Handgun vs Long gun for Home Defense - a discussion starter

[lupis42]

lupis, how did you get Doobie's sword!

Actually, if the pictures I've seen are correct, Doobie's sword is much smaller.

That big one I have weighs over 13lbs. It's sort of the Pfeifer Zeliska of claymores.

Mostly, I only use that one for strength and endurance training, but should I have daughters, their boyfriends will know fear.

 

[flintoid]

Short barreled rifle

the best of both worlds

FS2000 or any bulpup rifle

You've got a tactical room clearing SBR without the SBR tax!

 

[Mustad]

4) The most important factor to remember is to let the police know exactly what happened. “Officer, he/she tried to kill us. We had no choice.” Do not embellish. Do not use slang words. Learn to use terminology that the police use or know. This will help you out in more ways than you can imagine. [/I]

I would probably want to consult a lawyer before I disclosed to anyone too much in depth of what happened. In case of a civil suit or being charged with something.

 

[MassMark]

FS2000 or any bulpup rifle

You've got a tactical room clearing SBR without the SBR tax!

In a free-state, I was thinking something more like this:

http://store.troyind.com/M7A1_s/52.htm

With something on deck like this:

http://www.advanced-armament.com/default.aspx?pageId=23

I would probably want to consult a lawyer before I disclosed to anyone too much in depth of what happened. In case of a civil suit or being charged with something.

This follows much of what I have been taught. Detail without the presence of a lawyer can get you skarewed...Perhaps one of our legal-eagles can chime in, but in my mind, the conversation should go something like this:

- "911, what's your emergency?"

- "Yes, hello? There was an intruder in my home, I was attacked, the intruder is down, send an ambulance".

Then to responding officer:

"This man broke into my home and attacked us, I defended myself. I'd be more than happy to fully cooperate with you about this, but in the presence of my attorney."

In my mind and especially in this state, LEO's are going to be keyed into anything you say that can and will be used against you in a circus court of law....

 

[ochmude]

I would probably want to consult a lawyer before I disclosed to anyone too much in depth of what happened. In case of a civil suit or being charged with something.

Anything you say can and will be used against you. No one except your own attorney is under any obligation to use anything you say for you.

 

[Pete85]

What is API ?

Armor Piercing Incindiary

 

[ShadeWPI]

Willie,

While the back-up is a nice set-up, it is impractical for my house.

1) I have a 2-year old son. I will not place any firearm where it can be reached by a child. The two shotguns are stored in a manner that does not allow him access to them. Hence a pistol close at hand till the shotguns can be obtained.

2) My bed's construction places the bottom of the mattress approximately 8" below the edge of the side-rail of the bed frame. That construction does not function with the back-up, which requires a bed whose mattress is exposed on the sides.

Every situation is different. When I lived alone without a child in the house, things were stored differently and I had different weapons of choice. Now I have two loved ones (fiancee and son) and I've adapted my response to the change in situation. As he grows up, things will change again.

BTW: I am already looking forward to being able to take him to the range and teach him to shoot when he's older. Unfortunately, that will be longer than I'd like, but he needs to be old enough to be responsible with a weapon before he can be trusted with one.

 

[Bill Nance]

Anything you say can and will be used against you. No one except your own attorney is under any obligation to use anything you say for you.

Ya, I totally agree.

My wife and I have already discussed this. I will tell the police:
"He broke through the locked door while we were sleeping/watching TV. We were in fear for our lives. Now I want to talk to my attorney before making any other statement."

If they decide to throw me in the clink for that then they can go ahead. I'll be out in a few hours and in the meanwhile haven't inadvertently said something stupid the DA will use in a case against me.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=97484157416073610#

 

[colt_fan]

BTW: I am already looking forward to being able to take him to the range and teach him to shoot when he's older. Unfortunately, that will be longer than I'd like, but he needs to be old enough to be responsible with a SPOON before he can be trusted with one.

Fixed it for you, not to nitpick but you use firearm initially and then change it over to weapon. Just a pet peeve of mine...

 

[Mike S]

Internet hook up $20.00 a month
Large Gun Collection $10,000.00 dollars
Mall Ninja Outfit $300.00 dollars

Making a stupid rookie mistake by calling a gun a "weapon" on the internet and getting called out on it...

Priceless...

 

[richc]

Internet hook up $20.00 a month
Large Gun Collection $10,000.00 dollars
Mall Ninja Outfit $300.00 dollars

Making a stupid rookie mistake by calling a gun a "weapon" on the internet and getting called out on it...

Priceless...

NICE!!!!!!!!!!! +1

 

[Bob P]

Internet hook up $20.00 a month
Large Gun Collection $10,000.00 dollars
Mall Ninja Outfit $300.00 dollars

Making a stupid rookie mistake by calling a gun a "weapon" on the internet and getting called out on it...

Priceless...

Ying!

 

[Gonzo]

Armor Piercing Incindiary

These make the baby Jesus smile.

 

[drumenigma]

Fixed it for you, not to nitpick but you use firearm initially and then change it over to weapon. Just a pet peeve of mine...

True that. Depending on how it's being used it can be a tool(hunting), piece of recreational equipment(target shooting) or a weapon(defending ones self).

For my house I have a handgun at the "immediate" ready at least as far as MA law allows. I do have stuff in the safe ready to access but that would take a little longer to get in to. I do have some concern about penetration so I may look in to frangible rounds at some point.

 

[lupis42]

These make the baby Jesus smile.

They make a great many people smile

 

[ShadeWPI]

Colt Fan,

I understand your point, but we have slightly different mindsets. I respectfully disagree with your edit though.

I trust my son with a spoon. He is allowed to carry a spoon often, even in public. He is very responsible with it. He is allowed to carry his wooden hammer. He is responsible with that as well.

I wasn't stating that a firearm is inherently a weapon, just that I would need to believe him to be responsible enough to handle a weapon, a tool used in such a mannor as to be capable of inflicting significant harm, before I will trust him sufficiently to handle a firearm (a tool which can be used as a weapon)

I will need a similar level of trust in his responsibility before I would let him handle a sharp knife, one of my swords, a saw, an axe or a baseball bat. They are all tools that can be used as weapons.

 

[Mike S]

True that. Depending on how it's being used it can be a tool(hunting), piece of recreational equipment(target shooting) or a weapon(defending ones self).

For my house I have a handgun at the "immediate" ready at least as far as MA law allows. I do have stuff in the safe ready to access but that would take a little longer to get in to. I do have some concern about penetration so I may look in to frangible rounds at some point.

"This is my RIFLE, this is my GUN! One is for fighting and one is for fun!"

 

[colt_fan]

Colt Fan,

I understand your point, but we have slightly different mindsets. I respectfully disagree with your edit though.

I trust my son with a spoon. He is allowed to carry a spoon often, even in public. He is very responsible with it. He is allowed to carry his wooden hammer. He is responsible with that as well.

I wasn't stating that a firearm is inherently a weapon, just that I would need to believe him to be responsible enough to handle a weapon, a tool used in such a mannor as to be capable of inflicting significant harm, before I will trust him sufficiently to handle a firearm (a tool which can be used as a weapon)

I will need a similar level of trust in his responsibility before I would let him handle a sharp knife, one of my swords, a saw, an axe or a baseball bat. They are all tools that can be used as weapons.

A spoon can be used as a weapon. They do it in prison all the time and there is a quote from the movie Robin Hood.

[the Sheriff has said he'll cut out Robin Hood's heart with a spoon]
Guy of Gisborne: Why a spoon, cousin? Why not an axe?
Sheriff of Nottingham: Because it's DULL, you twit. It'll hurt more.

In the context you wrote weapon you were directly referring to a firearm.

 

[ochmude]

What's the big deal with referring to firearms as "weapons" anyway? When I was first introduced to shooting, "weapon" was the required term to be used.

From MCRP 3-1A "Rifle Marksmanship":

Chapter 3 Weapons Handling
Weapons handling procedures are a consistent and standardized way for a Marine to handle, operate, and employ the rifle safely and effectively. Proper weapons handling procedures ensure the safety of Marines by reducing negligent discharges and reinforcing positive identification of targets before engagement. Weapons handling procedures apply at all levels of training and during combat operations.
3001. Safety Rules
Safe handling of the rifle is critical. If weapons handling procedures are not used, a Marine risks his safety and the safety of his fellow Marines. During combat, a Marine must react quickly,safely, and be mentally prepared to engage targets. To ensure that only the intended target is engaged, a Marine must apply the following safety rules at all times:
a. Rule 1—Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.
When a Marine takes charge of an unattended or attended rifle in any situation, he must treat the weapon as if it were loaded, determine its condition (see paragraph 3003), and continue applying the other safety rules.
b. Rule 2—Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.
Maintain muzzle awareness at all times.
c. Rule 3—Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
A target must be identified before taking the weapon off safe and moving the finger to the trigger.
d. Rule 4—Keep the weapon on safe until you intend to fire.
A target must be identified before taking the weapon off safe. This rule is intended to eliminate the chance of the weapon discharging by accident (e.g., brush snagging the trigger) rather than by negligence.

And don't even get me started on "gun". That word equates to pain, sweat, misery, and typically lots of sand.

 

[colt_fan]

What's the big deal with referring to firearms as "weapons" anyway? When I was first introduced to shooting, "weapon" was the required term to be used.

From MCRP 3-1A "Rifle Marksmanship":


And don't even get me started on "gun". That word equates to pain, sweat, misery, and typically lots of sand.

Context in which you were taught most likely, yours I'm going to assume was when you were becoming a Marine.

 

[News Shooter]

What's the big deal with referring to firearms as "weapons" anyway? When I was first introduced to shooting, "weapon" was the required term to be used.

From MCRP 3-1A "Rifle Marksmanship":


And don't even get me started on "gun". That word equates to pain, sweat, misery, and typically lots of sand.

It scares the straights.
We were taught in the NRA instructor's course never to use the term weapons in class. There were two Army guys in my class and they had a hell of time remembering that because of the way they were taught. The instructor joked about having a dollar jar for every time someone said it wrong

 

[ochmude]

Context in which you were taught most likely, yours I'm going to assume was when you were becoming a Marine.

It was, yes. But in that regard, even though "gun" was a profane term when I was in the Marines, I know that it was just a cultural thing and it's not really a bad word. I can actually bring my self to use it from time to time now without looking over my shoulder to see if someone is about to throw me a knife hand. But among folks here on NES, "weapon" seems to be viewed with as much scorn as "gun" was in the Marines. I even saw the "W" badge at GOAL that apparently people would have to wear if they said "weapon" during a course. Why is "weapon" so bad?

 

[ochmude]

It scares the straights.
We were taught in the NRA instructor's course never to use the term weapons in class. There were two Army guys in my class and they had a hell of time remembering that because of the way they were taught. The instructor joked about having a dollar jar for every time someone said it wrong

Oh, so it's a PC thing?

 

[colt_fan]

It was, yes. But in that regard, even though "gun" was a profane term when I was in the Marines, I know that it was just a cultural thing and it's not really a bad word. I can actually bring my self to use it from time to time now without looking over my shoulder to see if someone is about to throw me a knife hand. But among folks here on NES, "weapon" seems to be viewed with as much scorn as "gun" was in the Marines. I even saw the "W" badge at GOAL that apparently people would have to wear if they said "weapon" during a course. Why is "weapon" so bad?

It's just a word association that the general public considers/interprets as evil, like assault rifle. What about using the word firearm instead of gun?

 

[ochmude]

It's just a word association that the general public considers/interprets as evil, like assault rifle. What about using the word firearm instead of gun?

Firearm is just fine. I think it's just that "gun" was/is viewed as a nasty civilian term used by those individuals who are "back on the block" as the DI's always said. Weapon, rifle, and firearm were fine, though.

Anyway, I suppose that makes sense about scaring the anti's. I never really considered that possibility. Thanks for the clarification. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

 

[Eye5600]

My father would never accept "gun" as a term for a firearm with a rifled barrel.

 

[terraformer]

It was, yes. But in that regard, even though "gun" was a profane term when I was in the Marines, I know that it was just a cultural thing and it's not really a bad word. I can actually bring my self to use it from time to time now without looking over my shoulder to see if someone is about to throw me a knife hand. But among folks here on NES, "weapon" seems to be viewed with as much scorn as "gun" was in the Marines. I even saw the "W" badge at GOAL that apparently people would have to wear if they said "weapon" during a course. Why is "weapon" so bad?

Lets face it, does any 4 letter word have any intrinsic danger or threat? No, as does gun, weapon, etc. All prohibitions of language are inherently cultural.

Check out, the very NSFW, bit by George Carlin on language and the seven deadly words among others. His brilliance was his ability to deconstruct language and shove it back into the listeners face challenging their assumptions.

 

[Gonzo]

Firearm is just fine. I think it's just that "gun" was/is viewed as a nasty civilian term used by those individuals who are "back on the block" as the DI's always said. Weapon, rifle, and firearm were fine, though.

Anyway, I suppose that makes sense about scaring the anti's. I never really considered that possibility. Thanks for the clarification. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

Can I use "Gat"? Or do I need to turn the brim of my hat to 2 o'clock first?

 

[ochmude]

Lets face it, does any 4 letter word have any intrinsic danger or threat? No, as does gun, weapon, etc. All prohibitions of language are inherently cultural.

Check out, the very NSFW, bit by George Carlin on language and the seven deadly words among others. His brilliance was his ability to deconstruct language and shove it back into the listeners face challenging their assumptions.

LOL, yeah, I actually did a report based on that act in an English class in high school. I was just thinking possibly there was a technical reason for it that I was unaware of, such as with clip/magazine.

 

[GOAL C.M.]

-