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I know this isn't wise, but is it legal?

wheelgun

wheelgun

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I was out walking tonight and a random thought entered my head, and I realized I didn't have a good answer. I looked at the MGL, but it wasn't clear there.

In Mass. with an LTC ALP, according to MGL chapter 140 section 131c I can carry a high-cap rifle in a case. Said case has to be locked and the rifle unloaded while it's in my car.

But what about carrying in a case in public, walking down the street? I realize it isn't a wise thing to do, but chapter 269 section 12D part B says I can do it as long as it's unloaded. But it doesn't mention anything about locking the case etc. In that scenario does the case still have to be locked?

Section 131c only refers to locking it during transport. Does transport include walking down the street, or across a parking lot (like going to a gun show) etc?
 
Of course it's legal. How the hell else would you be able to transport it from your home to your car? Now, why the hell would anyone be walking around with a rifle case is beyond me and just asking for their LTC to be pulled.
 
Fsorrent said:
Of course it's legal. How the hell else would you be able to transport it from your home to your car? Now, why the hell would anyone be walking around with a rifle case is beyond me and just asking for their LTC to be pulled.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but your comments don't make much sense to me.

You missed the operative word "locked". The question is not whether one can transport in a case, but whether that case has to be locked at all times while in public.

Why would I be walking down the street with a rifle case? How else do I get my rifle to the gun store?
 
Kinda reminds me of the time loading up to go to the range, a son with his father walked by and I heard "hey dad he has 2 guitars in his hands, he must be in a band"

In my head I was thinking "Umm sure, not in a band.. but I sure do rock and roll [wink]"
 
Actually a good question. I just finished up some shooting this afternoon and wanted to stop into the package store. Question was - do I leave the rifle in it's softsided case, unloaded, with a trigger lock in my topless Jeep or do I carry the case with me to check out the selection of sauvignon blanc to with the chicken for dinner tonight?

I opted to go the safe route and was able to enjoy my roast chicken without said wine, but if I had gone in would there have been a problem ?
 
BillK said:
You are not to leave a firearm inside a vehicle.

Now leaving a soft case in the back seat of a Jeep is just asking for some ass to steal it and cause you issues.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to say it is illegal to keep a firearm in a vehicle when you are not there, or it would simply not be a good idea to so so? It is legal, and here is how to do it properly:

In MA, it is completely legal to leave an unloaded handgun or large capacity rifle or large capacity shotgun in your vehicle so long as:

You have a proper license for that gun, and,

The firearm is unloaded, and,

It is locked in a case, or,

Locked in the trunk, or,

Locked in another secure container.
 
How else would I get an M1A through an airport and onto a plane?

Buckwheat.jpg

Airport!
 
wheelgun said:
But what about carrying in a case in public, walking down the street? I realize it isn't a wise thing to do, but chapter 269 section 12D part B says I can do it as long as it's unloaded. But it doesn't mention anything about locking the case etc. In that scenario does the case still have to be locked?

Section 131c only refers to locking it during transport. Does transport include walking down the street, or across a parking lot (like going to a gun show) etc?
Click to expand...

No, no lock needed to carry a cased and unloaded rifle or shotgun on a public way. Thus the old hunter 'trick' of putting a gun sock around your gun to comply with C269 S 12D when you come out of the woods and need to walk down a street.
 
jdubois said:
No, no lock needed to carry a cased and unloaded rifle or shotgun on a public way. Thus the old hunter 'trick' of putting a gun sock around your gun to comply with C269 S 12D when you come out of the woods and need to walk down a street.
Click to expand...

Hunters are exempt:

It is unlawful for a licensed person to carry an unloaded rifle or shotgun on a public was unless engaged in hunting or in possession of a hunting license, or unless the rifle or shotgun is enclosed in a case.
 
Mike-Mike said:
Hunters are exempt:

It is unlawful for a licensed person to carry an unloaded rifle or shotgun on a public was unless engaged in hunting or in possession of a hunting license, or unless the rifle or shotgun is enclosed in a case.
Click to expand...

They're only exempt if they're still hunting. If you're done hunting and walking back to your car, you are not engaged in hunting. At least according to Chief Glidden. Here's what Glidden has to say:

Chief Glidden said:
The term "engaged in hunting" as it applies in this section refers to actively hunting, not walking to and from the location of the hunt. This section prior to chapter 180 of the Acts of 1998 allowed being on a public way while engaged in hunting. The purpose of the "engaged in hunting" language then as now was to allow a person who was hunting on one side of a public way to cross to the other side without unloading. A person is not engaged in hunting from the moment he leaves the front door of his home to go hunting. Therefore, a person going on a hunting trip can not walk from a residential area to the woods without having the rifle or shotgun in a case. In addition, c. 131, section 58 prohibits hunting within 500 feet of a dwelling. As such, a person could not hunt in a residential area so could not use the "engaged in hunting" exemption. Such a person would have carry his rifle or shotgun in an enclosed case if he was going to walk on a public way.
Click to expand...
 
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Cross-X said:
Are you trying to say it is illegal to keep a firearm in a vehicle when you are not there, or it would simply not be a good idea to so so? It is legal, and here is how to do it properly:

In MA, it is completely legal to leave an unloaded handgun or large capacity rifle or large capacity shotgun in your vehicle so long as:

You have a proper license for that gun, and,

The firearm is unloaded, and,

It is locked in a case, or,

Locked in the trunk, or,

Locked in another secure container.
Click to expand...


I guess this is out of the question then (at least for the average MA gun owning peon)?

[smile]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vycUFoQChqY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laRkfvp-zGY&feature=related
 
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Your question reminds me of a story: When my grandfather passed away back in 1990, I went to Ohio at the request of my parents to help clean things out. I was given his Mossberg Pump Shotgun. (Please remember the year) I parked at Alewife Station in Boston (they had long term parking back then) and took the T to Logan. Naturally I had to repeat the process in reverse on the way back. Since I had flown with firearms before, I was aware of the rules in place at the time and that was no problem. Since I was a non-resident of Mass at the time (in the military) I had my non-resident LTC and an FID, so that was no problem. When I arrived in Boston, I retrieved the shotgun and carried it with me (cased and locked) on the T from the Blue Line to the Red Line arriving at the end of the line: Alewife Station...and that was no problem. No one raised an eyebrow, so yes I have traversed under the streets of Boston with a shotgun (in a case) with absolutely nary a hassle or problem. The question that is begged to be asked, of course is: could one do that today without encountering some difficulty or questions? (not a question of legality)

Mark L.
 
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A few years ago, I was sitting in the terminal at JFK waiting for my connecting flight to South Africa. I had a large photo tripod with me in a soft case. An older lady sat down and started up a conversation with me. After a while she asked me if the case was a rifle I was bringing to Africa to hunt with. My first reaction was to ask her how in the world she thought I'd have been allowed to bring a rifle into the sterile area in an airport. But I just winked at her and told her not to tell anybody [laugh].
 
sy32478 said:
Actually a good question. I just finished up some shooting this afternoon and wanted to stop into the package store. Question was - do I leave the rifle in it's softsided case, unloaded, with a trigger lock in my topless Jeep or do I carry the case with me to check out the selection of sauvignon blanc to with the chicken for dinner tonight?

I opted to go the safe route and was able to enjoy my roast chicken without said wine, but if I had gone in would there have been a problem ?
Click to expand...

There would have been a problem regardless of whether you went in or not unless your soft case was locked.

A trigger lock on a gun in an unlocked soft case doesn't satisfy Mass transport requirements.
 
EddieCoyle said:
There would have been a problem regardless of whether you went in or not unless your soft case was locked.

A trigger lock on a gun in an unlocked soft case doesn't satisfy Mass transport requirements.
Click to expand...

Silly question, but if he parks the car is it now considered storing rather than transport? This has always confused me.
 
BillK said:
You are not to leave a firearm inside a vehicle.
Click to expand...

According to the law you CAN do this, you just have to follow the guidelines
set forth in MGL.

Now leaving a soft case in the back seat of a Jeep is just asking for some ass to steal it and cause you issues.
Click to expand...

I agree it can cause you issues, (eg, a chief abusing suitability clause) but
it still isn't illegal, if you comply with the regulations for transport.

What is legal and what might be considered "good practices" are two different things.

-Mike
 
Does a padlock around the two plastic handles on a hard case count? Even if the padlock is a little loose? I have a yard-sale hard case but the cheesy little latch/lock things are missing the key. This would be good to meet the letter of the law if a padlock will suffice.

Also, I was wondering about a .22 rifle (in a locked soft case) on a mountain bike. There is a great area not far from me, but it is inaccessible to motorized vehicles, and a little far to walk (couple miles). Rather than ask to get dropped off and picked up, I could take a backpack with ammo/targets and rifle in locked soft case. Legal?

Thanks.
 
Fsorrent said:
Silly question, but if he parks the car is it now considered storing rather than transport?
Click to expand...

This is an area that still needs to be decided by case law (wanna be the test case? [wink]). But both the EOPS and the MSP have stated their opinion that 131C (carrying in vehicle) applies in this case, rather than 131L (storage). However Chief Glidden advises that for non-large capacity rifles and shotguns for which 131C does not apply, you may want to apply the rules of 131L in these situations.
 
I bought a shotgun from Roaches a few years back. Didn't have a box or a case for it so the sales person sold me one of those silicone impregnated sock. He said that constitutes a case in legal terms and explained that alot of customers do that. Oh well, I walked out of the store with it sticking out like a sore thumb to my car which was parked a few blocks away. No one really cared but I did notice a few folks doing a double take.
 
Coyote33 said:
Does a padlock around the two plastic handles on a hard case count? Even if the padlock is a little loose? I have a yard-sale hard case but the cheesy little latch/lock things are missing the key. This would be good to meet the letter of the law if a padlock will suffice.

Also, I was wondering about a .22 rifle (in a locked soft case) on a mountain bike. There is a great area not far from me, but it is inaccessible to motorized vehicles, and a little far to walk (couple miles). Rather than ask to get dropped off and picked up, I could take a backpack with ammo/targets and rifle in locked soft case. Legal?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

1st question - definitely yes. MGL states the case must be locked - it doesn't specify what kind of lock, or whether the case is hard or soft.

2nd question - Again, I don't see any issue if the case is locked. And from what's been stated in this thread, even if it's unlocked, as long as it's "under your control" at all times.
 
BillK said:
Kinda reminds me of the time loading up to go to the range, a son with his father walked by and I heard "hey dad he has 2 guitars in his hands, he must be in a band"

In my head I was thinking "Umm sure, not in a band.. but I sure do rock and roll [wink]"
Click to expand...

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who has used this method to great effect. The clincher? The case for my Strat has locks, as do many guitar cases. Highly ineffective locks, but locks nonetheless. Only problem I ever had with that was showing up to band rehearsal one night with a Mossberg 500. [slap]
 
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Lot's of good info. Thanks.

To anyone whose reading comprehension is not up to snuff, NFW was I going to leave anything of value, least of all an AR-15 in the back of a Jeep with the roof down. [rolleyes]

However, had I carried the rifle, in its soft case, unloaded and with a trigger lock, and someone freaked out at Dub's what would be the result? Yeah yeah know that not trimming my toenails straight can make you "unsuitable", but if the sheeple panic for no good reason and the local constabulary gets involved, then what?
 
sy32478 said:
Lot's of good info. Thanks.

To anyone whose reading comprehension is not up to snuff, NFW was I going to leave anything of value, least of all an AR-15 in the back of a Jeep with the roof down. [rolleyes]

However, had I carried the rifle, in its soft case, unloaded and with a trigger lock, and someone freaked out at Dub's what would be the result? Yeah yeah know that not trimming my toenails straight can make you "unsuitable", but if the sheeple panic for no good reason and the local constabulary gets involved, then what?
Click to expand...


DUbs's liquors in MAnsfield?
 

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