I want one!!!

D

dreppucci007

Moderator
NES Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2005
Messages
13,168
Likes
261
Location
Life Free or Die
Feedback: 16 / 0 / 0
I want one of these! [lol]

811000_spec_sm.jpg


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=44369041
 
So, when are you leaving the PRM?
Seriously, what makes it better than a Bushmaster, DPMS, or other reasonably well made AR?
BTW, my DPMS LowPro shoots great & retails for ~$700.
 
Nothing says it's better than any other one...I just read about it and it looks and sounds cool! [lol]

I'm sadly am not too familiar with AR's...I'm slowly learning more about them due to the large interest on NES. [lol]
 
Ohhh, [roll]
So you're one of those guys who'd rather have a dozen nice guns than a hundred interesting ones?
(sniffs)
Prolly shoot fact'ry ammo too, dontcha?

[lol] [lol] [lol]
 
jhrosier said:
Ohhh, [roll]
So you're one of those guys who'd rather have a dozen nice guns than a hundred interesting ones?
(sniffs)
Click to expand...

Now, that's far from true. All I'm saying is that before joining up at NES, I barely knew what an AR was. Yes, I'm acting like a kid in Toys R Us seeing the new MP15 "ooo, I want one" in a whiney tone. So what? That doesn't mean I'd automatically go out and get a nice new gun over an interesting one that could use some work...All it meant was that it's new, it'll soon be coming to MA, and I wanted to point it out to everyone else. NES is all about us being able to learn from one another...I'm slowly learning about AR's...let me learn.

And to answer your other question...A little bit of factory and a little bit of my own reloads...Depends on the gun.
 
jhrosier said:
Ohhh, [roll]
So you're one of those guys who'd rather have a dozen nice guns than a hundred interesting ones?


[lol] [lol] [lol]
Click to expand...

Personally, I'd rather have one hundred interesting nice guns. 8)

Regards,
Chris
 
Speaking of AR's, my local FFL recently started offering Bushmaster uppers and lowers seperately. You can pick just about any combination of stocks and barrels. The prices looked reasonable so I don't think that there is too much extra cost. Sort of an instant custom gun.
Kinda makes me wish I needed another one [wink]

Wait a minute! I only have ONE... Shouldn't I have another, just in case...
Mebbe I can convince the wife that SHE needs one (in stead of the AK)
 
C-pher said:
jhrosier said:
Speaking of AR's, my local FFL recently started offering Bushmaster uppers and lowers seperately.
Click to expand...

You just teasing us, or are you going to tell us who that might be?


Geeze [roll]
Click to expand...
Nick's Sport Shop, Palmer, just off Mass Pike Exit 8.
Just a customer, but I've done business with Dick & Sue for 20 or so years, good people.

(added) I think he also has some Rock River uppers/lowers also.
I don't know too much about these but many folks seem to think highly of them.
 
dreppucci007 said:
Now, that's far from true. All I'm saying is that before joining up at NES, I barely knew what an AR was. Yes, I'm acting like a kid in Toys R Us seeing the new MP15 "ooo, I want one" in a whiney tone. So what? That doesn't mean I'd automatically go out and get a nice new gun over an interesting one that could use some work...All it meant was that it's new, it'll soon be coming to MA, and I wanted to point it out to everyone else. NES is all about us being able to learn from one another...I'm slowly learning about AR's...let me learn.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat as you. I don't know a lot about the ARs but they are growing on me big time... don't know why. But I might just get the impulse to go out an buy one some day... I'm not ashamed. [wink]
 
Lugnut said:
dreppucci007 said:
Now, that's far from true. All I'm saying is that before joining up at NES, I barely knew what an AR was. Yes, I'm acting like a kid in Toys R Us seeing the new MP15 "ooo, I want one" in a whiney tone. So what? That doesn't mean I'd automatically go out and get a nice new gun over an interesting one that could use some work...All it meant was that it's new, it'll soon be coming to MA, and I wanted to point it out to everyone else. NES is all about us being able to learn from one another...I'm slowly learning about AR's...let me learn.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat as you. I don't know a lot about the ARs but they are growing on me big time... don't know why. But I might just get the impulse to go out an buy one some day... I'm not ashamed. [wink]
Click to expand...

Don't feel bad. I have two just because I fell into them. I can take them somewhat apart. But forget it if I need to sight on in. I just don't understand it. LOL!!
 
Lugnut said:
...I'm in the same boat as you. I don't know a lot about the ARs but they are growing on me big time... don't know why. But I might just get the impulse to go out an buy one some day... I'm not ashamed. [wink]
Click to expand...
Y'know, you guys might want to try to hook up with some of the high-power match shooters. Those guys are apparently shooting out to 600 yds. with AR's and must know what it takes to make a good gun.
I mention this because I know of one fellow who sunk a lot of loot into a Colt upper that wouldn't shoot for beans [cry]
 
ive got two ARs and I love them. And Id rather have a few than a hundred.

Im a little rusty at the NCO pop quiz, but I believe the AR engages area targets out to 800 meters, and point to 560, with SS109.

You cant go wrong with an AR in my opinon.
 
jhrosier said:
Y'know, you guys might want to try to hook up with some of the high-power match shooters. Those guys are apparently shooting out to 600 yds. with AR's and must know what it takes to make a good gun.
Click to expand...

Ahh, I would not necessarilly assume that, no.

I guess it depends on how you define the phrase "good gun".

When the original M-16 first came out, it used a 55 grain bullet and a barrel with a rifle twist that would just barely stabilize it.

Being just barely stable, as soon as it hit a human body it would tumble and keyhole, causing devastating wounds.

However, being just barely stable, it also lacked target grade accuracy, which annoyed the boys at AMU (The Army Markmanship Unit) who immediately lobbied to begin improving it's accuracy - improved bullets of a different weight, a better barrel twist, etc.

They "improved" it so much that it's now wonderfully accurate at long ranges, and the bullet no longer tumbles but creates nice clean icepick type wounds. Oh, and we're now getting all sorts of complaints about how it has no stopping power on human adversaries.

But it's marvelously more accurate at long ranges on paper targets!

jhrosier said:
I mention this because I know of one fellow who sunk a lot of loot into a Colt upper that wouldn't shoot for beans [cry]
Click to expand...

My winter project has been to compile John Farnam's many quips into long documents that allow me to search them when I want to. Herewith some interesting observations from him, drawn from 2001 and 2002.

. . .I just completed a two-day Patrol rifle Course with a large PD on the West Coast. Everyone in the class used an AR-15, mostly Colts, a few Bushmasters.

Ammunition was generic Winchester. Each student expended nearly one thousand rounds.

We had a few failures to feed which were quickly reduced by the student, but no catastrophic breakdowns, save one. One student, a gunsmith no less, brought a tight-chambered (SAAMI), heavy-barreled, target rifle that started life as an AR-15, although it was difficult to tell by looking at it. It heated up and seized during the first hour of the class. We had to pull it off the line and give him a military surplus M-16, which worked fine for the duration. Any serious, autoloading rifle needs a NATO chamber. Only bolt guns should have SAAMI chambers.

. . .DPMS AR-15s are manufactured nearby, and we had several in the course. All functioned well, except for the ones that had their triggers "customized." All of them experienced continuous functional distress One went down completely.

Lesson: PLAY GUNS CANNOT DOUBLE AS SERIOUS GUNS. Military rifles are pretty well set up for serious fighting as the come from the factory. Attempts to "customize" triggers and "accurize" the system are ill advised if the weapon is to be put to serious use. Increases in accuracy from such modifications are negligible, but compromises in reliability are disastrous, as we saw this weekend.

. . .Sage rifle comments from a friend in the Philippines:

"AR15's have always been popular here. They were made locally from 1983-1987 under license from Colt. Most are still in active service. The black market is the ONLY source for these rifles, as none can be transferred legally.

Connected ("qualified') civilians are allowed to possess and even carry them outside their homes. Many are thus ditching their MP5s and UZIs. Pent up demand, coupled with news photos of US soldiers armed with M4s during their local exercises, has driven the cost of these black-market ARs through the roof.

In the last few months, among my friends I've seen every conceivable permutation of this rifle! Anything from an eight-inch barrel to a twenty-four inch, heavy barrel, with every imaginable gimmick glued, screwed, taped, or pinned onto them.

You Americans are not the only gimmick-happy race in the world! Most folks here too just can't seem to be content with any species of 'stock' rifle. They predictably load them up with widgets until they weigh more than an M-14.

'Accuracy' jobs are just as common. Like you, I've seen nearly all of these modified guns malfunction with monotonous regularity. Curiously, their demonstrated unreliability is usually lost on their naive owners. Some things never change!

Standing in stark contrast are full-time military people I know whose lives literally depend on the reliability of their individual weapons every time they go on an operation. Most of my military friends have been on many. Their M-16s are all stock, 'plain vanilla' as you would say. These men have survived numerous, live contacts with the enemy. Their rifles work, every time. Those with unreliable rifles are no longer with us!"

Lesson: Take this advice from the mouth of one who knows. You need to be serious about your "serious" weapons.

. . .On the AR-15/M-16/M-4/etc from a friend who manufacturers guns:

"As a result of heavy use, M-16 upper receiver aluminum forgings can begin to 'oval out' where the barrel is installed. Accuracy suffers greatly, and the weapon can come apart.

On the lower receiver (also an aluminum forging), the holes for the hammer pin are also famous for 'ovaling,' to the point pins walk out.

The M16 bolt also has problems. Locking lugs next to the extractor begin to crack around 6,000 rounds, especially if the rifle is shot on full auto. The other point of bolt weakness is the cam pin hole. The bolt breaks at the cam pin hole between 6,000 and 10,000 rounds.

Most civilians will never shoot their AR15s enough for any of these problems to develop. However, your students who attend course after course should be inspecting their arms regularly.

Our government, fully aware of the forgoing, has decided to get bids on (can you believe it?) shot counters, so they can know how many rounds have gone through each rifle. This is ridiculous! It is time for a long-overdue change."

. . . On urban rifles from a LEO friend in Wisconsin:

"A couple of our officers recently graduated of the Urban Rifle Course at Thunder Ranch. They both independently made the same observation:

Many of their fellow students showed up with bipods, various battery-operated sights, attached flashlights, lasers, and bewildering sling systems, all attached in miscellaneous ways to their rifles.

WITHOUT EXCEPTION, those people had taken all that junk off their rifle by the morning of the third day. All those gadgets had either broken, fallen off, ran out of juice, or made the rifle so heavy and unwieldily as to render it useless."

Lesson: Don't load up your guns with gimmicky junk. Instead, load up yourself with knowledge, righteousness, and experience. The latter will serve you far better than the former.

. . . Good friend, Giles Stock, made a wonderful and revealing presentation on 223/5.56 rifle chambers. Rifles can feature NATO or SAMMI specification chambers. As a rule, military rifles have NATO chambers, and recreational rifles have SAMMI chambers, but there is some overlap. For example, Ruger's Mini-14 has been made both ways!

NATO chambers have a long lead. SAMMI chambers are tighter and have a short lead. SAMMI chambers are designed for increased accuracy, but will yield dangerously high pressures in guns using military ammunition and/or which are subject to high volume shooting. Under such high pressures, primers will typically blow out backwards, fall down into the trigger mechanism, and cause the rifle to stop working. I've surely seen this on the range.

Bottom line: SAMMI chambers are for the kiddies. Any serious rifle needs a NATO chamber. Robinson Arms rifles come with NATO chambers, as do most of the others, but one needs to check.

Alex Robinson adds:

"If you use a SAMMI chamber in an autoloading rifle, you may overpressure it and blow it up when shooting rapidly. The tighter, shorter lead slows down the bullet substantially as it is trying to leave the case. When rifles are red hot from rapid shooting, the resultant pressures increase dramatically. In these situations, you need to get the bullet out of the case and down the barrel ASAP.

I never suggest using a SAMMI chamber on anything but a bolt action rifle. Anyone who tells you otherwise hasn't shot enough."

He ought to know!
Click to expand...

Personally, I'm saving up to buy a Springfield SOCOM

Regards
John
 
Geez, C-pher smack Paul for not showing you how. Sometime if we get together either Glenn or I can show you also. [lol] [lol]
 
Optimistic Paranoid said:
...
Ahh, I would not necessarilly assume that, no.

I guess it depends on how you define the phrase "good gun"....
Click to expand...
Since we are currently discussing AR'S, a good gun is assumed to be an AR that can make a small group at long range. Whether or not it is also a good battle rifle is simply way OT. Things rapidly and continually change, in high-power shooting, as new equipment, ammunition, and techinques are developed. The guys that are actually out there, making it happen, at long range, have the best current information. When I qualified, 25 years ago, the AR was not capable of serious competition and we all used Garands or M1A's, so my personal experiences, while interesting, are no longer valid data.
If I wanted to know what works, I'd ask those who get the job done, and that's what I have suggested to these new shooters.
 
MrsWildweasel said:
Geez, C-pher smack Paul for not showing you how. Sometime if we get together either Glenn or I can show you also. [lol] [lol]
Click to expand...

You don't want to go there with him. We went to the range, and we were playing with my ARs before we left. And he was getting all upset because I was shooting paper better than he was.

But I have an M4gery and no matter what we did, we couldn't get it to shoot any better than up/left. So I'm afraid that the sights are all screwed up.

I think that my other one is pretty sighted in, for the most part. But we didn't put it in a bench rest and measure out the required distance.
 
centermass181 said:
cant be the rifle. no way.

was the target moving down to the right?
[lol]
Click to expand...

I really did think that it was me. But when two other people were hitting the same spot, it has to be the rifle. But when they moved the wheel things all the way to the stops, and we're all shooting in the same place.

I just don't know enough about them to fix it...I was thinking that the front post was off. But I don't know how to tell

And these high power guys kept giving me manuals, but I couldn't make straight of anything.
 
jhrosier said:
Y'know, you guys might want to try to hook up with some of the high-power match shooters. Those guys are apparently shooting out to 600 yds. with AR's ...
Click to expand...

In .223? Is that considered "high power" now?
 
Coyote33 said:
In .223? Is that considered "high power" now?
Click to expand...
Heavy, fast twist barrels, with heavy (for caliber) bullets of high sectional density, is apparently giving very good results. The guys at the top of this game have no use for anything that doesn't produce good scores.
 
jhrosier said:
Heavy, fast twist barrels, with heavy (for caliber) bullets of high sectional density, is apparently giving very good results. The guys at the top of this game have no use for anything that doesn't produce good scores.
Click to expand...

Where does the "high power" come into play? IE: What is high power, and what is low power? I thought "high power" is anything 30 cal and above. No?
 
Coyote33 said:
In .223? Is that considered "high power" now?
Click to expand...

Yes, in .223. Most of us who compete in High Power service rifle (200, 300 and 600 yards) do so with the AR/A2. Many shoot the AR in 1,000 yard matches.

The .223 is a very capable round. It IS an effective man-stopper and is awesome on prarie dogs and coyotes.
 
Not denying that. I just find it odd when 223 is considered "high power" versus 308, 30-06, or .50.


Hey, watch it with the coyote comments! (-:

Really, the www.coyotegods.com says .223 is too much for coyote, as it can leave too big an exit for pelt damage.
 

Similar threads

i was that guy...you know, the one we all hate
2
Replies
46
Views
1K
Broc
Broc
Russians want your ammo
Replies
0
Views
301
watchman
W
I don't even have an AK and I want it
Replies
19
Views
534
Agnotology
Agnotology
Buying more than one firearm
2
Replies
45
Views
1K
Mesatchornug
Mesatchornug
Want to know who has a monopoly of force in America?
2 3 4
Replies
111
Views
2K
fencer
fencer
Back
Top Bottom