HOW TO REPORT OUT OF STATE TRANSFER TO FFL ???

[geoguy8]

So I traded a used long gun that has been registered in Mass for a new Long gun at the KTP in Maine. How do I report the "sale" of my old gun to KTP? The Electronic version wont accept the FFl# .....
Thanks guys

 

[92G]

I have heard many different perspectives on this.

It has been explained to me that there is no way to "remove" a firearm once its in the FA10 system. In otherwords, it isnt a list of current owned firearms but rather everything you have owned.

IMO its retarded in general, so I do like to keep record that the firearm was lawfully transferred to an FFL just in case someone accuses me of either unlawfully selling it or committing a crime w it.

personally if i transfer a firearm to an FFL, I request a brief note on letterhead w serial #, description and date. If thy are unwilling then I move on to another one.

Thats how I do it. I am sure others will claim I am either falling short or going overboard. Whatev.

 

[mousegunfan]

You transferred it to an ffl. You don't need to do anything else. Just make a note to yourself of the gun, date and what ffl incase anyone ever asks. Same deal if it was a MA ffl trade. The only difference in MA is if he sells it to another MA person their will be another transfer record of the gun.

 

[92G]

At minimum, you can use the EZcheck system to lookup their FFL #, then just keep a record for yourself so if for some crazy unlikely reason you legally need to show how you transferred the gun, you can at least point them to whichever FFL received it.

 

[geoguy8]

thanks guys- As I thought, seems there's no straight forward way to be responsible in this state- I will copy and save the KTP rects with dates, serial numbers, etc and forget about it....

 

[92G]

Another thing you can do in the future is write a template letter, then fill in serial # description and date. Ask them to fill in FFL# and a signature. Any FFL should be fine w that. Otherwise they should provide it on their own letterhead.
i have had some FFLs refuse so i then refuse to do any business w them.
nothing personal.....i see my request as reasonable especially for those w careers where absurd gun lliability is important (even if remote)

 

[AntiHippie]

I don't think I could ever, EVER move back to MA again. Out here, the only requirement for face to face sales is that you pay the agreed upon price.

 

[dcmdon]

thanks guys- As I thought, seems there's no straight forward way to be responsible in this state- I will copy and save the KTP rects with dates, serial numbers, etc and forget about it....

Its got nothing to do with being responsible. You were responsible in that you followed the law. Your job is done. Why make more work for yourself than you need to. You don't even need to save the receipts. It never hurts, but if someone ever asks what happened to the gun "I don't remember the details, I sold it out of state" is a perfectly valid response.

I realize that would be pushing it in MA since you don't have to break the law to be deemed unfit to exercise your 2A "rights".

But in almost any other state you could tell anyone who questioned you about a sale to go pound sand.

 

[mbullism]

Its got nothing to do with being responsible.

This^

I ran into the same thing with a rifle i sold on gunbroker that headed out to Oklahoma... The law requires transfers to be reported, the efa-10 wouldn't accept it so I used a serialized paper form, and sent it certified mail... kept a copy. I've got a copy of the FFL's license it went to, and post office receipts showing it shipped to same-

If anyone ever asked what happened to the gun I'm just going to say they already know...

 

[JGreen]

Chapter 140 section 128A is the exemption for having to submit an FA-10 when disposing of a gun through an FFL.

 

[drgrant]

So I traded a used long gun that has been registered in Mass for a new Long gun at the KTP in Maine. How do I report the "sale" of my old gun to KTP? The Electronic version wont accept the FFl# .....
Thanks guys

You don't. There is no requirement in the law to do this. Period.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

thanks guys- As I thought, seems there's no straight forward way to be responsible in this state- I will copy and save the KTP rects with dates, serial numbers, etc and forget about it....

Sure there is, you keep the license number of the FFL you sent it to.

What more are you looking for?

Jeez, drop the guilt man!

 

[drgrant]

Another thing you can do in the future is write a template letter, then fill in serial # description and date. Ask them to fill in FFL# and a signature. Any FFL should be fine w that. Otherwise they should provide it on their own letterhead.
i have had some FFLs refuse so i then refuse to do any business w them.
nothing personal.....i see my request as reasonable especially for those w careers where absurd gun lliability is important (even if remote)

If I was the dealer I'd give you a receipt on letterhead. Asking a dealer to sign some screwy document? Have fun with that, I'd probably tell you to go elsewhere, too.

-Mike

 

[Len-2A Training]

Chapter 140 section 128A is the exemption for having to submit an FA-10 when disposing of a gun through an FFL.

Jason Guida claimed otherwise (when he was FRB Director). In any case, they don't make it easy to get it out of your name. I can think of reasons why it would be wise to have submitted something in advance declaring that I no longer own it.

 

[DONALDG-HOG]

IMO this is a good system. I will usually keep a copy of the rec. FFL and write notes on it. They can check with the ATF if they like.

I have heard many different perspectives on this.

It has been explained to me that there is no way to "remove" a firearm once its in the FA10 system. In otherwords, it isnt a list of current owned firearms but rather everything you have owned.

IMO its retarded in general, so I do like to keep record that the firearm was lawfully transferred to an FFL just in case someone accuses me of either unlawfully selling it or committing a crime w it.

personally if i transfer a firearm to an FFL, I request a brief note on letterhead w serial #, description and date. If thy are unwilling then I move on to another one.

Thats how I do it. I am sure others will claim I am either falling short or going overboard. Whatev.

 

[dcmdon]

Chapter 140 section 128A is the exemption for having to submit an FA-10 when disposing of a gun through an FFL.

Does it say the FFL has to be in-state?

Because thats how most out of state sales go. The seller ships to an out of state FFL.

Be careful when reading the language. Most MGLs, when they refer to a "dealer" are referring to the MA dealer license.

Can you post a link to the law?

Thanks,

Don

 

[dcmdon]

IMO this is a good system. I will usually keep a copy of the rec. FFL and write notes on it. They can check with the ATF if they like.

Remember a couple of things. If an out of state PD calls a dealer and asks for a simple confirmation, the dealer will most likely ask the person contacting them to send it in writing. Its just the right thing to do simply because its too easy to impersonate someone over the phone.

With that said, the out of state dealer has no legal requirement to submit to a request for records from an out of state LE Agency. It would not be unreasonable for that dealer to reply with something like "Please contact the ATF. I'd be happy to comply with a request from them. "

Don

 

[jasons]

Can you post a link to the law?

Google is amazing. https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section128a

Section 128A. The provisions of section one hundred and twenty-eight shall not apply to any person who, without being licensed as provided in section one hundred and twenty-two, sells or transfers a firearm, rifle or shotgun to a person licensed under said section one hundred and twenty-two, or to a federally licensed firearms dealer or to a federal, state or local historical society, museum or institutional collection open to the public.

FRB wrong again. Shocker.

 

[DrRansom]

In any case, they don't make it easy to get it out of your name. I can think of reasons why it would be wise to have submitted something in advance declaring that I no longer own it.

That's what I thought too; I had called them a few months ago, and they said fill out a paper FA-10 with you as the seller, as the electronic system doesn't have provisions for such a transaction. I remember it being a bit weird, but I just did that and sent it in, and haven't heard back.

 

[drgrant]

Does it say the FFL has to be in-state?

Because thats how most out of state sales go. The seller ships to an out of state FFL.

Be careful when reading the language. Most MGLs, when they refer to a "dealer" are referring to the MA dealer license.

Can you post a link to the law?

Thanks,

Don

In addition to what Jason stated, there's also a solid argument that if you bring a gun outside of MA and sell it lawfully to an FFL it's none of the MA gov's business regardless. They have no jurisdiction.... this is not much different than a guy who buys a long gun in NH, keeps it there, and never brings it into MA, and never registers it here. The activity is not within the state's legal authority to control it.

-Mike

 

[jasons]

....the electronic system doesn't have provisions for such a transaction....

That's because there's no legal requirement to report such a transaction.

This is pretty interesting too:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section129c

No person shall sell, give away, loan or otherwise transfer a rifle or shotgun or ammunition other than (a) by operation of law, or (b) to an exempt person as hereinafter described, or (c) to a licensed dealer, or (d) to a person who displays his firearm identification card, or license to carry a pistol or revolver.

Anyone else notice what's missing there?

 

[dcmdon]

In addition to what Jason stated, there's also a solid argument that if you bring a gun outside of MA and sell it lawfully to an FFL it's none of the MA gov's business regardless. They have no jurisdiction.... this is not much different than a guy who buys a long gun in NH, keeps it there, and never brings it into MA, and never registers it here. The activity is not within the state's legal authority to control it.

-Mike

MA certainly has no say in what you do out of state. Contrary to what some people seem to think.

It all comes down to whether or not you live or will be continuing to live in state. I've been given a lot of bad advice since I became a
resident of "the commonwealth", but some of the best advice I received was that I had no legal RIGHT to own firearms in MA and that i should
let that drive my behavior.

Its very sobering. In CT I've told cops to go pound sand. I've refused to show ID while shooting long guns and will continue to do so, in CT.
In MA I would never do any of those things because the law does not matter. All that has to happen for me to lose my "right" to keep firearms is that my CLEO finds me to be "unsuitable".

So while I don't do idiotic things like put trigger locks on my guns for transport. I'll certainly never refuse ID to a LEO who asks for it. Sad.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Remember, if your objective is to REMOVE the gun from the MA database wrt your ownership, filing an FA-10 showing that you transferred it to a dealer (in MA or outside MA) is a good idea. [Upon request from a PD, they will be sent a "certified list" of guns you own from FRB . . . that will only show a gun if you are the LAST KNOWN owner in MA. Yes, this is different from the list of "everything" that any PD can run at any time.]

So putting the law aside, it isn't a bad thing to notify that you no longer possess something.

 

[dcmdon]

Remember, if your objective is to REMOVE the gun from the MA database wrt your ownership, filing an FA-10 showing that you transferred it to a dealer (in MA or outside MA) is a good idea. [Upon request from a PD, they will be sent a "certified list" of guns you own from FRB . . . that will only show a gun if you are the LAST KNOWN owner in MA. Yes, this is different from the list of "everything" that any PD can run at any time.]

So putting the law aside, it isn't a bad thing to notify that you no longer possess something.

Len and I have talked about this kind of thing. I had a hard time grasping this coming from a state where you had a right to own firearms. My natural instinct is to say "none of your business" if I am ever questioned about ownership of a firearm. Unfortunately, that doesn't play well in MA.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Len and I have talked about this kind of thing. I had a hard time grasping this coming from a state where you had a right to own firearms. My natural instinct is to say "none of your business" if I am ever questioned about ownership of a firearm. Unfortunately, that doesn't play well in MA.

Sadly no, in most cases this will cost you your "privilege" (you have NO "rights" in MA) of ever owning firearms in MA and you will lose everything you own which for many can be tens of thousands of dollars!

 

[dcmdon]

I agree completely. I hope I got that point across in my post. I would NOT ever do or say that in MA. Its a losing proposition.

 

[Jbarila]

I have never cared. Screw them if they cant keep track.

 

[jasons]

Remember, if your objective is to REMOVE the gun from the MA database wrt your ownership, filing an FA-10 showing that you transferred it to a dealer (in MA or outside MA) is a good idea. [Upon request from a PD, they will be sent a "certified list" of guns you own from FRB . . . that will only show a gun if you are the LAST KNOWN owner in MA. Yes, this is different from the list of "everything" that any PD can run at any time.]

So putting the law aside, it isn't a bad thing to notify that you no longer possess something.

Assuming that one did take the extra legal measure of reporting a sale to an FFL, what evidence do we have that the FRB would take the gun off the list? Further assuming you can even find a paper FA-10 form that is.

 

[not new guy]

Remember, if your objective is to REMOVE the gun from the MA database wrt your ownership, filing an FA-10 showing that you transferred it to a dealer (in MA or outside MA) is a good idea. [Upon request from a PD, they will be sent a "certified list" of guns you own from FRB . . . that will only show a gun if you are the LAST KNOWN owner in MA. Yes, this is different from the list of "everything" that any PD can run at any time.]

So putting the law aside, it isn't a bad thing to notify that you no longer possess something.

What benefit is there to improving the quality of the data in the MA database?

 

[dcmdon]

Assuming that one did take the extra legal measure of reporting a sale to an FFL, what evidence do we have that the FRB would take the gun off the list? Further assuming you can even find a paper FA-10 form that is.

The FFL needs to keep a record of that transfer forever. if they ever came looking, you could direct them to the FFL and their bound book.

- - - Updated - - -

What benefit is there to improving the quality of the data in the MA database?

I agree with your sentiment. If I was moving out of state I would make no effort to update them.

Many cops believe that the "registration" database is right. They are unaware of the many ways that it can be incorrect, with no laws having been broken. This is a dangerous situation.