I was told that ALL Kimber handguns are not Ma compliant and can't be purchased new or used in Ma from a shop/dealer, but it is legal to purchase one if it is a private party sale. Can someone clarify and or verify this? If this is true, could a Kimber be purchased on GunBroker.com and transferred through a Ma FFL, or would that be violating the dealer clause? I really want a Kimber PRO CARRY II and I'm wondering if it's even possible? Any info/guidance is greatly appreciated.
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How to Purchase a Kimber in Ma?
- Thread starter Cobra Guy
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It could NOT be transferred through a MA FFL.
It COULD be picked up out of state without use of an FFL if you find someone who is near death, pay him to bequest the gun to you, and then go pick the gun up after he dies then file an FA-10 upon return to MA. Inheritance is one non-LEO exception to interstate transfer of handguns between parties without use of an FFL.
[shhh -jdubois]
It COULD be picked up out of state without use of an FFL if you find someone who is near death, pay him to bequest the gun to you, and then go pick the gun up after he dies then file an FA-10 upon return to MA. Inheritance is one non-LEO exception to interstate transfer of handguns between parties without use of an FFL.
[shhh -jdubois]
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You can't get one through a dealer, nor through GunBroker. If you buy one through GunBroker they have to ship to dealer...which can't sell it to you.
You have to buy it private sale.
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
How is that if everyone involved can legally posess the items in question? A straw purchase is for someone who could not legally acquire the item themselves.
There's a couple of things going on here.
First of all, you can buy a Kimber in MA. You just have to work harder at finding one. I'll leave that to you as to how.
Secondly, there is a forbidden fruit issue.
Yes, the Kimber's are fine firearms, but just because you can't get one here doesn't mean they are the absolute best thing since sliced bread.
Smith makes an excellent 1911, at least the quality of a Kimber.
Don't reinvent the wheel![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
First of all, you can buy a Kimber in MA. You just have to work harder at finding one. I'll leave that to you as to how.
Secondly, there is a forbidden fruit issue.
Yes, the Kimber's are fine firearms, but just because you can't get one here doesn't mean they are the absolute best thing since sliced bread.
Smith makes an excellent 1911, at least the quality of a Kimber.
Don't reinvent the wheel
Not quite right. For it to (legally) cross an MA dealer, it has to be "papered pre 98 exempt..." which means it must have been in the state on (or before, according to many) 10/21/98. Merely being made before 10/21/98 is not enough because none of the Kimbers are on the EOPS roster.
-Mike
This is a common falsehood... Legally speaking, A straw purchase is far, far wider in scope than that.... even if all the people involved are NOT prohibited persons, a straw can still occur given certain parameters. If you read the way the law is written, this is readily apparent. People have been indicted for straws where there were no prohibited persons and there was no illegal intentions. (See also, Michael Lara case).
-Mike
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A straw purchase occurs when someone answers question 12a (are you the actual buyer?) on the form 4473 untruthfully. Period.
Too bad it wasn't that simple.
If it's a gift then you are the actual buyer.
Yes, you're right. It sounds simple, but ATF has made the question of what an "actual buyer" is complicated. My point was that it doesn't matter if everybody involved is "legal", it's still a "straw purchase". Also, because no 4473 form is involved, if you engage in a straw purchase that doesn't involve dealers it isn't a "straw purchase" (though you can still get in trouble for furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person).
Asaltweapon
NES Member
Kimbers are very nice. Are they as nice out of the box as any custom 1911? Not close IMO.
They are a great gun for what they are. I have an out of state friend who collects them. In this commie state I think they have that "girl you can't have" influence in owning them. That said, if the right gun came up for availability for the right price at the right time I might buy it. I'm not willing to part with 400 or so extra "just to say" I own one. I'll wait till I move. My job is the only reason I stay here anyway.
They are a great gun for what they are. I have an out of state friend who collects them. In this commie state I think they have that "girl you can't have" influence in owning them. That said, if the right gun came up for availability for the right price at the right time I might buy it. I'm not willing to part with 400 or so extra "just to say" I own one. I'll wait till I move. My job is the only reason I stay here anyway.
You need to do what I did. Find a friend who owns one and bug him about selling it to you until he does.
It helps if he's a big Glock fan.
And it worked for me twice.
It helps if he's a big Glock fan.
And it worked for me twice.
bfm
NES Member
Reading MA law it seemed ok as long as you resold to a licensed person and did the transfer legally. Guess I need to look at the Federal law.
Any person who uses said license to carry firearms or firearm identification card for the purpose of purchasing a firearm, rifle or shotgun for the unlawful use of another, or for resale to or giving to an unlicensed person, shall be punished by a fine of not less than one thousand nor more than fifty thousand dollars, or by imprisonment for not less than two and one-half years nor more than ten years in a state prison, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-131e.htm
The MA law is very simplistic and confined, and believe it or not, is easy to understand. Fed law on what does or does not constitute a straw purchase is rather complicated- because there is a possibility that actions which lack ANY cirminal intent can trigger the law, due to the wide scope of the law itself. EG: Joe LTC holder buys a gun for Bob LTC holder- while that might pass muster under MA law, depending on the circumstances of the transfers and how the money flows, it may violate federal law.
What really sucks is the Lara case shows that it is difficult for the feds to actually secure a conviction on the gray-er part of the law, but that doesn't mean it would stop
the feds from bringing one of those cases to court and ruining someone's life over it. (Lara was acquitted, but his LE career was set back by decades and he spent an
assload of money defending himself. - all because he was trying to do a favor for a friend by helping her buy a handgun. (well, that and one of her kids/grandson whoever he was, was a pothead which caused an LE inquiry which started the whole s**tstorm to begin with- if it wasn't for that, and a copy of the 4473 being found with the gun, it would have never been a "case" )
-Mike
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45collector
NES Member
Kimbers (1st series, as M1911 stated, are the best of the bunch) are nice guns, but I think the OP may be fixated on the name brand?
S&W makes quite a nice 1911, as others stated. I had one and sold it to fund another project. I definitely would have kept it otherwise. Ran beautifully.
You can find Colts in this state much easier than you can Kimbers. Kimbers may be considered "higher shelf" than Colts, but I'll take a series 70 or 80 Colt over a Kimber any day. But that's just me. I'm a traditionalist when it comes to 1911s.
S&W makes quite a nice 1911, as others stated. I had one and sold it to fund another project. I definitely would have kept it otherwise. Ran beautifully.
You can find Colts in this state much easier than you can Kimbers. Kimbers may be considered "higher shelf" than Colts, but I'll take a series 70 or 80 Colt over a Kimber any day. But that's just me. I'm a traditionalist when it comes to 1911s.
Kimber
My Kimber Eclipse Pro II was my first handgun. I bought here in MA from a dealer. It only haad about 150 rounds through it. I still wasn't boken in yet. The dealer owned the gun for personal use. I bought it through him and not through the store.
Hope that helps.
My Kimber Eclipse Pro II was my first handgun. I bought here in MA from a dealer. It only haad about 150 rounds through it. I still wasn't boken in yet. The dealer owned the gun for personal use. I bought it through him and not through the store.
Hope that helps.
I like 70 or 80 Series Colts, but for me, I end up needing to have a number of modifications done to them.
First, the original, small military-style sights don't work with my ~50-year-old eyes. I prefer something like a Heinie sight. Second, the original, military style grip safety digs into the web of my hand. I prefer a beavertail grip safety. Third, I find it harder to access the military style thumb safety than a mildly extended thumb safety. All of these changes are easily performed by a gunsmith, but at the cost of several hundred dollars. I think a Colt is an excellent starting place for a good 1911, but for me it is just a starting place. YMMV.
For me, one of the advantages of a Kimber or S&W is that they come with those changes already made. Personally, I don't like the Schwarz style safety used in the Kimber II. S&W also uses a Swartz style safety, but its implementation seems to be done better than Kimber's. In addition, the external extractor on the Kimber II has been problematic. As a result of these two changes on the Kimber II, I simply don't trust them. I have, trust, and carry Kimber Is. YMMV.
FYI, I am not "fixated" on a name. Kimber makes a fine product and anyone that would argue that is delusional and misinformed.
The purpose of this thread was NOT to ask how to bend any rules or unlawfully obtain a Kimber. Just a simple question because many people do indeed own these guns in this State and I wanted to know what my options were to get one for myself. Some replies were helpful and on target. But as usual there are a hand full of replies that construed my question into a negative and unlawful inquiry, along with the "I wouldn't own one of those if you gave it to me" replies that are totally irrelevant and IMO B.S. I didn't ask what anyone thought about Kimbers so please keep your comments to yourself that are of topic and or saying "I would buy a S&W or a Colt instead". I didn't ask what other gun should I buy instead of a Kimber
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
. Some may have had good intentions when making those suggestions, but then some certainly did not and get off on crap like this. My main carry weapon is a Smith & Wesson so if I trust my life to one everyday then I would say that qualifies me as not thinking they are not up to my standards, so to speak. Why must there always be negative input and comments in almost every thread you read from the "peanut gallery"? It must be boredom or jealousy I can only speculate. If you don't have anything positive to contribute then just don't say anything at all. Thanks to all that where helpful.
I didn't ask what anyone thought about Kimbers so please keep your comments to yourself that are of topic and or saying "I would buy a S&W or a Colt instead". I didn't ask what other gun should I buy instead of a Kimber
Why must there always be negative input and comments in almost every thread you read from the "peanut gallery"? It must be boredom or jealousy I can only speculate. If you don't have anything positive to contribute then just don't say anything at all. Thanks to all that where helpful.
Maybe you should ask your dermatologist for some skin thickener?
When you ask a question on a public forum, you have to accept answers from the public. If you want to control who answers and what they answer, you should take it somewhere private.
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