I HATE CASE TRIMMING!!

PatMcD said:
Without a chamfer, I find a small pile of copper shavings on my 650 shell plate after a few hundred rounds or so. Drives me crazy.
Click to expand...

I see so you have observed that a square edge will or can shave some copper? My final step is to drive the expander ball down the case which leaves a clean square edge. I can see if the seating die isn't square it can cause an issue. Before I bought the Dillon, I had the manual hornady trimmer and that left a heck of a burr that I would take off with a chamfer bit. I have to watch my 650 closely next time I reload .223. I reload .308 on a single stage press and haven't observed any shaving even with a flat bottom projectile.

I read the Giraud website and they mention their chamfer is especially important for boat tail projectiles. Maybe the boat tail projectile is more prone to shaving?

Chris
 
Huh, I was under the impression if you are loading only boat tail then you really wouldn't need to chamfer since the boat tail of the projectile helps with it fitting into the case, whereas an un-boat tail projectile would run the risk of catching right on the edge of the case from the start. Like I mentioned, I've been using the WFT and have only been loading boat tail projectiles and haven't had a single problem or instance where I was wishing I chamfered the case.
 
If you have the Dillon 1050 with the trimmer, and a lyman "M" die or similar products it flares the mouth and also removes the burr.
It is said this will decrease brass life....

The OP could use the M die in any press. i'd rather not add another step and get one of the drill attachments that chamfers/deburr. If you don't reload much.
 
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*chris* said:
I see so you have observed that a square edge will or can shave some copper? My final step is to drive the expander ball down the case which leaves a clean square edge. I can see if the seating die isn't square it can cause an issue. Before I bought the Dillon, I had the manual hornady trimmer and that left a heck of a burr that I would take off with a chamfer bit. I have to watch my 650 closely next time I reload .223. I reload .308 on a single stage press and haven't observed any shaving even with a flat bottom projectile.

I read the Giraud website and they mention their chamfer is especially important for boat tail projectiles. Maybe the boat tail projectile is more prone to shaving?

Chris
Click to expand...
When is a seating die not square? Once finding proper adjustment, isn't it etiquette to tighten the jam nut against something (tool head, press, etc) and at that point the seating die- or any die- is only as square as the press. I have never found this to be a direct cause of any sort of failure in any of my reloads but I'd be interested if there was such an example.


MGnoob said:
If you have the Dillon 1050 with the trimmer, and a lyman "M" die or similar products it flares the mouth and also removes the burr.
It is said this will decrease brass life....

The OP could use the M die in any press. i'd rather not add another step and get one of the drill attachments that chamfers/deburr. If you don't reload much.
Click to expand...
Hold the phone. M dies are expander dies only. Even if it removes a burr, it's only going to push it further down the neck and into the case. I don't have any scientific data to back this up, but my OCD is twitching pretty hard. Varying weights, sizes, and shapes of shavings in the case getting hammered down the barrel during combustion and inevitably getting stuck, introducing more variation through fouling. [hmmm]
 
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asp said:
When is a seating die not square? Once finding proper adjustment, isn't it etiquette to tighten the jam nut against something (tool head, press, etc) and at that point the seating die- or any die- is only as square as the press. I have never found this to be a direct cause of any sort of failure in any of my reloads but I'd be interested if there was such an example.



Hold the phone. M dies are expander dies only. Even if it removes a burr, it's only going to push it further down the neck and into the case. I don't have any scientific data to back this up, but my OCD is twitching pretty hard. Varying weights, sizes, and shapes of shavings in the case getting hammered down the barrel during combustion and inevitably getting stuck, introducing more variation through fouling. [hmmm]
Click to expand...
I have a dillon trimmer setup like chris. I did some experimenting with the Lyman M die in station 1 which expands the neck and adds a very tiny flare at the caseneck while reloading in the 650. This is after case prep with the dillon trimmer and no chamfering. I used a dillon roll crimp die (223) in station 5. Groups with the M die and no chamfer were significantly better than no M die and chamfer. I have some pictures of the groups somewhere - 20 rounds rapid elbows on the bench. I don't know how it will affect case life but I thought it was interesting. I had no copper shavings from seating.
 
beaker said:
I have a dillon trimmer setup like chris. I did some experimenting with the Lyman M die in station 1 which expands the neck and adds a very tiny flare at the caseneck while reloading in the 650. This is after case prep with the dillon trimmer and no chamfering. I used a dillon roll crimp die (223) in station 5. Groups with the M die and no chamfer were significantly better than no M die and chamfer. I have some pictures of the groups somewhere - 20 rounds rapid elbows on the bench. I don't know how it will affect case life but I thought it was interesting. I had no copper shavings from seating.
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When you did your test, did you chamfer by hand?

I did a similar test, but compared rounds that were trimmed, deburred, and chamfered on the Giraud vs some of the same brass trimmed, chamfered and deburred "by hand". The ones prepared on the Giraud had smaller groups than those prepped by hand.

I think it was due to variability of the chamfer. The Giraud cut exactly the same chamfer every time. The ones prepped by hand had chamfers cut to slightly different depths. Different depth chamfers mean different lengths of brass holding the bullet into the neck. It was as if the cases were trimmed to different lengths.
 
asp said:
Hold the phone. M dies are expander dies only. Even if it removes a burr, it's only going to push it further down the neck and into the case. I don't have any scientific data to back this up, but my OCD is twitching pretty hard. Varying weights, sizes, and shapes of shavings in the case getting hammered down the barrel during combustion and inevitably getting stuck, introducing more variation through fouling. [hmmm]
Click to expand...

while the M die is only an expander die it removes the burr for me.. After a trip around my processing toolhead they go into the SS wet tumbler again.Which cleans out any chips from the trimmer and burr pieces from the M die. I have read tumbling the brass after sizing will roll the mouth of the case in. i have found this to be untrue, atlleast not with the little flare that's put on by the M die..I use a 55grain boattail jacket projectile as alittle gauge to check for flair consistancy.. if they all get trimmed they are identical...if there are any short case they wind up with slightly less flair.. so i try to set it up so even the short ones have sufisient flair without the llonger ones that get trimmed being over flaired..

From my experience and IMO, this process does thicken the material around the mouth... i anneal my brass every-time and find neck tension to be ideal and consistant.
never mind that many of my cases have been reload over 25 or 30 times.
 
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I wish I reloaded enough to justify an annealer and the time it takes. Brass is just too easy to come by for me to worry about the attrition rate currently. And I don't shoot HP or other competitions so I don't have the need to track batches religiously.
 
ya, having to do another step or handle the brass another time can be a nuisance. my annealer hold several hundred cases but you have to hand orientate them.. i'm going to be working on a mechanism that uses one of the case-feeders i already have to fill the anealers hopper.... to me it's not completely about brass longevity. Since i only use range pickup and don't buy brass it really adds to the consistency...especially neck tension and reducing "spring back" while sizing.
i need more brass.


Back to the actual topic of the thread... i hate trimming brass because listening to the shop vac run is annoyingly loud. i should have gotten the smaller shop vac for chip removal. While the one i have is loud the added suction really keeps the press and brass clean of chips
 
I use the Lee quicktrim on my 223 and 7.62x54R cases and can easily do 400-500 cases per hour with good consistency.

The Lee trimmer indexes the case against the datum point and trims relative to that .... if your re-sizing is not giving you a consistent length from the datum point to the base you will see overall length variations, I would start by verifying that your resized cases have a consistent headspace measurement before blaming the trimming process.
 
RImike said:
Found a good video of the trimming process:
Click to expand...

I finally watched this video. Takes way too long the way he's doing it.
Find a corded power drill. The kind that has a button to keep it going all the time. Slap it in a vise so it's pointed up at a 45 degree angle. Turn it on and go. Higher speed of a corded drill means it takes about 2 seconds to trim it.
I wear a old-style nail apron with my brass in it. One hand sticks it in the trimmer while the other hand picks out a new piece of brass. Drop the finished piece in a bucket on the floor. I just did 500 pieces in no time.

I tried it in my drill press, but it's too much fumbling around blind trying to fit it in the trimmer by feel. Too slow, too.

I'll probably get another one for .308/30-06.
 
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I trim on press in most cases. .308,5.56 & 300BLK. I do have to chamfer and debur on my case prep center but sizing,trimming and swaging 1200 r.p.h makes it all worth it. I have the RT1500 Dillon unit on the 650 and 1050.
 
I own a Giraud power trimmer and love it. (I recently trimmed 300 .308 cases in 25 min)

I was going to recommend the RCBS lathe type trimmer because its hard to justify a $450 Girraud when you only do 1000 cases per year, and it works pretty well.

But then I saw Eddie's link to the Giraud TriWay trimmer for $90.

Guys its a total no-brainer. The TriWay uses the same head as the $450 trimmer, and I can tell you that it works flawlessly.
With the right drill setup, this could be so good it will cannibalize his power trimmer sales.
 
I use the Frankford Arsenal Platinum case trimming station. Just did 1000 rds of 223 and about 50 rounds of 308. Took a while, but that was going to be a long session anyway. Setup is fast and easy. My only wish is that the motor would spin faster.
 
Pinion said:
I use the Frankford Arsenal Platinum case trimming station. Just did 1000 rds of 223 and about 50 rounds of 308. Took a while, but that was going to be a long session anyway. Setup is fast and easy. My only wish is that the motor would spin faster.
Click to expand...

Have you switched to an RCBS/Lyman carbide cutting head? It helps. But I have the same complaint, it takes a while. I kind of want to take mine apart and see how they're driving the motor. Might be able to rig it to turn faster depending on how they do it.
 
dcmdon said:
I own a Giraud power trimmer and love it. (I recently trimmed 300 .308 cases in 25 min)

I was going to recommend the RCBS lathe type trimmer because its hard to justify a $450 Girraud when you only do 1000 cases per year, and it works pretty well.

But then I saw Eddie's link to the Giraud TriWay trimmer for $90.

Guys its a total no-brainer. The TriWay uses the same head as the $450 trimmer, and I can tell you that it works flawlessly.
With the right drill setup, this could be so good it will cannibalize his power trimmer sales.
Click to expand...

If I didn't already have my Giraud I would be all over the TriWay. Absolute no-brainer. In fact I may pickup a .308 TriWay because I'm lazy and don't want to switch cutting heads.
 
Royal said:
If I didn't already have my Giraud I would be all over the TriWay. Absolute no-brainer. In fact I may pickup a .308 TriWay because I'm lazy and don't want to switch cutting heads.
Click to expand...

Do you have the spare cutting head? How easy is it to change? \

I did a stupid thing and didn't order a second head so when I switch calibers I need to adjust the cutter. Penny wise and pound foolish.

- - - Updated - - -

Pinion said:
I use the Frankford Arsenal Platinum case trimming station. Just did 1000 rds of 223 and about 50 rounds of 308. Took a while, but that was going to be a long session anyway. Setup is fast and easy. My only wish is that the motor would spin faster.
Click to expand...

I've used one of those. Its a great value. The only problem is they cheaped out on the motor and it turns veerrrrryyyy slow compared to even a corded drill.

Its the kindof thing where for an extra $10 they could have made a great trimmer.
 
I just got my Little Crow Gunworks Worlds Finest Trimmer in .223. A little pricey for something that only trims one caliber, but incredibly fast and easy. I can't believe how much I like it. You give be case a slight quarter turn twist on the way out and chamfur/debur is essentially done too.

I can't speak to the durability yet, but based on the speed I'm getting, I'll buy another for my 300 Blackout so I have both of my high volume rifle cartridges covered and just use the regular trimmer for the rest of my calibers. I'm more impressed than I expected to be.
 
Pinion said:
I use the Frankford Arsenal Platinum case trimming station. Just did 1000 rds of 223 and about 50 rounds of 308. Took a while, but that was going to be a long session anyway. Setup is fast and easy. My only wish is that the motor would spin faster.
Click to expand...
I've been looking at the Frankford station for about a year now and just haven't pulled the trigger. My interest has been renewed since I will be building a 300 Blackout soon. I take it that, other that motor speed, it has worked well for you?
 
That Guy said:
I just got my Little Crow Gunworks Worlds Finest Trimmer in .223. A little pricey for something that only trims one caliber, but incredibly fast and easy. I can't believe how much I like it. You give be case a slight quarter turn twist on the way out and chamfur/debur is essentially done too.

I can't speak to the durability yet, but based on the speed I'm getting, I'll buy another for my 300 Blackout so I have both of my high volume rifle cartridges covered and just use the regular trimmer for the rest of my calibers. I'm more impressed than I expected to be.
Click to expand...

My only complaint with it is that I wish I bought a triway. lol Unfortunately, at the time, I didn't know they existed.
 
That Guy said:
Is the Tri Way any better? Just took a look at videos - looks pretty much the same as a WFT. What would you say it has for advantages?
Click to expand...

I've never used the WFT, but the Tri Way trims and chambers both inside and out in one process. If you don't care about a chamber, its no better.

PuS. You should care about a chamber.
 

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