Healey's office considering action against those who bought & sold rifles on July 20

Rob Boudrie said:
The AG has considerable authority to interpret her own regulations (see Auer deference). AS to the law - the AG can argue her position in court, however, I don't think "because the AG said so" is a valid legal argument. It must be based on statutory and case law.
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That will depend on the judges hearing the case, as Comm2A has learned!!! [rolleyes]
 
Rob Boudrie said:
The AG has considerable authority to interpret her own regulations (see Auer deference). AS to the law - the AG can argue her position in court, however, I don't think "because the AG said so" is a valid legal argument. It must be based on statutory and case law.
Click to expand...

Statutory and case law no longer applies. The 'law' has become very subjective and justice is a moving target. If you want an example look at Hillary skating scott free after the FBI said she broke the law.
 
slipknot said:
How do people even know what her authority is or is not? Where do you get this info on both those points being outside her Authority? I can't find anything anywhere to back up what Gov. Baker states verbally, that she has the authority to re interpret the AWB law.

I know their are different branches of government and each one has their job, but where is it written about her description of authority of what she can and cannot do as AG?
Click to expand...

Thought that the courts interpret the law? But who knows these days? Nobody ****in follows the Constitution anymore anyways.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
The AG has considerable authority to interpret her own regulations (see Auer deference). AS to the law - the AG can argue her position in court, however, I don't think "because the AG said so" is a valid legal argument. It must be based on statutory and case law.
Click to expand...

Right and we aren't speaking about a regulation here. Her backdoor approach roundabout way of doing this on her own instead of going before court is what should get her fired. You are correct, the I said so doesn't fly. The answer I got from a state representative was "this is Massachusetts". [shocked][rolleyes] so validating corruption is allowed in our state where it all began not too long ago. Wonderful

I can't wait for this to all go away, it has driven me nuts
 
slipknot said:
How do people even know what her authority is or is not? Where do you get this info on both those points being outside her Authority? I can't find anything anywhere to back up what Gov. Baker states verbally, that she has the authority to re interpret the AWB law.

I know their are different branches of government and each one has their job, but where is it written about her description of authority of what she can and cannot do as AG?
Click to expand...

The short answer is, until she is challenged in court or the legislature says otherwise, her authority extends as far as she claims it does.

The state constitution is rather silent as to the AG's authority on most matters. The SJC has found the office of the attorney general to have the general common law authority to prosecute criminal violations. This goes back to the days when attorneys general were the only government prosecutors. Beyond that the AG has statutory authority to create certain regulations. The courts will generally show deference to those regulations. For example, chapter 93A gives the AG authority over consumer protection. This is where the handgun regs come in. Courts also show executive agencies deference when that agency is tasked with carrying out a statute.

However, this enforcement notice is not a duly promulgated regulation or directly tied to ANY regulatory authority. Issuing regulations requires going through an appropriate process involving public hearings and input. I also see nothing in the state's assault weapons ban that tasks the AG with its enforcement.

This leaves Healey with her general authority to prosecute violations of firearms statutes. What she appears to be saying is, she may choose to prosecute people who transfer/possess certain rifles after 7/20/16 and the enforcement notice lays out the argument she will make in court. Such a pre-prosecutorial announcement (AFAIK) is not owed any deference by the courts, so she is going about all of this in a way that blurs lines hoping that people won't see through her smoke and mirrors. The problem for us is that she may be throwing enough of a smoke screen for the SJC to allow itself to be fooled.
 
all the points made above are the reasons we need to control this through the voting. "nobody follows the constitution anymore" great comment and very true. This is why we need politicians in office that appoint judges who will follow the constitution. All the current hacks need to be fired. but until their is a credible threat to their jobs and pocketbooks they will dispense justice anyway they see fit. I think Wallace said it the other night. We can't make this fight about guns. We have to make it about boundaries of the government and the constitution and how the AG is hurting families. I believe a person said something to me about it the other night. She used the term "Unintended Consequences". I think she was referring to a book. But the concept is sound. This will have further reaching consequences than any of us can imagine if it is left to stand.
 
robjax said:
all the points made above are the reasons we need to control this through the voting. "nobody follows the constitution anymore" great comment and very true. This is why we need politicians in office that appoint judges who will follow the constitution. All the current hacks need to be fired. but until their is a credible threat to their jobs and pocketbooks they will dispense justice anyway they see fit. I think Wallace said it the other night. We can't make this fight about guns. We have to make it about boundaries of the government and the constitution and how the AG is hurting families. I believe a person said something to me about it the other night. She used the term "Unintended Consequences". I think she was referring to a book. But the concept is sound. This will have further reaching consequences than any of us can imagine if it is left to stand.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what to tell you here. In general, people that pass broad scale criticism never end up on the top. No one likes a negative Nancy.

Let me tell you what I really think, and I'll probably delete this post in a day or two anyway. (unless it gets quoted [laugh])

It's lost. There is no hope. This ban will stand because we allowed it to. Anyone who'd like to know exactly who's to blame, shut your smart phone or computer monitor off and then have a look at it. If there is hope - it's Trump beating Hillary and Maura realizing she doesn't have Federal backing any longer.

The people that give a flying F about government accountability are outnumbered. Demographically and otherwise.

This board, like so many others is overwhelmed by left leaning people who believe owning a firearm makes them a hard ass conservative.
Liberal tendencies is what got us here, and what will get us further down the shit pile.

So, everyone, keep voting for everyone else's freedoms, while the sharks you vote for in the name of felling good with your own sorry asses keep biting your boat off, 'till they finally get you.

Keep watching a report on an ultra-liberal outlet and thinking "Oh my that must be the truth, after all, they are a credible source".

I won't expand any longer than that, anyone that knows me personally has already heard the 25 minute lecture/rant about "how this whole thing with Maura shows courage and freedom are thing of the past, in Massachusetts."

I wanted to say "In America", but I haven't lived in America for more than 6 years now, I hope things are different and for the better.
 
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Mr. Gold said:
I'm not sure what to tell you here. In general, people that pass broad scale criticism never end up on the top. No one likes a negative Nancy.

Let me tell you what I really think, and I'll probably delete this post in a day or two anyway. (unless it gets quoted [laugh])

It's lost. There is no hope. This ban will stand because we allowed it to. Anyone who'd like to know exactly who's to blame, shut your smart phone or computer monitor off and then have a look at it. If there is hope - it's Trump beating Hillary and Maura realizing she doesn't have Federal backing any longer.

The people that give a flying F about government accountability are outnumbered. Demographically and otherwise.

This board, like so many others is overwhelmed by left leaning people who believe owning a firearm makes them a hard ass conservative.
Liberal tendencies is what got us here, and what will get us further down the shit pile.

So, everyone, keep voting for everyone else's freedoms, while the sharks you vote for in the name of felling good with your own sorry asses keep biting your boat off, 'till they finally get you.

Keep watching a report in a ultra-liberal outlet and thinking "Oh my that must be the truth".

I won't expand any longer than that, anyone that knows me personally has already heard the 25 minute lecture/rant about "how this whole thing with Maura shows courage and freedom are thing of the past,
in Massachusetts."

I wanted to say "In America", but I haven't lived in America for more than 6 years now, I hope things are different and for the better.
Click to expand...

Good stuff! Quoted for historical reference! [smile]
 
cb1 said:
The short answer is, until she is challenged in court or the legislature says otherwise, her authority extends as far as she claims it does.

The state constitution is rather silent as to the AG's authority on most matters. The SJC has found the office of the attorney general to have the general common law authority to prosecute criminal violations. This goes back to the days when attorneys general were the only government prosecutors. Beyond that the AG has statutory authority to create certain regulations. The courts will generally show deference to those regulations. For example, chapter 93A gives the AG authority over consumer protection. This is where the handgun regs come in. Courts also show executive agencies deference when that agency is tasked with carrying out a statute.

However, this enforcement notice is not a duly promulgated regulation or directly tied to ANY regulatory authority. Issuing regulations requires going through an appropriate process involving public hearings and input. I also see nothing in the state's assault weapons ban that tasks the AG with its enforcement.

This leaves Healey with her general authority to prosecute violations of firearms statutes. What she appears to be saying is, she may choose to prosecute people who transfer/possess certain rifles after 7/20/16 and the enforcement notice lays out the argument she will make in court. Such a pre-prosecutorial announcement (AFAIK) is not owed any deference by the courts, so she is going about all of this in a way that blurs lines hoping that people won't see through her smoke and mirrors. The problem for us is that she may be throwing enough of a smoke screen for the SJC to allow itself to be fooled.
Click to expand...

Thanks, you sound like you know the law.
We hope the problem doesn't pan out.
Hopefully the nightmare that is Clinton, will lose in November
 
Mr. Gold said:
I'm not sure what to tell you here. In general, people that pass broad scale criticism never end up on the top. No one likes a negative Nancy.

Let me tell you what I really think, and I'll probably delete this post in a day or two anyway. (unless it gets quoted [laugh])

It's lost. There is no hope. This ban will stand because we allowed it to. Anyone who'd like to know exactly who's to blame, shut your smart phone or computer monitor off and then have a look at it. If there is hope - it's Trump beating Hillary and Maura realizing she doesn't have Federal backing any longer.

The people that give a flying F about government accountability are outnumbered. Demographically and otherwise.

This board, like so many others is overwhelmed by left leaning people who believe owning a firearm makes them a hard ass conservative.
Liberal tendencies is what got us here, and what will get us further down the shit pile.

So, everyone, keep voting for everyone else's freedoms, while the sharks you vote for in the name of felling good with your own sorry asses keep biting your boat off, 'till they finally get you.

Keep watching a report on an ultra-liberal outlet and thinking "Oh my that must be the truth, after all, they are a credible source".

I won't expand any longer than that, anyone that knows me personally has already heard the 25 minute lecture/rant about "how this whole thing with Maura shows courage and freedom are thing of the past, in Massachusetts."

I wanted to say "In America", but I haven't lived in America for more than 6 years now, I hope things are different and for the better.
Click to expand...

For some reason people keep thinking that you're going to win by playing within the rules. Haven't they been paying attention?

Politics is the art of inflicting pain on a competing team of people who are trying to use the power of the government to achieve their aims. This is why the founders of this country wanted the government as small as possible - and thought that political parties were NOT beneficial to "the people". But go try and make that argument to even the majority of "conservatives" - and watch how far it gets you.

When you adopt dumbass attitudes towards things - then you suffer the consequences. That's the way the world works.

This is why I think all the protests are - in the end - not going to accomplish a goddam thing. This is why I keep - incessantly - saying that one of the best ways to possibly get some traction on getting this fixed - is to make sure LEO's feel the same pain.

I agree with most of what you're saying - but I don't see much of anything changing here - because I don't see people even comprehending how fu(cked they are - and taking appropriate action.
 
Jason Flare said:
We wanted the dealers to stand up for us, are we going to stand up for the dealers?
Click to expand...

People who expected the dealers to carry the entire weight on this are delusional.

That being said - if dealers get caught up in this shit - we should do something to help them out. Maybe an effort thru GOAL or Comm2A.
 
Mr. Gold said:
I'm not sure what to tell you here. In general, people that pass broad scale criticism never end up on the top. No one likes a negative Nancy.

Let me tell you what I really think, and I'll probably delete this post in a day or two anyway. (unless it gets quoted [laugh])

It's lost. There is no hope. This ban will stand because we allowed it to. Anyone who'd like to know exactly who's to blame, shut your smart phone or computer monitor off and then have a look at it. If there is hope - it's Trump beating Hillary and Maura realizing she doesn't have Federal backing any longer.

The people that give a flying F about government accountability are outnumbered. Demographically and otherwise.

This board, like so many others is overwhelmed by left leaning people who believe owning a firearm makes them a hard ass conservative.
Liberal tendencies is what got us here, and what will get us further down the shit pile.

So, everyone, keep voting for everyone else's freedoms, while the sharks you vote for in the name of felling good with your own sorry asses keep biting your boat off, 'till they finally get you.

Keep watching a report on an ultra-liberal outlet and thinking "Oh my that must be the truth, after all, they are a credible source".

I won't expand any longer than that, anyone that knows me personally has already heard the 25 minute lecture/rant about "how this whole thing with Maura shows courage and freedom are thing of the past, in Massachusetts."

I wanted to say "In America", but I haven't lived in America for more than 6 years now, I hope things are different and for the better.
Click to expand...

You have inspired me.

Please contribute to TRUMP

https://secure.donaldjtrump.com/donate

I just did (again)
 
Mr. Gold said:
This board, like so many others is overwhelmed by left leaning people who believe owning a firearm makes them a hard ass conservative.
Liberal tendencies is what got us here, and what will get us further down the shit pile.
Click to expand...

Oh Boy! Ain't that the truth!
 
cb1 said:
The short answer is, until she is challenged in court or the legislature says otherwise, her authority extends as far as she claims it does....
Click to expand...

robjax said:
all the points made above are the reasons we need to control this through the voting...
Click to expand...

All very valid. It is very much smoke and mirrors, loosely based on distortion of existing laws. Ch 93A is about protecting consumers against unfair competition and deception, not rewriting law to deny consumer purchase. Yes, we have to win the "votes" but not necessarily with all the overhead of formal voting. In any case that can't happen until we win over sufficient public opinion. P.O. will sway the votes, the actions of the legislature and likely the judiciary to a degree.

If you've noticed, this is exactly is where she is waging the war. She can't do it through legal means. It is all by public means, and quite frankly she is slaughtering us in that respect. It is simply a numbers game and she knows that.

We need a constant barrage of PR in the news, on the radio (paid ads and talk show spots), billboards, tweets, FB's, blogs, etc. We should not attempt to defend against her opinions, but promote our own messages and attacks to put her on the defensive. We need to quickly pull the non-gun owners and shadow gun owners who are at least skeptical of government overreach to our side.

Healey hurting families, hurting small business, increasing burden of taxpayers for her private war, unilateral rogue actions, the governor and legislature powerless to stop her, if she can do it to us,,, etc.
 
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calsdad said:
People who expected the dealers to carry the entire weight on this are delusional. That being said - if dealers get caught up in this shit - we should do something to help them out. Maybe an effort thru GOAL or Comm2A.
Click to expand...


I feel compelled to chime in on this, as I have been busting my @ss and jeopardizing my livelihood for this cause since it all started. I closed my business and travelled 2.5 hours to Boston. I was the first man on the steps of the State house, at 11:15 AM on 7/21. I have donated money, joined GOAL, the NRA, NSSF, etc. I have given away shirts, and even guns. I have dropped advertising with media outlets that I have already paid for. I also never raised my prices by a single cent when sales were crazy. Over the course of the past few weeks, we have seen sales plummet to all-time lows. Then I come here to see people bashing dealers. Making comments about dealers doing nothing. Stating that we are merely a bunch of ***** who do what we are told. Enough already. Stand together or fall together. Stop the keyboard warrior business. Make those calls to legislators. Write a letter. Vote. Above all, support your local shops! Please people. Direct it at the villain here, not the victims. Sorry for the rant, but damn.....I'm stressed over this. I'm losing my life savings here.
 
Overwatch Outpost said:
I feel compelled to chime in on this, as I have been busting my @ss and jeopardizing my livelihood for this cause since it all started. I closed my business and travelled 2.5 hours to Boston. I was the first man on the steps of the State house, at 11:15 AM on 7/21. I have donated money, joined GOAL, the NRA, NSSF, etc. I have given away shirts, and even guns. I have dropped advertising with media outlets that I have already paid for. I also never raised my prices by a single cent when sales were crazy. Over the course of the past few weeks, we have seen sales plummet to all-time lows. Then I come here to see people bashing dealers. Making comments about dealers doing nothing. Stating that we are merely a bunch of ***** who do what we are told. Enough already. Stand together or fall together. Stop the keyboard warrior business. Make those calls to legislators. Write a letter. Vote. Above all, support your local shops! Please people. Direct it at the villain here, not the victims. Sorry for the rant, but damn.....I'm stressed over this. I'm losing my life savings here.
Click to expand...

+1
 
Overwatch Outpost said:
I feel compelled to chime in on this, as I have been busting my @ss and jeopardizing my livelihood for this cause since it all started. I closed my business and travelled 2.5 hours to Boston. I was the first man on the steps of the State house, at 11:15 AM on 7/21. I have donated money, joined GOAL, the NRA, NSSF, etc. I have given away shirts, and even guns. I have dropped advertising with media outlets that I have already paid for. I also never raised my prices by a single cent when sales were crazy. Over the course of the past few weeks, we have seen sales plummet to all-time lows. Then I come here to see people bashing dealers. Making comments about dealers doing nothing. Stating that we are merely a bunch of ***** who do what we are told. Enough already. Stand together or fall together. Stop the keyboard warrior business. Make those calls to legislators. Write a letter. Vote. Above all, support your local shops! Please people. Direct it at the villain here, not the victims. Sorry for the rant, but damn.....I'm stressed over this. I'm losing my life savings here.
Click to expand...

+2
 
Going to have to try to vet out to overwatch now. I visit my Lgs weekly, but I'm licking my wounds still from being over gun budget. I've even stopped reloading to help support ammo sales.
 
I stop whenever I drive by - I stopped at Pullman the other day - didn't have the ammo flavor I needed so I bought 1 lb of BP - next time I drive by it will be something else - we have to keep the shops open so when this BS is undone/fixed we have someplace to buy from.
 
Overwatch Outpost said:
I feel compelled to chime in on this, as I have been busting my @ss and jeopardizing my livelihood for this cause since it all started. I closed my business and travelled 2.5 hours to Boston. I was the first man on the steps of the State house, at 11:15 AM on 7/21. I have donated money, joined GOAL, the NRA, NSSF, etc. I have given away shirts, and even guns. I have dropped advertising with media outlets that I have already paid for. I also never raised my prices by a single cent when sales were crazy. Over the course of the past few weeks, we have seen sales plummet to all-time lows. Then I come here to see people bashing dealers. Making comments about dealers doing nothing. Stating that we are merely a bunch of ***** who do what we are told. Enough already. Stand together or fall together. Stop the keyboard warrior business. Make those calls to legislators. Write a letter. Vote. Above all, support your local shops! Please people. Direct it at the villain here, not the victims. Sorry for the rant, but damn.....I'm stressed over this. I'm losing my life savings here.
Click to expand...


+3.

This has to be part of her plan. Bankrupt supply to infringe demand.

Gotta support our LGS's while weathering the storm.
 

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