Just got told my child is not allowed in the gun store

[Len-2A Training]

Is this a recent law? Do you have a cite?

I know it's not allowed for a bus driver to do it (606 CMR 7.13(4)(j)), but I don't know anything else pertaining to it in the MGL or CMR. Also, Nebel vs Commonwealth (2003) would seem to indicate that leaving a child in a vehicle for a short duration is indeed legal: "If this activity, albeit ill-advised, were meant to be criminalized, the Legislature could have written a more extensive child endangerment statute."

JD, a fair question but I'm going to beg out with just some basic info as I don't have time right now to dig in to the gritty details.

Most of what I'm personally aware of is the calls I hear on the scanner from various PDs in a ~35mile radius of me when someone calls in an "unattended child". Oftentimes I hear them respond and advise child endangerment charges.

Here's the state website where you can really dig in and get the dirt.
http://www.mass.gov/courts/case-legal-res/law-lib/laws-by-subj/about/childabuse.html

And here is a law office webpage (found with Google, no idea who he is) where he states essentially what I've stated (note his comment on charges/DYS involvement wrt "unattended child" issues).
http://www.mymassachusettsdefenselawyer.com/massachusetts-criminal-charges/child-endangerment/

 

[jdubois]

JD, a fair question but I'm going to beg out with just some basic info as I don't have time right now to dig in to the gritty details.

Thanks for the follow up stuff Len, I'll dig in further and see what I can find. It sounds though like the PDs either do not know about or are ignoring Nebel vs Commonwealth, or these are cases of more extended periods where the child actually faced "substantial risk of serious bodily injury" (per the C.265 § 13L wording).

 

[Paul455]

Classic did not read thread post.

Kid did not enter store...

No, I can read, at a third grade level.....

The shop owner probably had a few bad experiences with unruly kids.

PS - Do you have or had kids?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Sadly these days with "see something, say something" and police love to over-charge (or push 209As), society has gotten weird.

- Last Summer (not broiling heat like this year) a 7 yo was seen walking by herself (daytime) in my town square, resulting in a busybody 911 call. They had multiple officers trying to locate the young girl and then finding parents/grandparents. All heard over the scanner, unsure if charges were filed.

- I do recall reading (don't know where) that leaving a child under x yrs alone in a car was child endangerment. Unsure if a number is codified in statutory law, case law or merely an overstepping of authority by police and DYS.

Even if DYS "investigates" and doesn't charge anyone, they will be snooping and watching that family forever and making their lives a living hell.

 

[snax]

Something probably happened. Probably some Hillary supporter saw a kid go in there from the parking lot and called the town. Maybe his business insurance company caught wind that there were kids in there and threatened the owner. I had a surprise insurance inspection once, and they dropped my building insurance because my 100 year old railings which were grandfathered, were 6 inches too low. I called they city, they came out, looked, and said they were fully in compliance.
My guess, is that he either couldn't or didn't want to tell the real reason. He would obviously know the bad word of mouth that would get out. Last time I saw a guy open a box of ammo, load up and shoot somebody in a gun store it was THE TERMINATOR

 

[ioman2]

Has anyone contacted the shop for clairification?

 

[EJFudd]

The shop owner probably had a few bad experiences with unruly kids.

PS - Do you have or had kids?

Yep... most likely. It then results in 22 pages (so far) of NES hate thrown at the smallest of small time gun dealers... a one-man "hole-in-the-wall" show that I'm betting does less business in a year than FSGuns does in one slow day. And if he is stupid enough to show up here to defend himself, we all know he will be crucified and mocked to the Nth degree no matter the explanation.

Come on folks. Please! I'm not thrilled with this tiny little shop either, although it is all about (high) prices with me. But do we have to destroy every dealer's business over everything?

Yes, it would have bothered me too. I would have left (maybe for good) and shopped elsewhere. But honestly, it wouldn't have been the end of the world for me... and it certainly wouldn't have been worth trying to ruin the guy's struggling little gun shop business.

 

[Nick Fury]

No, I can read, at a third grade level.....

The shop owner probably had a few bad experiences with unruly kids.

PS - Do you have or had kids?[/QUOTE

The situation as presented is far different than the unruly kid scenario. for most thats a no brainer. Justified or not the solution does nothing but shoot himself in the foot. I think thats what is being discussed at this point in the thread.

I have 2 young children therefore hold the nessessary permits to comment...

 

[drgrant]

Yep... most likely. It then results in 22 pages (so far)

It's 6 pages for normal folks. (you can fix this in the settings panel)

and it certainly wouldn't have been worth trying to ruin the guy's struggling little gun shop business.

I really doubt this is going to ruin the guy's business. Children at a gun shop are a relatively rare sight, particularly in MA. (I've seen proportionally way more kids in NH gun shops. )

NES has had far more legitimate jihads against places like NSF and the RAT, and both of those guys are still open. I doubt this will be any different. Hell the gun room was universally panned as the worst shop in MA on this board and it took the owner dying and several years for that place to close.

-Mike

 

[mikeyp]

I know quite a bit with regards to that place and how business is handled. Again, doesn't surprise me.

Going by this post earlier:

Never had an issue bringing my son (1.5 years) into any shop, other than a similar encounter about 7-8 months ago at this store in Norwood. My son was ~1 at the time, and I was carrying him. As soon as I walked in the store, I was greeted politely by the only person in the shop behind the desk (I am assuming it's the owner), and then he imitates a childs voice and says "Daddy why did you bring me into a gun shop", or something to that effect, insinuating that's what my kid was thinking. I thought the comment was odd at the time, because I figured that if he were to say anything it would've been "Ooh daddy, I want that .22". He didn't have what I went cash in hand for (p938), so I left empty handed, but now I won't go back ever knowing that maybe he really just doesn't like kids, and I always have my son with me.

Holy hell...

 

[not new guy]

Anyone have any remaining questions about why Norwood Armory doesn't want kids in the store? It ain't about insurance, and we can't pin it on Hillary supporters.

 

[jdubois]

Last Summer (not broiling heat like this year) a 7 yo was seen walking by herself (daytime) in my town square, resulting in a busybody 911 call. They had multiple officers trying to locate the young girl and then finding parents/grandparents. All heard over the scanner, unsure if charges were filed.

This crap frustrates the hell out of me. Child abductions in this country are at an all time low. From the Polly Klaas Foundation: "Only about 100 children are kidnapped each year in the stereotypical stranger abductions you hear about in the news. About half of these 100 children come home." There are 73 Million kids in the US (www.childstats.gov). That means there's a 0.000137% chance of your kid getting kidnapped while out and about. Statistically, your kid is 24 times more likely to be hit by lightning than abducted by a stranger. It's about even odds they'll get hit by a meteor. We need to get over our unrealistic fears and let children become independent and responsible again. Otherwise, we're just breeding liberals.

This is the point we've gotten to:

http://www.wfsb.com/story/25982048/bristol-mother-charged-with-leaving-child-unattended-in-car

An 11 year old decided to wait in the car instead of going into the store with her mom. Nothing even remotely bad happened (or reasonably could have been expected to happen). Mother got charged anyway. WTF is wrong with people? I've left my ten year old in the car for a few minutes in this exact same scenario plenty of times, simply because he asked to stay, and I do not at all feel guilty about it. If some busybody wants to call the cops because my boy is quietly reading his book alone in a parked car, they can bite me. Sometimes I stay in the car, and make him go buy the milk or whatever. I guess I'm probably a monster.

Unsure if a number is codified in statutory law, case law or merely an overstepping of authority by police and DYS.

I know what my vote would be...

/rant

 

[Len-2A Training]

JD, we are both on the same page.

At ~8-10 yrs old I was riding my bike on Washington St (major roadway) in Quincy downtown from where I lived, ~1.5 miles, went to Napoli Pizza on Hancock St., movies downtown, shopping, etc. No cell phones, my Mother knew basically that I was "somewhere" and to return for dinner. Nobody cared/got concerned. I grew up and survived as an independent person. Today's snowflakes honestly don't stand a chance of ever being independent.

Tragically sad.

But police and DYS can absolutely destroy a family. They hate "free range" parents that allow us to do as I did growing up.

 

[EJFudd]

It's 6 pages for normal folks. (you can fix this in the settings panel)

I have a relatively slow connection. 10 posts per page is plenty, especially for content rich threads.

Hell the gun room was universally panned as the worst shop in MA on this board and it took the owner dying and several years for that place to close.

Hadn't gone there in over 30 years at the point where it closed.

I do believe the RAT has suffered somewhat for his sins. And the recent big NES jihad aside, NSF has always been its own worst enemy.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

That means there's a 0.000137% chance of your kid getting kidnapped while out and about. Statistically, your kid is 24 times more likely to be hit by lightning than a

Probably because kidnappers have a hard time fitting them into their vehicles due to all the bubble wrap.

 

[Ink]

I keep free stickers in the register for the kids and h20 for puppies in the store

 

[tuna]

Hell the gun room was universally panned as the worst shop in MA on this board and it took the owner dying and several years for that place to close.

The gun room in Shrewsbury? I loved that place. Haven't been there in 10 years or so, I think I am the only one who ever got good treatment and services there, according to the internet. Then again, I started going there with my dad when I was 8.

 

[71montess]

This thread sounds like a big mom's meeting. What a bunch of pansies.

 

[greencobra]

This thread sounds like a big mom's meeting. What a bunch of pansies.

Yep, time to close it out....goin' nowhere.

 

[Len-2A Training]

The gun room in Shrewsbury? I loved that place. Haven't been there in 10 years or so, I think I am the only one who ever got good treatment and services there, according to the internet. Then again, I started going there with my dad when I was 8.

When you were a kid, did John (big mustache) own it or was it owned by Peter Dowd (original owner)?

When I first went there it was on a corner on the same side as Spag's with a big bear in the window. Peter Dowd later moved across the street to that little strip mall, then sold it to John and dropped the retail biz for 10 years (non compete clause with the sale).

 

[tuna]

I don't know if peter owned it then. I vaguely recall it being across the street, but I really remember the big mustache and cowboy gunbelt on john. He drove an old mail jeep IIRC.

 

[Shovelheddrew]

This thread sounds like a big mom's meeting. What a bunch of pansies.

Did you just call me fat? /sarcasm

 

[FPrice]

Did you just call me fat? /sarcasm

No, it's just the dress you wear.

 

[Brian5582]

The suspense is killing me... I have chewed my fingernails to the root... Gonna have to start on my toes. I barely slept last night I kept reloading and reloading hoping for a reply.

 

[RHJJ]

Carl it is time for a Four Seasons south.

 

[hedgehound]

When you were a kid, did John (big mustache) own it or was it owned by Peter Dowd (original owner)?

When I first went there it was on a corner on the same side as Spag's with a big bear in the window. Peter Dowd later moved across the street to that little strip mall, then sold it to John and dropped the retail biz for 10 years (non compete clause with the sale).

I only remember John as an owner. I also liked the place, never was mistreated there.

 

[hedgehound]

I've brought my kids into gun shops with no problem. I'd be pissed if an owner asked them to leave.

Heh, I brought my sons to gun stores with me, no problem whatsoever. Well, now they bring me to the gun shops...

 

[Shark_Cage]

240 posts. Unreal

 

[slap shot]

Carl it is time for a Four Seasons south.

Who the hell in their right mind would open a new gun store in this commie crap hole? I was fully expecting Gartman to be that fs south until this AG BS. Now it's just depressing walking into a great shop that has to have a LEO room and a peon room, where the entry price is about 3k for any ar or ak type rifles.

 

[EJFudd]

I only remember John as an owner. I also liked the place, never was mistreated there.

All I really remember about the place is that they tried to sell me a brand new stainless steel Smith & Wesson revolver (Model 64 or 65 - can't remember which) that was unsafe at any speed. The cylinder charge holes would not line up with the barrel. It wasn't even close. I hope the gun went back to S&W before a customer bought it or that would have been one awfully surprised and unhappy buyer.