M1911
Moderator
One of the attorneys on this site has said that when you are asleep a gun on the side table next to you is NOT under your control. I accept his legal opinion on this matter. YMMV.
-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS May Giveaway ***Canik METE SFX***
How do you lock your home gun?
- Thread starter Frankie2blue
- Start date
One of the attorneys on this site has said that when you are asleep a gun on the side table next to you is NOT under your control. I accept his legal opinion on this matter. YMMV.
I am planning on getting a DAC safe. From the information I could find these are as good as the any other.
Just a thought, why don't the gun companies make models that require the correct finger print on the grip in an appropriate spot. I am sure there are plenty of LEO's that would appriciate the security. I know I would.
Just a thought, why don't the gun companies make models that require the correct finger print on the grip in an appropriate spot. I am sure there are plenty of LEO's that would appriciate the security. I know I would.
Define Sleep!
Twigg
NES Member
No, the trigger is exposed. Basically, the shotgun hangs action open, on a hook which extends from the inside of the locked box up into the empty chamber. A second hook is screwed into a wall stud above the box and extends into the muzzle. The box itself clamps around the receiver with just enough room for some protective padding, and is secured into a wall stud with some heavy screws (which are inaccessible when the gun is in place). If a BG should manage to wrench the box (shotgun and all) out of the wall, he would still be unable to chamber a round and close the action.
In all, it's a very solid design... I just don't think I'd be able to unlock it, maneuver the gun off the hooks, and rack a round quickly enough, all while in the dark and under duress.
Also, it's worth mentioning that it's designed for use with a pump. It worked fine with my 870 (after I removed the sidesaddle shell carrier that is), but I don't think a semi's bolt handle would fit.
I picked mine up yesterday. I ordered it from Walmart.com and had it shipped to a local store. walmart_link. (Looks like they are currently out of stock). As I was already aware of from reading other peoples comments the shelf is borderline useless and the batteries are kind of annoying to install. It will be good for one pistol and a couple of mags plus the keys to big safe/cabinet. I have normal to large size hands and they don't naturally line up with all four buttons. Looks like I'll be using a code based on 3 out of 4 buttons.
M1911
Moderator
Twigg: I'm not telling anyone what to do or not to do. I'm trying to tell them what the law is so that they can make an informed decision.
If you are implying that I'm a sheep, I am greatly insulted by that.
If you are implying that I'm a sheep, I am greatly insulted by that.
What if it's under your pillow? Does the dead weight of my head somehow exert control over the firearm?
Seriously .. people here know the MGL's about storage. If they choose to bend them then we don't need to "remind" them what the damn law is.
Personally mine is on me until I go to bed then it's in the nightstand. I doubt someone will make it up the stairs before its out and aimed down their throat. Unless i'm really drunk or dead it's under my control while i'm sleeping. Of course if I was drunk i'd forget where the safe key was and if I was dead I couldn't tell anyone where to find the key so I guess we're safe.
I suppose those of you who think it's bad to keep a gun in your nightstand while you're sleeping 9" away think it's also bad to keep an unloaded pistol locked up in your car all day at work.
M1911
Moderator
Ask one of our local attorneys. Based on his previous statements on this subject, I would suspect not, but IANAL.
Many do, some may not. Do you know everyone who is reading this thread?
You HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER I THINK IT IS BAD OR NOT! Because I haven't said one way or not. It is your decision. I just want to make sure that lurkers or people who just pass by quickly realize what the law is so THEY CAN MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION!
I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do. I'm not arguing that this is a good law -- I disagree with it very strongly.
Last edited:
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Yes I know them all ... apparently you don't know your audience.
Relax buddy ... I wasn't saying you were arguing the law. You are right that it is the law and we need to know it. It's just overkill and cynical on your part to think that people here don't know about the basic Massachusetts laws we were forced to memorize to be worthy to own guns.
It's cool man really
MGLs aside, I've considered that. Nobody is gonna get my gun from under my pillow without waking me up.
However, one instance occurred relatively recently where I dreamed my fiancee was something out of the Exorcist, and we both woke up with my hand around her neck and my fist pulled back. Thankfully, nobody was hurt (and she was very gracious about the whole thing, if not exactly pleased), but this drove home for me that I cannot consider myself to be in control while asleep. Keeping it near my bed in a quick-access safe is a reasonable compromise for me, as I'm confident I'd need to be fully awake to open it up.
Note that I'm not suggesting that we should not have the right to keep our guns wherever we deem to be prudent... just that even if it is legal, I've made the choice not to have it in bed with me.
M1911
Moderator
I see. You've got 130 posts here and I've got 4000+. But you know the audience here far better than I? Sure. Right, buddy. Something here is very apparent, but it appears that we disagree about just what that is.
Huh? So, pal, what else was I talking about if not the law?
Huh? My honorable friend, is there some legal test that people have to pass in order to get a MA LTC? What are the questions on this test? Who administered it? What questions were on this test? What was the passing score?
It's cool man really
No coolness here, my esteemed colleague.
So my post count means anything? It'a a number dude.
Well if you want to be a dick the legal "test" you had to pass was your Massachusetts State Police approved firearms safety course where you were supposed to learn such basic laws as how to safely store your firearms in the Commonwealth.
Oh knock it off before you embarrass yourself on your next post. Someone like you with 4000+ should know better.
I just noticed you edited your earlier thread rather than posting. I'm not arguing the law with you. You're 100% correct in what you said about the MGL's and storage law. My only problem is that you feel it's your place to remind a bunch of people who have all gone to the class and gotten fed the safe storage bull dung what the law is. Maybe you should let your lawyer friend speak instead of you.
Last edited:
I won't get into a pissing match here and I won't offer any legal advice/opinions, but . . .
- Having met a fair number of active NES'rs in the past, there is a good population of >40 yo folks here on NES . . . folks that have had their LTCs long before 1998 when all the laws changed (were added). [IIRC, LTCs were issued at age 18 prior to the 1998 law, that means that anyone >28 may fit the category noted below.]
- We never had to take any course to get our LTC and legally were grandfathered from that requirement.
- Therefore, it is safe to assume that a fair number of readers may well not have had the safe storage law preached to them to get their LTCs.
- The whole issue of "in control" is a very subjective one, open to various interpretations and TTBOMK untested as of yet in the MA courts. [If I'm wrong here, Scriv will let me know, I am certain.![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
]
In closing, it is safest not to assume that the readers here KNOW the law and the various interpretations and thus clarification is a good thing.
- Having met a fair number of active NES'rs in the past, there is a good population of >40 yo folks here on NES . . . folks that have had their LTCs long before 1998 when all the laws changed (were added). [IIRC, LTCs were issued at age 18 prior to the 1998 law, that means that anyone >28 may fit the category noted below.]
- We never had to take any course to get our LTC and legally were grandfathered from that requirement.
- Therefore, it is safe to assume that a fair number of readers may well not have had the safe storage law preached to them to get their LTCs.
- The whole issue of "in control" is a very subjective one, open to various interpretations and TTBOMK untested as of yet in the MA courts. [If I'm wrong here, Scriv will let me know, I am certain.
]In closing, it is safest not to assume that the readers here KNOW the law and the various interpretations and thus clarification is a good thing.
Twigg
NES Member
Actually you are trying to tell people what to do, oh and thanks for the neg.
Perhaps, but just like the insane, obtuse, obscure and ineffective laws we have here, posting that sheep made me "feel better".
All of a sudden everyones a legal expert.
WTF does it matter to you what I do in the privacy of my bedroom ? Care to caution me against the use of unapproved sex positions while you're at it ?
I'm fairly sure most of the things we do in there aren't legal. Oh the horror !
Oh and I'll take my lump and not neg you back.
My gun will be on the table again tonight because there has been one home invasion and several unresolved burgularies in the past couple of days and when seconds count the police will be minutes away.
Last edited:
I'm in Mr. Twigg's area, and although my neighborhood is secluded and quiet I do not see it as safe enough to lock away my guns every night.
I have a giant Sentry safe in my bedroom that holds my guns and ammo. I carry everywhere I can go (and avoid the off limits places), and the guns that aren't on me are locked up in the safe, but fully loaded, except for the .22 rifle. When I go to bed, a handgun comes with me, and is under my control enough for me to sleep safely.
There's a lot of knowledgable folks here when it comes to MGL's and all of that stuff. I don't doubt that whichever lawyer stated that when asleep the gun's out of your direct control is well versed in the law, and I do appreciate the input.
All I know for sure is that in the middle of the night, I'm on my own with whoever may break into my house until help arrives. I won't fool around in the dark with an empty gun, bullets, a trigger lock, "quick-access" safe or anything else. The gun's ready to go, there's no little kids around, and everyone in my house can shoot and safely handle guns.
I'll gladly discuss the situation from top to bottom with the police and an attorney if (God forbid) it should come to that, but that will be when I am fully awake with time to think and not when I am in close quarters with some intruder.
I have a giant Sentry safe in my bedroom that holds my guns and ammo. I carry everywhere I can go (and avoid the off limits places), and the guns that aren't on me are locked up in the safe, but fully loaded, except for the .22 rifle. When I go to bed, a handgun comes with me, and is under my control enough for me to sleep safely.
There's a lot of knowledgable folks here when it comes to MGL's and all of that stuff. I don't doubt that whichever lawyer stated that when asleep the gun's out of your direct control is well versed in the law, and I do appreciate the input.
All I know for sure is that in the middle of the night, I'm on my own with whoever may break into my house until help arrives. I won't fool around in the dark with an empty gun, bullets, a trigger lock, "quick-access" safe or anything else. The gun's ready to go, there's no little kids around, and everyone in my house can shoot and safely handle guns.
I'll gladly discuss the situation from top to bottom with the police and an attorney if (God forbid) it should come to that, but that will be when I am fully awake with time to think and not when I am in close quarters with some intruder.
Wow, so much hostility in this thread! It was reasonable of M1911 to point out the law, and is also reasonable for all the adults here to make their own decisions about following it or not. In the immortal words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"
Hypothetically, if you buy yourself one of those bedside pistol cases and leave it open at night while you sleep, who's going to be able to say it wasn't locked?
Hypothetically, if you buy yourself one of those bedside pistol cases and leave it open at night while you sleep, who's going to be able to say it wasn't locked?
Some of you guys are just way over the top. M1911 has done nothing but give facts on this thread and in this forum in general. I never understood why people get so pissy over the "facts"- whether we like them or not. None of us like the current laws we have... however we should remember that this is a public forum- what you chose to do on your own is your business.
Do I think the requirement of having your guns under constant control is ridiculous? Yes, but for the most part this law doesn't screw me like others... with some exceptions. If I'm cleaning a gun(s) and they're on my table and I have to go the bathroom- is it reasonable to think that I'll take them with me? Unless I have a heart attack or the house suddenly catches on fire- it's not likely anyone will know. Do I personally think a couple without kids that keeps a gun on a night stand at bed time is doing something horrible???? No, I don't. Do I think it's wise to leave loaded guns unlocked all over the house with kids going in and out- no way. But it's a damn good idea to understand the current laws regardless. Ultimately what we each chose to do is up to us. I also feel I have an obligation to the gun owners in this state to make sure my gun only gets used when I want to.... and by no one else.
Do I think the requirement of having your guns under constant control is ridiculous? Yes, but for the most part this law doesn't screw me like others... with some exceptions. If I'm cleaning a gun(s) and they're on my table and I have to go the bathroom- is it reasonable to think that I'll take them with me? Unless I have a heart attack or the house suddenly catches on fire- it's not likely anyone will know. Do I personally think a couple without kids that keeps a gun on a night stand at bed time is doing something horrible???? No, I don't. Do I think it's wise to leave loaded guns unlocked all over the house with kids going in and out- no way. But it's a damn good idea to understand the current laws regardless. Ultimately what we each chose to do is up to us. I also feel I have an obligation to the gun owners in this state to make sure my gun only gets used when I want to.... and by no one else.
I'm going to throw a light hearted comment in here cause we need it...evidently...
Along the lines of leaving your key in the safe and door open- I walk my dog on the beaches of Cape Cod. I've been walking my dogs on one particular beach for nearly 3 dogs (at 12 years average age each-do the math) and recently a sign went up demanding that "all dogs be leashed." Now, I take the dog to the beach so she can chase the ball in the water, which for her, is like oral sex on free gun day would be for us, so you can imagine I was indignant when I saw that sign last year...
So, I comply. I simply attach a leash to her collar. The leash is approximately 7 inches long and hangs from her collar. She is, therefore, leashed. And yes, I have avoided tickets with that strategy. I was also made to pay one by a jackhole judge.
So....you can interpret that story as you will. I, myself, prefer the letter of the law.
indeed!
Raoul Duke said:
Ah, but "to leash" is to restrain by means of a leash or similar. So the physical leash is only half of the equation. If you are not restraining, you are not leashing. You could try the opposite approach, and leash the dog with a very long leash. Then you could argue that you are, in fact, leashing the dog, and the sign does not indicate what, exactly, you are to be leashing the dog from doing.
Good Point. That's probably why I am 3/1 with that strategy. The "1" which I was forced to pay, was justified by the judicial monkey in the manner which you've described. Frankly, I've found that this tactic is more successful with the work-a-day rangers who has some modicum of humor remaining in their toolbox. Once it gets to the judge-you loose. Isn't that always how it is?
Especially seeing how your house is protected 24/7 by those viscous attack kittens of yours!
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Personally, I keep my gun on me at all times, and when it's time to sleep, I attach a MA approved trigger lock, and promptly duct tape my gun to my genitals. That way I know where it is, and no one will be able to get it from me without severe resistance (tape glue attached to hair). I think this should cover me!
