How are the Stack On safes?

The goal here is some fire protection
Several points to consider:
1) Safes that offer "fire protection" use asbestos which makes them super heavy. Also, they emit fumes that cause corrosion.
2) "Fire protection certified" safes are certified that they will not allow the temperature inside the safe rise above 400F when exposed to direct fire for 10 minutes. 100% of plastics available on the market today will melt above 300F. The vast majority of plastic gun frames will start melting at just 250F. In other words, the fire protection in Gun safes is a dubious claim to say the least.
3) if the house is on fire, you have bigger problems than a few guns that might be damaged. You might be better off buying home insurance, which might already have if you have a mortgage. It's far cheaper to make sure you have your gun inventory and values up to date and in digital format than having a safe with dubious fire hazard protection.
 
Theft protection trumps fire protection for me. Homeowners insurance has a small cap for theft or mysterious disappearance of guns, but typically treats them under household contents limit if destroyed by fire. Another bonus of even the cheesiest "safe" it is provides physical evidence of perimeter breech for any theft report.
 
For your stated purpose, that Stack-On would be fine. It gives minimal fire protection (and, to be honest, if you have a bad enough fire to overcome it’s modest 1400 degrees for 30 minutes rating, you’ll probably have bigger concerns than your guns). And it certainly is better than their gun cabinets in terms of theft deterrence (particularly if you bolt it to the floor).

If you've got a pickup and are near a Tractor Supply you can save $50 by going with their Winchester 12 gun safe. Pretty much the same as the Stack-On (I wouldn’t be surprised if they were made by the same Chinese company). It’s $450 with curb side pickup.
 
The capacity numbers are bs. Once you add scopes or have pistol grips on rifles, the capacity is 1/2 what is claimed as the capacity.

Get as big as you can go, you won’t regret that, you will regret going smaller.
 
The Internet is FULL of videos on how easy it is to break into a safe using a simple 18V cordless tool so why do we keep talking about "This safe is good but this safe is better" when ALL of them are a 10 minute job with a grinder?
Most of these safes have asbestos in them or materials that emit corrosive gases? Again, tons of stories of these fancy safes ruining guns with rust.

it is FAR better to get the type of gun locker police and army use: a 1/4" welded cabinet with a bunch of holes for air circulation and weight reduction. Just google "Guns storage locker" to see the options.
I remember when I was putting in an alarm system. I was on the phone with customer service telling them I wanted window sensors for upstairs. The guy laughed and said no need because burglars aren't running around with ladders. I'm not the Bellagio and no one is casing my house for weeks coming up with a plan to steal whatever chicken feed I have in my house. Chances are anyone breaking into my house is jonesing for a fix and is looking for something quick they can sell or trade for a rock. Its all about layers. Like I said dont make it easy for them.
 
How do you know what I'm looking at isn't going to work? Sure, it's a maybe it'll last 20-30 mins in a fire, but a maybe is better than what is certain
I have a general idea about the subject.

Real fire rating is there but its money and not spacious.
 
Gentlemen, you're all focusing on prying, cordless tools, and whatever else a burglar is looking to use to break into the safe and that's not the focus as I expect any determined person will be able to bust open a safe if they have the time. The goal here is some fire protection and basic storage security that is better than nothing.
Just put them in your closet like everyone else. A few in each closet.
 
How do you know what I'm looking at isn't going to work? Sure, it's a maybe it'll last 20-30 mins in a fire, but a maybe is better than what is certain.
If there's a 20-30 min fire your house has a whole lot of damage, at that point just submit a claim on your homeowners insurance for any fire damage to your guns.
 
What ever you do, if you buy it in MA just remember that gun safes are sales tax exempt in MA so don’t let them try and charge you sales tax.
 
Several points to consider:
1) Safes that offer "fire protection" use asbestos which makes them super heavy. Also, they emit fumes that cause corrosion.
2) "Fire protection certified" safes are certified that they will not allow the temperature inside the safe rise above 400F when exposed to direct fire for 10 minutes. 100% of plastics available on the market today will melt above 300F. The vast majority of plastic gun frames will start melting at just 250F. In other words, the fire protection in Gun safes is a dubious claim to say the least.
3) if the house is on fire, you have bigger problems than a few guns that might be damaged. You might be better off buying home insurance, which might already have if you have a mortgage. It's far cheaper to make sure you have your gun inventory and values up to date and in digital format than having a safe with dubious fire hazard protection.
 
I remember when I was putting in an alarm system. I was on the phone with customer service telling them I wanted window sensors for upstairs. The guy laughed and said no need because burglars aren't running around with ladders. I'm not the Bellagio and no one is casing my house for weeks coming up with a plan to steal whatever chicken feed I have in my house. Chances are anyone breaking into my house is jonesing for a fix and is looking for something quick they can sell or trade for a rock. Its all about layers. Like I said dont make it easy for them.
This ,
 
I remember when I was putting in an alarm system. I was on the phone with customer service telling them I wanted window sensors for upstairs. The guy laughed and said no need because burglars aren't running around with ladders. I'm not the Bellagio and no one is casing my house for weeks coming up with a plan to steal whatever chicken feed I have in my house. Chances are anyone breaking into my house is jonesing for a fix and is looking for something quick they can sell or trade for a rock. Its all about layers. Like I said dont make it easy for them.

Burglars aren’t carrying ladders, but I see people leave ladders out leaning against their houses all the time.

Like you said though, don’t make your house an easy target and most of them will skip right passed your house for an easy score. Let’s be honest, most are lazy… if they weren’t they’d have jobs
 
it is FAR better to get the type of gun locker police and army use: a 1/4" welded cabinet with a bunch of holes for air circulation and weight reduction.
i am of a same exact opinion, as any massive safe with complicated locks is only meant to slow down your own access to it.
a thief will still crack it open in seconds.
 
Burglars aren’t carrying ladders, but I see people leave ladders out leaning against their houses all the time.

Like you said though, don’t make your house an easy target and most of them will skip right passed your house for an easy score. Let’s be honest, most are lazy… if they weren’t they’d have jobs
Crack head broke into my car in the driveway one night. Took the Bose ear buds I kept in the console for the gym. I made it easy by not locking the car.
 
If there's a 20-30 min fire your house has a whole lot of damage, at that point just submit a claim on your homeowners insurance for any fire damage to your guns.
Folks should read their homeowners policy carefully. The coverage for firearms could be less than their actual (or replacement) value. There are speciality insurers if you've more than 2 grand or so invested in guns.
 
Folks should read their homeowners policy carefully. The coverage for firearms could be less than their actual (or replacement) value. There are speciality insurers if you've more than 2 grand or so invested in guns.

Standard homeowners policies have a Special Limit of Liability for theft of firearms, typically $2,000. Some have enhancement endorsements that increase it a grand or two and throw in mysterious disappearance. Other carriers allow you to buy up to around $10K - $15K in blanket firearms theft coverage.

Aside from theft, firearms are covered like any other personal property (contents) which means they're covered for fire. Most people have replacement cost coverage on their contents, which would also include firearms (everyone should have replacement cost contents unless they're extreme skinflints) which would apply to covered losses other than theft i.e. fire. You don't need a specialty insurer if you have more than $2K in guns unless you want additional coverage for theft and/or you have guns w/ collectible value. Collectible guns are treated like any other personal property that has collectible value such as antiques or artwork, those items need to be scheduled on your policy w/ appraisals/valuations of some sort.
 
Folks should read their homeowners policy carefully. The coverage for firearms could be less than their actual (or replacement) value. There are speciality insurers if you've more than 2 grand or so invested in guns.
This usually only for loss by theft, loss or mysterious disappearance. Fire lost often treats them as part of the household contents limit. And many homeowners policies can be bought with a "replacement cost" endorsement at an extra fee.
 
This usually only for loss by theft, loss or mysterious disappearance. Fire lost often treats them as part of the household contents limit. And many homeowners policies can be bought with a "replacement cost" endorsement at an extra fee.
`The standard policy forms only include loss by theft, some will add mysterious disappearance by endorsement. No reputable agent will sell a policy without replacement cost on contents. Some providers such as Liberty will sell without replacement cost because their sales people only get paid on new biz commission and they absolutely could care less about coverages and they'll "forget" replacement cost if it saves $30 and it gets them the sale. Or they'll add a 2% - 5% special windstorm deductible to save a buck or two. Online direct providers (Progressive, Geico) will also write without RCC.
 
`The standard policy forms only include loss by theft, some will add mysterious disappearance by endorsement. No reputable agent will sell a policy without replacement cost on contents. Some providers such as Liberty will sell without replacement cost because their sales people only get paid on new biz commission and they absolutely could care less about coverages and they'll "forget" replacement cost if it saves $30 and it gets them the sale. Or they'll add a 2% - 5% special windstorm deductible to save a buck or two. Online direct providers (Progressive, Geico) will also write without RCC.
Are you saying that standard policy forms do not cover guns as household contents if they are destroyed by fire, but enough remains to prove what was lost and that it was destroyed?

People can easily forget that it is the boring stuff that adds to the depreciation on a major loss claim like a house fire. 20 year old couch; furniture; appliances; snowblowers; Dillon equipment; mattresses; case sizing machines; fantasy batman costume; etc. - it all can add up in a huge way. Some companies get clever and use the term "firearms and accessories" so you can't claim the glass separately.

One catch with replacement cost - there is usually an option to replace rather than pay. My wife had a claim on a diamond ring (scheduled) and the insurer sent us to a dealer in the Washington St Temple, er I mean jewelry building, for replacement. The dealer did a fantastic job and we were very satisfied - but it was not a "convert to cash" transaction (nor should it be if the insurer can make me whole at a lower cost).

A friend's condo was burgled - he lost a 1911, Colt det special and his wife lost a lot of gold chains (she channeled Mr T). His insurer offered him like kind/quality replacement of $$ equivalent to what it would cost the insurer for the replacement, not the insured value. He eventually got the 1911 out of the NYPD property room when the guy caught with it was ballistically perforated and DOA so they no longer needed the gun for evidence.
 
Last edited:
The capacity numbers are bs. Once you add scopes or have pistol grips on rifles, the capacity is 1/2 what is claimed as the capacity.

Get as big as you can go, you won’t regret that, you will regret going smaller.
I figure if I need more room, I'll buy a second safe. Two smaller safes are easier to move than one and if the day ever comes I downsize I can sell one of the safes.
 
What ever you do, if you buy it in MA just remember that gun safes are sales tax exempt in MA so don’t let them try and charge you sales tax.
I was not aware of this. Does this exemption apply to all safes guns can be stored in or just gun safes? I wouldn't mind getting a small floor safe just for pistols.
 
Are you saying that standard policy forms do not cover guns as household contents if they are destroyed by fire, but enough remains to prove what was lost and that it was destroyed?

People can easily forget that it is the boring stuff that adds to the depreciation on a major loss claim like a house fire. 20 year old couch; furniture; appliances; snowblowers; Dillon equipment; mattresses; case sizing machines; fantasy batman costume; etc. - it all can add up in a huge way. Some companies get clever and use the term "firearms and accessories" so you can't claim the glass separately.

One catch with replacement cost - there is usually an option to replace rather than pay. My wife had a claim on a diamond ring (scheduled) and the insurer sent us to a dealer in the Washington St Temple, er I mean jewelry building, for replacement. The dealer did a fantastic job and we were very satisfied - but it was not a "convert to cash" transaction (nor should it be if the insurer can make me whole at a lower cost).

A friend's condo was burgled - he lost a 1911, Colt det special and his wife lost a lot of gold chains (she channeled Mr T). His insurer offered him like kind/quality replacement of $$ equivalent to what it would cost the insurer for the replacement, not the insured value. He eventually got the 1911 out of the NYPD property room when the guy caught it with it was ballistically perforated and DOA so they no longer needed the gun for evidence.
I'm saying the opposite. Standard policy forms treat guns as household contents for covered causes of loss on the policy other than theft, such as fire. I have never seen "firearms or accessories" listed in the property coverage section of any of the standard homeowners forms and glass would be covered just like any other household contents anyway. I don't see what replacement cost coverage has to do w/ firearms vs glass.

How they'd determine what guns were destroyed would be the same process as anything else lost in a fire, although being mostly metal and usually in locked containers I wouldn't expect it to be very difficult to determine the extent of the loss.

And again, we're talking standard commercially available guns not guns w/ antique/collectible value which would be treated like any other items of antique/collectible value. For example: You have a Babe Ruth signed baseball when he was w/ the Sox in a case on the mantle. Priceless, right? Gets damage in a fire (which usually means soot/water damage). Unless you have an appraisal/certification of value and you schedule it on your policy as an antique/collectible, the adjuster will say "one baseball" you can buy a Rawlings at Walmart for $8.99 (unless you didn't have replacement cost coverage then they'll give you the depreciated $6.99 or something 🤣 ). High value antiques/collectible collections, including firearms, are usually best insured on specialty policies not homeowners policies.

Replace vs repay only applies to scheduled jewelry, not standard household contents - it says so right in the policy something to the effect: "we at our discretion may replace...." So if you lose one earring in a set, or one rock falls out of a ring, they can replace it of like kind and quality (i.e. size, cut, clarity). There's also the matter of inflated appraisals, I have heard radio commercials where they say they guarantee the item to appraise for twice what you paid for it - of course the insurance company isn't going to pay the appraised value if they can replace the same item at a lower cost than an inflated appraisal.

Again, the friends condo you mentioned involved theft of a firearm & jewelry where there are special limits of liability that apply. With fire or other covered causes of loss, firearms & jewelry are treated like any other household contents. If you don't carry replacement cost coverage, then they'll deduct for depreciation just like with any other household contents. If people don't know whether they have replacement cost coverage, can't do much about that.
 
If you have the space, get the larger safe.

I doubt anyone will disagree with me, if you have the space, that is. That 12 gun safe probably actually holds 8 with optics, if you're lucky. Want to put some pistols in there? More space tied up.

Want a bigger safe? Buy another. Twice as much work to break into as well.
 
Are you saying that standard policy forms do not cover guns as household contents if they are destroyed by fire, but enough remains to prove what was lost and that it was destroyed?
I have a separate rider on my homeowners insurance. It's for actual cash value of my firearms. It's for $200,000. It's about 1/2 what my homeowners insurance is. I also have to keep an up to date inventory with my insurance agent. I have 3 safes. All fire rated.
 
Gentlemen, you're all focusing on prying, cordless tools, and whatever else a burglar is looking to use to break into the safe and that's not the focus as I expect any determined person will be able to bust open a safe if they have the time. The goal here is some fire protection and basic storage security that is better than nothing.
If you dont have any collectable guns, pay for gun insurance. Eastern is $150 for $40K and $5K of ammo / reloading supplies.

They don't even require a safe.

If you want real fire protection, you need to pay $$$.
 
The best tool for electronic safe entry is the Taylor Systems Phoenix. It will electronically crack just about any electronic safe lock except the GSA rated ones not available for sale except to govt agencies. It does by analyzing out of band info leakage (every time you press a button it reads data - how much current draw, and probably other things like how long the beep if any, what happens when two numbers are pressed in rapid succession, etc. This can be designed around but nobody thought of it for a good while ... just like how ACE137 locks existed for decades before someone discovered the BIC stick pens double as tubular lockpicks.
 
I was not aware of this. Does this exemption apply to all safes guns can be stored in or just gun safes? I wouldn't mind getting a small floor safe just for pistols.
Officially it's
  • Commercial gun safes and trigger lock devices
Though their definition of safe is pretty broad since it includes Stack-On's simple storage cabinets. I think it has to be advertised as for gun storage.
 
Back
Top Bottom