecticut DCF, but the threshold before DCF intervention results in a child's removal is pretty high. A lot of reasonable reports of abuse/neglect result in DCF involvement (check-ins with offers of resources, etc...) can last for as little as a few months before DCF ceases to be involved. In Connecticut, cases that get the more long term DCF attention (but which don't warrant removal) seem to get occasional visits (usually scheduled) from the social worker and periodic check-ins with the school or service providers involved in the child's life (oftentimes by mail).

 

[JAD]

Thanks for the follow up stuff Len, I'll dig in further and see what I can find. It sounds though like the PDs either do not know about or are ignoring Nebel vs Commonwealth, or these are cases of more extended periods where the child actually faced "substantial risk of serious bodily injury" (per the C.265 § 13L wording).

In all fairness, Nebel did not involve MGL c. 265 s. 13L. The court ruled that Nevel leaving the infant in the car, while traveling a short distance away, for an indeterminent time, intending to return shortly, did not constitute abandonment of an infant under 10 (MGL c. 119 s. 39).

 

[FrugalFannie]

I leave when they come to the range, don't like shooting next to them.

Why? My son started shooting at 10. I started instructing others when he was 12? If we were introducing friends to shooting and there was more than 1, I would show one of them how to handle the firearm, get them shooting and comfortable, and then put my son in charge as "safety officer" while I instructed the next person. My son is and always has been one of the most safety conscious when it comes to gun handling (other things, not so much).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Scott7980]

Because I don't like kids

 

[jdubois]

In all fairness, Nebel did not involve MGL c. 265 s. 13L.

While they did not rule on C.265 § 13L, because it was not the charge brought before them, they do specifically cite it in the footnotes for their statement that "the Legislature could have written a more extensive child endangerment statute." There is no question that the court opinion in that case was that simply leaving a child in a car for a short period would not be sufficient evidence to charge someone under C.265 § 13L.

 

[W.E.C]

Kid well Behaved, stays by your side, doesn't touch stuff? Welcome you awesome parent you!!! I'll Interact with you and your child. Probably try to sell you his first 22 bolt gun cheap.

Misbehaved? Touches all the things? Takes advantage of your distracted looking at guns? Looks like a liability? He's getting a free six pack of Red Bull and a puppy and the door.

Dude , ya just described me, but I never have been kicked out, though I have been in a few twilight zone shops where I swear I'm invisible.

 

[Mountain]

Cue the new Mauron directive that 18 and under are prohibited from entering an establishment that sells guns, ammo, and Pop Tarts that can be chewed into the shape of a gun.

 

[Oldarmy]

Because I don't like kids

Well I'm sure they don't like you either.

 

[VTJPM]

Also, everyone is saying "We need to get the next generation into shooting!". Well, guess what, that kid IS the next generation and now he has a memory of being shunned at a gun shop instead of being welcomed.

Gotta say, I've children who are all grown up now. Never a problem going to shops or shows. All licensed now, all enjoy the hobby/sport. Not a good way to keep it going IMO. Try to keep the younger people interested, it's a life time passion.

 

[n1oty]

Gotta say, I've children who are all grown up now. Never a problem going to shops or shows. All licensed now, all enjoy the hobby/sport. Not a good way to keep it going IMO. Try to keep the younger people interested, it's a life time passion.

This

 

[Scott7980]

[video]https://youtu.be/dJHXGuGKxmk[/video]

 

[drgrant]

Yaaawnn. Oh, this threads still open?

unsub from it if you don't like it

 

[robjax]

why end the thread?. This should be left open until the store owner responds. We only have one side of the story. Lets wait to hear the other side.

 

[browncoat]

Depending on if this occurred after the passage of the Youth Handgun Safety Act, the clerk may have been misapplying an ATF interpretation related to that (applying it to a long gun when it only applies to handguns).

In short, the Youth Handgun Safety Act generally prohibits the possession by or transfer of handguns to persons under 18 with exemptions for (or to be transferred to temporarily) a handgun/handgun ammunition in certain very limited circumstances. Specifically, the minor must: (1) have written parental permission from a parent who is not a prohibited possessor under federal/state/local law (must be be in juveniles possession along with handgun) and (2) possess the handgun only for employment, farming/ranching, target shooting, hunting, or an instructional course.

(Other exemptions exist for military service, titular transfer via inheritance (but not physical possession), and for handguns taken up for self defense within the home or at an invited location)

ATF instructed dealers that handing a handgun to a person under/ allowing a person under 18 to examine a handgun was not covered under any of the exemptions, and that doing so would be a violation of the Youth Handgun Safety Act (a felony).

Bullshit like the Youth Handgun Safety Act makes me incredibly mad. They pretend that the reason is to impact gang violence when they know that rules like this only make it more difficult to train kids and have 0 impact on kids in gangs.

 

[Chappy7]

 

[MisterHappy]

Probably because kidnappers have a hard time fitting them into their vehicles due to all the bubble wrap.

At least one of mine would have more likely have been sharp and pointy, what with all the pocket knives.

 

[PeterGV]

I read 266 replies just waiting to see if the owner of the shop was going to respond.

THAT was pretty dumb of me, huh?

 

[tcarter01]

Put a fedora on him and tell them he's a midget...

 

[In God We Trust]

I read 266 replies just waiting to see if the owner of the shop was going to respond.

THAT was pretty dumb of me, huh?

The shop owner is wise. No matter what he were to come here and say, it would only create another 20 pages of vitriol.

 

[71montess]

20 pages of twisted panties you might say.

 

[Len-2A Training]

The shop owner is wise. No matter what he were to come here and say, it would only create another 20 pages of vitriol.

True, but in this case there is no defense!

 

[Gibbs]

Heh.

I hadn't checked this thread in a long while.I just checked, but...I had figured Shovelheddrew's child was 27 years old by now.

 

[CaseHardened]

Heh.

I hadn't checked this thread in a long while.I just checked, but...I had figured Shovelheddrew's child was 27 years old by now.

And I am dead.

As is Cap't Flint

 

[AHM]

It looks like he actually strikes sparks on the counter
with the tip of the carving knife at 2m36s 1m36s.