moonpup
NES Member
I was curious if anyone has ever experienced or heard of a decocker failing on a hammer fired gun and igniting a live round. I know anything can break, but was curious about peoples experiences.
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Has a decocker ever failed for you and fired a live round?
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greencobra
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lots of things give me the creeps but decockers aren't one of them.
no and never heard of anyone having an issue.
If we're talking about Sigs, the de-cocker can't fail, in the sense that the gun will discharge(if that is what you're talking about). The firing pin can't hit the primer unless the trigger is rearward.
Are you talking about a specific pistol?
If we're talking about Sigs, the de-cocker can't fail, in the sense that the gun will discharge(if that is what you're talking about). The firing pin can't hit the primer unless the trigger is rearward.
Are you talking about a specific pistol?
If you examine the way that most of them work, mechanically, they shouldn't. Sig's for example has an intercept notch that prevents the hammer from even hitting the
firing pin, as well as the gun having a firing pin block which is only deactivated when the trigger is pulled. Same thing with HK for the most part. My CZ Phantom BD decocks the hammer down onto the half cock notch....
-Mike
If you watch how an m9 baretta works it shouldn't worry you at all. The firing pin assembly rotates down with the decocking lever. No possible way for the firing pin to contact the hammer as the lever is rotated....because the firing pin is not there because it's rotated 90 degrees.
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cockpitbob
NES Member
Same for my S&W 6906 (basically clones the M9's features). The firing pin is long gone by the time the hammer comes down.
I just wish that lever was named something different.
Stryker
NES Member
Or preventing it in the first place!
not new guy
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I prefer half decock (snicker). My Tanfoglio drops it all the way down, and while I'm sure it's perfectly safe, it took a little getting used to.
I read about a situation many years ago where a police officer was holding a perp at gunpoint. The officer claimed that he used the decocking lever to decock his Ruger P series pistol (p89, IIRC) and his pistol discharged, shooting the perp in the head.
Whether this actually happened as the officer claims is questionable to me. Even if it did, he shouldn’t have been decocking with the gun pointed at the perp.
As a competitor at action shooting events, I’ve seen plenty of shooters use a decocking lever. I’ve never seen one fail. For some pistols like SIGs, manually decocking effectively bypasses safeties and is a bad thing.
I have seen someone have an ND while manually decocking a DA/SA semi-auto that had no decocking lever.
IMNSHO, if your pistol has a decocking lever, use it. If it doesn’t , take extra care. Whether your pistol does or does not have a decocking lever, keep your gun pointed in a safe direction while decocking.
ETA: it was the Ruger P85. Here is the Ruger recall info: Ruger - P85™ Product Safety Warning and Recall Notice
Whether this actually happened as the officer claims is questionable to me. Even if it did, he shouldn’t have been decocking with the gun pointed at the perp.
As a competitor at action shooting events, I’ve seen plenty of shooters use a decocking lever. I’ve never seen one fail. For some pistols like SIGs, manually decocking effectively bypasses safeties and is a bad thing.
I have seen someone have an ND while manually decocking a DA/SA semi-auto that had no decocking lever.
IMNSHO, if your pistol has a decocking lever, use it. If it doesn’t , take extra care. Whether your pistol does or does not have a decocking lever, keep your gun pointed in a safe direction while decocking.
ETA: it was the Ruger P85. Here is the Ruger recall info: Ruger - P85™ Product Safety Warning and Recall Notice
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To put it another way, I think it is far more likely that I would have an ND while manually decocking a DS/SA than that I would have an AD because a decocker failed. Yes, parts can break, but I think my MTBF is far less than a decocking lever’s MTBF.
Yes, I do compete with a CZ that has no decocking lever. I’m pretty anal when decocking it.
Yes, I do compete with a CZ that has no decocking lever. I’m pretty anal when decocking it.
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Asaltweapon
NES Member
I still keep my Sigs pointed in a safe direction when using the decocker.
DPR
NES Member
de-perper
E.Stoner
NES Member
Basically this ^^^
The old "gun just went off" is usually an excuse for "I pulled the trigger", just like "I was cleaning the gun" is usually "I was messing around with a loaded gun"
For this to be a problem on a modern automatic would have to be completely mechanically f-ed up with a sheared off hammer safety and stuck or missing striker block. With some guns like the Beretta it would be physically impossible unless the hammer was able to phase shift into another dimension to travel through the decocker lever (this is a feature that might be included in the next new SIG offering
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
).That being said, with any physical manipulation there is a chance of ND due to cognitive malfunction so the 4 safety rules are still in effect along with gravity and laws of motion and Murphy.
The only reason I can think of to manually decock and not use the decocker, would be in the case of a competition where you might have to start with the hammer fully down (not 1/4 cocked like a CZ). That is where having a hammer that is skeltonized is very useful to get a strong purchase on either side of the hammer whilst pulling the trigger. Even then, one should be pointing in a safe direction with the expectation that a round could go off.
Basically this ^^^
The old "gun just went off" is usually an excuse for "I pulled the trigger", just like "I was cleaning the gun" is usually "I was messing around with a loaded gun"
For this to be a problem on a modern automatic would have to be completely mechanically f-ed up with a sheared off hammer safety and stuck or missing striker block. With some guns like the Beretta it would be physically impossible unless the hammer was able to phase shift into another dimension to travel through the decocker lever (this is a feature that might be included in the next new SIG offering
That being said, with any physical manipulation there is a chance of ND due to cognitive malfunction so the 4 safety rules are still in effect along with gravity and laws of motion and Murphy.
The only reason I can think of to manually decock and not use the decocker, would be in the case of a competition where you might have to start with the hammer fully down (not 1/4 cocked like a CZ). That is where having a hammer that is skeltonized is very useful to get a strong purchase on either side of the hammer whilst pulling the trigger. Even then, one should be pointing in a safe direction with the expectation that a round could go off.
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but in production (USPSA) wherever the decocker leaves it is fine (if so equipped) but if you have a standard CZ, hammers gotta go all the way down.
-Mike
E.Stoner
NES Member
I thought that in production SA/DA need to be in the fully decocked position, hammer down all the way. I think half-cock will bump you into open. I could be wrong and often am.
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That has been clarified. If your gun has a decocker, then for USPSA production you are to use the decocker and you start from wherever the decocker leaves you. If your gun doesn’t have a decocker, then you start with hammer down all the way.
Here is the text of the 2014 clarification:
Manufacturers have installed decockers to take the hammer safely to a position that is deemed safe, therefore; the term fully decocked is the position that the hammer rest at once the decocker has been used. Altering a factory installed decocker to bring the hammer to rest at less than a half cocked position is not allowed.
Varmint
NES Member
Never when using the lever. Sometimes I forget and use my index finger.
fshalor
NES Member
I remember playing with one of those which would fire on decock... Only if the trigger was being pressed with light pressure at the time.
The owner sent it in for recall anyway (I let him know about the recall after I looked it up.)
In his case, it would never do it while the finger was out of the trigger guard. But if you were begining a "squeeze" and then mashed the decocker like you were say, fiddling with decocking a revolver like the dude in Police Academy... It would go bang.
Fired it once after recall and it definitely felt different with the new internals.
I was pretty sure that holding pressure on the trigger while decocking is what causes that "rare firing pin breakage" refered to in the recall .
It also has a firing pin block. If the trigger isn't all the way back you can hit the firing in with a punch and hammer and the gun still won't go off.
All my CZs have decockers.
