I HATE CASE TRIMMING!!

[Rate_of_Twist]

Ok, I'm stupid so bash away but,

Wouldn't trimming based on the shoulder have some very different overall case lengths? some of my 5.56 brass are range pickups that I have no idea their previous life....

 

[xtry51]

Ok, I'm stupid so bash away but,

Wouldn't trimming based on the shoulder have some very different overall case lengths? some of my 5.56 brass are range pickups that I have no idea their previous life....

You trim after resizing, so hypothetically all the shoulders are in the same spot.

 

[7.62x39]

I don't know who is copying who, but that Giraud trimmer is the same thing as this.

http://www.littlecrowgunworks.com/wft.html

I have one that was karma'd to me by another member here. He wasn't having much luck with it and to be honest, I don't use it much either. Besides being caliber specific, requiring you to buy one for every caliber you reload, I found it to be very finicky.

For some reason when you space it from just the neck, getting consistent COALs is challenging. I have no idea why, in theory it should work, but it doesn't always. Not only did it require using matching headstamps, but in some cases matching years.

I have a bunch of LC 13 brass. I could do a long run of that with fairly good results. I tried sneaking in some 09 in now and then with less than impressive results.

 

[jpm]

Just got home from work and saw the reply's. I like the cordless drill use over the cranking. It wasn't too much fum cranking that thing 3-4 dozen times per case and having to put the case back in and crank some more to get the desired results. It just took too long to get a few cases done. I'm tempted to save my money and go with the Giraud after this ordeal. I have a while to go before having brass for reloading again .Thanks for the ideas.

Greg

I use that same one for 30-06 trimming and if you're cranking it 30 or 40 times per case, you're doing it wrong! I do 3 or 4 cranks per case to trim and a few more to kinda finish it off and its good to go. You need to put some pressure on it when you crank. You should be able to hear and feel it trimming for the first few turns then gets quieter and smoother when its done. I do less than 10 cranks per case and I don't even bother to trim until after a few reloadings if its for anything other than my 03A4.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I don't know who is copying who, but that Giraud trimmer is the same thing as this.

http://www.littlecrowgunworks.com/wft.html

It's not the same. The Little Crow cuts with an end mill, and requires you to chamfer and deburr in a separate step. The Giraud does this while it trims.

As far as spacing off the shoulder goes, if they're sized all the same, then they will trim all the same. If you can't hold the case head-to-shoulder distance constant, it means that your headspace length is all over the map, at which point you don't really need to be overly concerned with trim length because your ammo is already limited to, ahem... "plinking quality".

 

[peterthefish]

All these posts on trimming and no love for the X-Dies? Trim once and done for as long as the case lasts (which seems to be longer than normal with regular sizing and trimming).

 

[Gator9329]

Curious about the x die also. Looks like it could be a little tricky to use.

 

[Gammon]

As an oblivious new guy researching reloading methods, quick question: If you have to trim a case before each reload, then do you have a limited number of times that you can reload a case. Probably, right?

If I reload 9mm, then does that case have to be trimmed? Or does the trimming come into play more with large shells like .308, 30-06, ...

Most semi auto pistol cases shorten with use so trimming is not necessary.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

It's not the same. The Little Crow cuts with an end mill, and requires you to chamfer and deburr in a separate step. The Giraud does this while it trims.

As far as spacing off the shoulder goes, if they're sized all the same, then they will trim all the same. If you can't hold the case head-to-shoulder distance constant, it means that your headspace length is all over the map, at which point you don't really need to be overly concerned with trim length because your ammo is already limited to, ahem... "plinking quality".

So, as both xtry51 and yourself pointed out, resize then trim with the Giraud?

 

[peterthefish]

Curious about the x die also. Looks like it could be a little tricky to use.

It's a one time setup. I have a separate sizing die I use to size brass the first time it's fired, then trim it and keep separated. All brass fired more than 1 x gets sized with the Xdie and kept separately. I use the WFT 2 to trim and just stainless tumble to deburr since I usually load boattail bullets.

 

[Romokid]

So, as both xtry51 and yourself pointed out, resize then trim with the Giraud?

Yes. Although I have the WFT as the Giraud Tri Way was not available then. I trim just before priming. I'm also only loading boattail projectiles and so far have not found that I need to chamfer and deburr with the WFT. But if I was buying now, I would buy the Giraud Tri Way as it does those extra steps so that in the future if I load non-boattail it's already done.

 

[RImike]

There are adapters out there that replace the handle with drill chucked bit. I wonder how well they perform. I have about 1K of brass that needs to be trimmed and I don't feel like my arm turning into Quagmires after he discovered the internet.

 

[7.62x39]

It's not the same. The Little Crow cuts with an end mill, and requires you to chamfer and deburr in a separate step. The Giraud does this while it trims.

I realize that, I was referring to the basic design and that they both index off the shoulder

As far as spacing off the shoulder goes, if they're sized all the same, then they will trim all the same.

My thoughts exactly. I can't understand why I'm getting variation with different headstamps.

 

[peterthefish]

My thoughts exactly. I can't understand why I'm getting variation with different headstamps.

There's some flex in any press. Brass that's harder to resize will flex the press more (couple or few thous) putting the shoulder a bit further forward. Same reason loading mixed pistol brass can cause larger OAL variation.

 

[EddieCoyle]

My thoughts exactly. I can't understand why I'm getting variation with different headstamps.

Spring back is one possibility.

Are these mixed headstamp cases all fired from the same rifle, or are they mixed headstamp & mixed origin?

 

[Molon Labe]

Giraud. Period.

Buy one. It's worth every last penny. Trim cases and chamfer inside/outside in under 2 seconds per piece and they all come out +/-.001 in length.

I trimmed 1600 pcs of 223 this weekend in one sitting in just over an hour while watching TV.

Yeah +1 For the Giraud trimmer. I use my buddy's all the time. It saves me time and agony. Hand Trimming? Never again

 

[Steve Marshall]

The trimmers that locate on the shoulder will vary for several reasons. The biggest of course is the shoulder location. Now some of you speak of kissing shoulders back by a thou or two. Try that someday on range pickup. Then measure 100 or so, in a case gage, rather than taking a look and calling it good. The fingernail is a poor tool also. Measure enough of them and you might be surprised.

All case mics are not always calibrated properly. Calibrate with a headspace gage. In Them:
Banana cases give false readings.
Dings on the head give false readings.
Out of square case heads give false readings.

If you want truer readings, indicate the head in a cartridge gage.

 

[xtry51]

I just trim them 2.240 avg. The exact length is not as important to me persoanlly because I'm reloading mixed brass range pickup and reloading with M193 heads. I still get 1.5" groups at 100yds from my well used 16" AR.

If I want to reload nice ammo I sort brass fired from my gun already by head stamp, trim them in groups to 2.250 and load up 77gr Sierras. I keep this brass separate from my bulk reloading and I trim it every time I reload it.

The bulk reload stuff I don't trim every time, just when it grows back over the 2.260.

 

[7.62x39]

Are these mixed headstamp cases all fired from the same rifle, or are they mixed headstamp & mixed origin?

I bought 1000 once fired LC, most were 09 but with some other years sprinkled in. If I set the trimmer up with an 09 case, I can cut 09s fairly consistently, introducing other years is where the problems started.
Switching to headstamps other than LC threw me off even more.

It's like you have to set it up for the exact cases you wish to trim, switching to another headstamp requires resetting the trimmer. If you're trying to trim a mixed batch, You're screwed.

When I set up my Forster trimmer for a particular caliber I can trim that caliber all day with superb consistency no matter how many different headstamps I'm trimming.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I bet if you measured the headspace length of those cases, you'd see that same variation. That's why they trim to different lengths.

Also, as Steve Marshall correctly pointed out, the condition of the rims can affect how far back the shoulder is pushed

 

[josh2600]

I have a Giraud, so I don't use those, but don't tjhey use an end mill and trim flat? The Giraud uses the same cutter they use in their power trimmer, so it trims, chamfers, and deburrs in one step.

ugh, I wish I knew about that before I bought the wft.

 

[MJ1]

I load six rifle calibers and five pistol. I bought a used Forester and a carbide bit and it does it all from reaming to trimming.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

What is the output shaft on the Giraud??? I wonder if I could set it up in a variable speed router / router table I have?

 

[TheQuag]

I bought 1000 once fired LC, most were 09 but with some other years sprinkled in. If I set the trimmer up with an 09 case, I can cut 09s fairly consistently, introducing other years is where the problems started.
Switching to headstamps other than LC threw me off even more.

It's like you have to set it up for the exact cases you wish to trim, switching to another headstamp requires resetting the trimmer. If you're trying to trim a mixed batch, You're screwed.

When I set up my Forster trimmer for a particular caliber I can trim that caliber all day with superb consistency no matter how many different headstamps I'm trimming.

This;

I was reforming 5.56/.223 to make 300 Blackout using mixed brass. The lengths were all fuc%ed up after resizing. I switched to LC only and it all evened out. I of course cut off the tops with a little miter saw before trimming with my WFT. At first I thought it was the WFT but it was the brass.

 

[deerdad]

Like I said, I am tempted by the ease with the Giraud but I also know I am going to want to reload 8mm for my K98 by this summer and possibly 303 but I haven't shot that for a long time. I have my SKS with pre-ban kit and 30 rd mags but it may be easier to just keep stocking up on that ammo since it's easy to get. I like the 3 way trimming feature to cut back on handling. It looks like anything with a motor (used) is going to be the better part of 100$ by the time extras are added in. A non motorized (manual) would be ok as long as it does what it's supposed to with ease. Can anyone give specific models that I can use on multiple cal. on what info I just gave with this post?

Greg

 

[DW357]

Like I said, I am tempted by the ease with the Giraud but I also know I am going to want to reload 8mm for my K98 by this summer and possibly 303 but I haven't shot that for a long time. I have my SKS with pre-ban kit and 30 rd mags but it may be easier to just keep stocking up on that ammo since it's easy to get. I like the 3 way trimming feature to cut back on handling. It looks like anything with a motor (used) is going to be the better part of 100$ by the time extras are added in. A non motorized (manual) would be ok as long as it does what it's supposed to with ease. Can anyone give specific models that I can use on multiple cal. on what info I just gave with this post?

Greg

If you already have a cordless drill, see post #16. Cheap and works well. I only reload 30-06 and 30 carbine for rifle calibers and it works well.

 

[*chris*]

I have to put in a plug for the Dillon RT 1200. I can lube, size, trim, run the expanding bell through the trimmed case without touching the case at all in my Dillon 650.

Station 1 is a RCBS lube die
Station 2 in empty
Station 3 is the Dillon resizing die with the trimmer attached to the top
Station 4 in empty
Station 5 is a Hornady resizing die backed off, but with the expander bell to remove any potential burr in the case mouth

The Dillon uses an industry standard carbide cutting insert. It does not have the adjustable cutter like Giraud that chamfers the inside and outside of the case, but it also doesn't seem necessary. That being said my cutter is brand new with only a few thousand cases through it.

It is consistent within +-.001 and since it indexes off of the case bottom I can identify undersized range brass easily e.g. 1.040 since they are not trimmed at all.

Changing calibers is as easy as buying a different Dillon resizing die that the trimmer mounts to.

I use a Hornady case prep trio for removing the crimped primer pockets.

The Giraud Tri Way trimmer looks really interesting but is probably slower since you need to handle the brass a lot more.

Chris

 

[PatMcD]

I have to put in a plug for the Dillon RT 1200. I can lube, size, trim, run the expanding bell through the trimmed case without touching the case at all in my Dillon 650.

Station 1 is a RCBS lube die
Station 2 in empty
Station 3 is the Dillon resizing die with the trimmer attached to the top
Station 4 in empty
Station 5 is a Hornady resizing die backed off, but with the expander bell to remove any potential burr in the case mouth

The Dillon uses an industry standard carbide cutting insert. It does not have the adjustable cutter like Giraud that chamfers the inside and outside of the case, but it also doesn't seem necessary. That being said my cutter is brand new with only a few thousand cases through it.

It is consistent within +-.001 and since it indexes off of the case bottom I can identify undersized range brass easily e.g. 1.040 since they are not trimmed at all.

Changing calibers is as easy as buying a different Dillon resizing die that the trimmer mounts to.

I use a Hornady case prep trio for removing the crimped primer pockets.

The Giraud Tri Way trimmer looks really interesting but is probably slower since you need to handle the brass a lot more.

Chris

It's slower if you don't care about inside/outside chamfer.

 

[*chris*]

It's slower if you don't care about inside/outside chamfer.

Agreed, if you don't have a burr, what is the benefit of the chamfer? Is there an accuracy benefit? Better case feeding?

Chris

 

[PatMcD]

Without a chamfer, I find a small pile of copper shavings on my 650 shell plate after a few hundred rounds or so. Drives me crazy.