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Home FFL In Massachusetts

drgrant said:
To actually do what you want legally you need an 07 FF (as well as the attendant MA licenses), and you ain't going to have one of those in your house in Mass, unless you're zoned in really weird area where you can have an outbuilding....
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Remember the issue with a home FFL in MA is the state license. You don't need a state license to get an FFL. There are plenty of other ways to engage in commerce in firearms without doing retail transfers.

The ATF has issued guidance that if you do basic upgrades to an existing gun and offer it for sale then you are doing manufacturing.
When I had my 07 FFL in CT, I would get in firearms that were non-compliant with the pre-2012 AWB and make them compliant, then offer them for sale. This is manufacturing per the ATF.

Another example is if you buy a milsurp rifle and install scope rings and a scope then install a spotter stock. This is manufacturing per the fed.
When I applied for my 07 FFL I provided this kind of documentation. I stated that I would be doing only light assembly (which is what putting together ARs and Glocks is by the way) using water based solvents.

My 07 was a slam dunk. It's the same in MA. In fact the zoning regs are easier in MA. Once you have your 07, it's simple to get a Class 2 SOT. You just pay it. There is no application.

At this point you have an 07 FFL with a Class 2 SOT and you can manufacture a machine gun 100% legally.
 
Len-2A Training said:
FRB is blowing smoke. Every MA based person selling strictly to those outside of MA do NOT have to have a MA Dealer's License. I have a friend/former co-worker who has an FFL out of his MA residence but sells strictly online to non-MA entities. He does not have a MA Dealer's license.

As for doing this wrt machine guns, that is not an area that I am knowledgeable about, so I'll pass to those much more knowledgeable of that area.
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You are absolutely correct. This is how it's done.

With respect to MGs, if the home based FFL has an 07 and personally has a green card there is no problem.

If he actually builds a MG he needs to either have paid the Class 2 SOT (Special Occupancy Tax) or pay the $200 per firearm.

Remember, the SOT doesn't allow you to do anything you otherwise couldn't do. Think of your $500/yr SOT tax as an all you can eat buffet. If you don't pay the SOT, then you pay $200 per firearm. Note that I am using the term "firearm" not "gun" because this includes silencers. Which are technically firearms per the NFA. And yes, they are silencer, not suppressors. The term suppressor is a trendy term that people like to use to make themselves sound smart. You can call it anything you want. But when discussing the law, they are silencers ONLY, simply because that is the term used in the law.
 
Mesatchornug said:
Much like you need an LTC to possess firearms, there's an additional license to lawfully possess MGs in MA. You go through a similar application process with your chief, just checking off the MG box on the first page. Then you'll get an additional card, with a green stripe on the top, that renews every 6 years, separate from your LTC. Not all chiefs will grant them, so you should chat with yours in advance to see if he will before applying.
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To expand on this. MA law allows the possession of a MG under 2 circumstances.
1) you give instruction to LE on the use of machine guns. (we are using the correct legal term, not the technically correct term. So its machine gun, not select fire or anything similar)

2) you are a "bona fide" collector and wish to add machine guns to your collection. Though it's not written in law, MA police seem to have agreed that if you have an 03 C&R FFL, you are a "bona fide" collector. So this is necessary for a green card in most of the towns that will issue them.
 
dcmdon said:
Remember the issue with a home FFL in MA is the state license. You don't need a state license to get an FFL. There are plenty of other ways to engage in commerce in firearms without doing retail transfers.

The ATF has issued guidance that if you do basic upgrades to an existing gun and offer it for sale then you are doing manufacturing.
When I had my 07 FFL in CT, I would get in firearms that were non-compliant with the pre-2012 AWB and make them compliant, then offer them for sale. This is manufacturing per the ATF.

Another example is if you buy a milsurp rifle and install scope rings and a scope then install a spotter stock. This is manufacturing per the fed.
When I applied for my 07 FFL I provided this kind of documentation. I stated that I would be doing only light assembly (which is what putting together ARs and Glocks is by the way) using water based solvents.

My 07 was a slam dunk. It's the same in MA. In fact the zoning regs are easier in MA. Once you have your 07, it's simple to get a Class 2 SOT. You just pay it. There is no application.

At this point you have an 07 FFL with a Class 2 SOT and you can manufacture a machine gun 100% legally.
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Yes, but in mass if you don't get the state licenses it's almost pointless. You can't transfer anything to MA peons at all, and you don't get awb immunity either.
 
drgrant said:
Yes, but in mass if you don't get the state licenses it's almost pointless. You can't transfer anything to MA peons at all, and you don't get awb immunity either.
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It's very useful.
1) you can sell to MA people and ship the gun to a local dealer.
2) you can sell and transfer receivers, FCUs and frames locally - remember that these aren't firearms per MA law and don't require a state license
3) you can possess silencers
4) you can build yourself a M4 style machine gun for less than $1000. You can build yourself a MP5SD machine gun for about $2500.
5) You can get non-MA pistols
6) You can sell NFA items out of state - you don't want to sell NFA items in state anyway. When you sell in state you need to wait months for the Form 4 to clear while your customer badgers you weekly. When you sell out of state, it takes a week for the Form 3 to clear. You shop to the out of state dealer and the transaction is over for you. The receiving dealer has to sit on the can/sbr/DD/AOW for months and deal with the customer.
7) Wholesalers will sell to you.
8) you can buy estates and pay pennies on the dollar for used guns and make much larger profits selling on GB than you would buying and selling new guns.
 
dcmdon said:
It's very useful.
1) you can sell to MA people and ship the gun to a local dealer.
2) you can sell and transfer receivers, FCUs and frames locally - remember that these aren't firearms per MA law and don't require a state license
3) you can possess silencers
4) you can build yourself a M4 style machine gun for less than $1000. You can build yourself a MP5SD machine gun for about $2500.
5) You can get non-MA pistols
6) You can sell NFA items out of state - you don't want to sell NFA items in state anyway. When you sell in state you need to wait months for the Form 4 to clear while your customer badgers you weekly. When you sell out of state, it takes a week for the Form 3 to clear. You shop to the out of state dealer and the transaction is over for you. The receiving dealer has to sit on the can/sbr/DD/AOW for months and deal with the customer.
7) Wholesalers will sell to you.
8) you can buy estates and pay pennies on the dollar for used guns and make much larger profits selling on GB than you would buying and selling new guns.
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Lol but you can't attach a f***ing silencer without threads on ARs and similar. Unless you use a lug device and weld it on. Or weld the can on.

You still have to shave lugs and pin stocks. f*** that.

You still have to use old shitty mags nobody wants.

You can't legally inbound guns with new postban mags. Have fun with that. That cuts the number of SKUs you have access to way down.

If you want to stay legal on free world guns you have to dance around the AWB.

In theory this would also apply to post sample MGs you build unless we're going to apply wishful logic they're not under the AWB.

f***. That, noise. 🤣

The AWB bullshit makes an 07 useless to me without a state license.
 
You can put a silencer on a pistol.

You can put a silencer on a pre-ban gun.

MGs are NOT covered by the AWB because they are not semi-automatic. Period.
So you can put a silencer on a MG.
If you like ARs, you could build every one up as a MG and not be subject to the MA AWB.

No, it's not perfect.

But its FIFTY DOLLARS PER YEAR!! Less than you spend on ammo for one range trip.

Im going to say it again. A 07 FFL cost $50 per year.

Every new gun is offered with a 10 round mag option. It's a thing. Separate SKUs on nearly everything.

An 07 FFL combined with a couple of pre-ban AR lowers and some pre-ban mags and you can make some money, and have a lot of fun while remaining within MA law.
Or better yet, build up every AR that you want to use as a MG and you are not subject to the AWB. The only down side to that is that a high quality trigger for a select fire gun, like the Gisele Super Select Fire , is ridiculously expensive.
 
@dcmdon there is an entire spectrum of new firearms not sold in pussy config. How do you get around that problem without involving another dealer? Lol.

New AK. Bzzzt. AK pistol. BZZZT. All kinds of other shit, not legal.
 
A little off topic, but what the heck
A couple weeks back I heard a quick mention on an NPR piece, and a couple references in MSM, don't ask me to link them I can't find them now. They were short comments about 07s that weren't really in the business of MGs. And it reminded me a lot of how attention slowly crept up on the wrist braces. Add to that the recent EO with it's directive for better enforcement over FFLs, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see some heightened attention on the 07s. Might be good to keep the records clear and exercise some discretion.

I don't have any skin in the game right now, but I do want to get an FFL (again) when I can get out of renting and back to home ownership.
 
I applied for my 07 two weeks ago. I’m surprised how much is “allowed” with just the FFL. I’m going to apply for the state license but have been told that the city inspection is basically at their time and discretion and can take anywhere from weeks to months to get done.

Although something does seem nice about not involving the city / state…
 
drgrant said:
Yes, but in mass if you don't get the state licenses it's almost pointless. You can't transfer anything to MA peons at all, and you don't get awb immunity either.
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You can transfer up to four per calendar year without need for a MA dealer's license, assuming of course, that the law is enforced as written.
 
Last edited:
Rob Boudrie said:
You're forgetting about the pesky $500 SOT, per year, per forever.
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Basically nothing for the privs it extends. Conversely a single pre 86 mg might be like 10 grand on the low end. That's 20 yrs worth of SOT payments. Or 60 years if we're comparing an RR m16, mp5 or something.
 
So if I’m understanding all of these comments correctly….

You can get an 07 FFL listing your home as the federal business address and DONT need a MA license to sell if you’re doing business out of state OR sending to a local FFL. Is that correct?

I know the FFL is federal and they don’t care about home FFL’s but does MA need to be aware you have a 07 FFL in any way?
 
Khackz said:
So if I’m understanding all of these comments correctly….

You can get an 07 FFL listing your home as the federal business address and DONT need a MA license to sell if you’re doing business out of state OR sending to a local FFL. Is that correct?

I know the FFL is federal and they don’t care about home FFL’s but does MA need to be aware you have a 07 FFL in any way?
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Local CoP will know, you are required to inform him.
 
drgrant said:
Basically nothing for the privs it extends. Conversely a single pre 86 mg might be like 10 grand on the low end. That's 20 yrs worth of SOT payments. Or 60 years if we're comparing an RR m16, mp5 or something.
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Plus, you pay the SOT every year for life to keep your 07 and legal authorization to possess MGs. Stop paying the SOT or let you 07 lapse, and you are no longer federally allowed to have MGs,, except for Pre-86 dealer samples you may transfer to yourself.
 
Khackz said:
So essentially we can have a 07 FFL in MA without the dealers license but we’re limited to online sales or selling to another FFL
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Yes, there are ways, but its not without limitations. Plus I can imagine having to still somehhow deal with CLEOs and other local officials getting to understand that "you're a dealer but not a typical MA dealer at the same time who is not selling to MA consumers" etc.
 
MAJoe said:
And don’t forget the whole, you need to be in the business of selling guns. This can’t be just a way to improve your personal collection.
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This is where I think the ATF will go next. Pick some arbitrary number of sales required to be in the business, or worse, go back to the primary source of income standard. I hope not since this would hurt a lot of part time shops and just about kill new ones. It isn't easy making money as an FFL, and starting out part-time is a better way to go.
 

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