Handgun vs Long gun for Home Defense - a discussion starter

[ShadeWPI]

All very good points MassMark.

My solution:

Rifle: While I have a number of rifles, including several kept close at hand, I wouldn't choose them for home defense in 99.9% of situations. I live in a suburban neighborhood and have 150-200 feet between me and my neighbors. Any of my rifles will likely over penetrate and pose a risk to innocents.

Shotgun: I keep two shotguns, each loaded with 3" 12ga 15 pellet 00buck shot near at hand. They have empty chambers and dropped hammers. They are made ready by a single pump. These are my weapons of choice for HD, unfortunately it is impractical to store them close at hand while in bed.

Hangun: I keep a glock 20 with a magazine of 180gn hydro-shock hollow points ready at hand and a tactical flashlight right next to it.

In the event of an unidentified noise, I get out of bed and grab the glock, grab the first shotgun and hand it to my fiancee. I then get the second shotgun and start a sweep of the house with a shotgun. While my fiancee's shotgun is a ported 26" turkey gun that makes it difficult to sweep the house, mine is a 18 1/2" barreled Mossberg with an adjustable length of pull stock and it is fairly easy to manuver around the house.

The ideal home defense weapon is going to vary with situation, training and personal preference.

 

[garandman]

i have a loud speaker that trips when the door or windows open. it's plays the bluuurping sound of a tube of lube being squeezed, followed by pigs squealing in terror.

Then add "You got a real pretty mouth, ain't ya?"

 

[fencer]

I think that everyone missed one of the most important aspects of home defense. A dog. Now I know that not everyone can have a dog where they live, but if you can, aside from becoming a part of the family, they are the best deterent. My dog is my early warning system.
Most LEO and even criminals will tell you that if a dog is present a bad guy will likely move on, as long as it is not an ankle biter. The way I look at it, if the SOB is crazy enough to enter my house with my 85lb lab barking like crazy, he's gonna get shot.
I have to agree with the other posters here and would say my weapon of choice would be my 12ga. My nearest neighbor is quite some distance away so I am not very concerned with over penetration, but with the adreniline pumping, dog barking etc. I just feel more confident with the shot gun.

 

[Ma$$hole]

12 Gauge Mossberg 500 . Pistol grip, 18 1/2" barrel, 00 Buck, pressure switched flashlight, and C1. Manueverable and I'll I'll call the police once he's laying in his own pool of piss, s**t, and blood. Good night and try the veal.

 

[JackDaniels]

12 Gauge Mossberg 500 . Pistol grip, 18 1/2" barrel, 00 Buck, pressure switched flashlight, and C1. Manueverable and I'll I'll call the police once he's laying in his own pool of piss, s**t, and blood. Good night and try the veal.

Maybe you are the exception, but I think that most of us wouldn't be able to hit shit with the adrenaline going in the middle of the night with a pistol grip shotgun.

 

[fencer]

does she shoot? have you practiced sweeping the house in tandem with her? sounds like a surefire way to get your ass shot off if you haven't.

That is my biggest fear. My wife has clear instructions to gather the kids, lock the door and call 911. DO NOT follow me with a handgun and try to help. I have taken CQC classes. She hasn't. I can just picture my self slowly loosing consciousness and the last thing I hear is her yelling " Honey! I got Him!"

 

[Eye5600]

i have a loud speaker that trips when the door or windows open. it's plays the bluuurping sound of a tube of lube being squeezed, followed by pigs squealing in terror.

I've pondered a recorded announcement.

"Intruder detected. and under video surveillance.
911 notified,
Homeowner is alert and armed."

 

[JackDaniels]

I've pondered a recorded announcement.

"Intruder detected. and under video surveillance.
911 notified,
Homeowner is alert and armed."

Don't let them know your armed. Let them come in fat, dumb, and happy, and be taken by suprise that you're fighting back. If I'm a criminal coming into a home where I know the homeowner is armed, I'm killing him and everyone inside before I do anything else.

I'd rather have mr. bad guy come in with his guard down.

 

[Ma$$hole]

Maybe you are the exception, but I think that most of us wouldn't be able to hit shit with the adrenaline going in the middle of the night with a pistol grip shotgun.

Then what makes you think that most of us would be able to hit sh** with a pistol grip... pistol that only shoots one projectile each time you pull the trigger and has a shorter barrel? I think hitting stuff with a short barreled shotgun should be the least of your worries. You should be worrying about what NOT to hit at the rate that spreads. I may load up with #4 behind my 00 soon though.

 

[ochmude]

This article is woefully inadequate in describing proper home defense. A firearm is only a small piece of the total home defense plan, which should have multiple layers. Below is the plan that I use.

 

[JackDaniels]

Then what makes you think that most of us would be able to hit sh** with a pistol grip... pistol that only shoots one projectile each time you pull the trigger and has a shorter barrel? I think hitting stuff with a short barreled shotgun should be the least of your worries. You should be worrying about what NOT to hit at the rate that spreads. I may load up with #4 behind my 00 soon though.

Well, if you really want to know, its because I watch people shoot pistol multiple times a week with skill and ease and consistency. Most people that I've seen shoot a pistol grip shotgun do not come close to that level of even beginner pistol shooters. That includes myself. I believe it has to do with the way the pistol is held out in front of the body and at eye level. where the pistol grip shotgun is generally held below eye level. Shooting a pistol from the hip is just as hard. Buckshot at close range doesn't spread out enough to compensate from the loss in accuracy. Last Time I shot buckshot at 7 yards, the spread wasn't very much larger than the diameter of the barrel.

 

[Ma$$hole]

If anyone tries to shoot their Pistol Grip shotgun like a shoulder fired shotgun they deserve to get their teeth knocked out. Youtube will teach many people who bother looking how to shoot and how NOT to shoot a pistol grip shotgun.

 

[JackDaniels]

If anyone tries to shoot their Pistol Grip shotgun like a shoulder fired shotgun they deserve to get their teeth knocked out. Youtube will teach many people who bother looking how to shoot and how NOT to shoot a pistol grip shotgun.

This is true. What technique do you use that allows for reliable accuracy? I sure can't figure it out. I've tried shooting from the hip with shotguns that have stocks where I kind of wedge it between my arm and body, hoping for some kind of sweet spot that will enable me to get some precision out of it, but no luck.

 

[ShadeWPI]

does she shoot? have you practiced sweeping the house in tandem with her? sounds like a surefire way to get your ass shot off if you haven't.

Does she shoot?

Yes, she shoots. She's actually quite good, though she's better with her bow than a handgun or shotgun.

Have you practiced sweeping the house in tandem with her?
No, because I don't sweep the house in tandem with her. In our current configuration, she remains in our bedroom with our dog and her shotgun and calls 911. That relieves me from having to worry about her or the dog while I sweep.
My focus is to get to our son's room. Home defense is about protecting people, not things. When we finish the work on my son's new room, once I can secure the hall between our room and his, all of us move to his room.

 

[Baystatesuks]

I think that everyone missed one of the most important aspects of home defense. A dog. Now I know that not everyone can have a dog where they live, but if you can, aside from becoming a part of the family, they are the best deterent. My dog is my early warning system.
Most LEO and even criminals will tell you that if a dog is present a bad guy will likely move on, as long as it is not an ankle biter. The way I look at it, if the SOB is crazy enough to enter my house with my 85lb lab barking like crazy, he's gonna get shot.
I have to agree with the other posters here and would say my weapon of choice would be my 12ga. My nearest neighbor is quite some distance away so I am not very concerned with over penetration, but with the adreniline pumping, dog barking etc. I just feel more confident with the shot gun.

+1. It's amazing that most criminals have a greater fear of a dog (a real dog and not a lap dog) than a gun, when it is unlikely they would be killed by the dog and very likely they would be killed by the gun (assuming one of the NESR's is behind the trigger).

 

[ShadeWPI]

Well, if you really want to know, its because I watch people shoot pistol multiple times a week with skill and ease and consistency. Most people that I've seen shoot a pistol grip shotgun do not come close to that level of even beginner pistol shooters. That includes myself. I believe it has to do with the way the pistol is held out in front of the body and at eye level. where the pistol grip shotgun is generally held below eye level. Shooting a pistol from the hip is just as hard. Buckshot at close range doesn't spread out enough to compensate from the loss in accuracy. Last Time I shot buckshot at 7 yards, the spread wasn't very much larger than the diameter of the barrel.

JD,

Yes, the spread on a shot-gun at HD ranges is poor, you might get a 1-1.5" wide spread at best and is no substitute for accuracy. I know 2 people who can accurately hit targets with stockless pistol grip shotguns (one even does reasonably well shooting trap with a pistol grip) I am not one of them, at least not the accuracy level I would trust for home defense. I use a 6-position adjustable stock, it's stored with the stock at its shortest length of pull to provide a more compact package.

The one thing I want to get for it is a self-illuminating ghost-ring sight. I'm pretty good with a bead, but I find I'm a little faster with a ghost ring.

As for accuracy with a pistol? A pistol is smaller, shorter and has a fraction of the recoil impulse of a 12ga shotgun. Pistols are easily held at arms length and eye level for aiming while a stockless shotgun is generally held with the off-hand on the foregrip, bringing the weapon closer to the body for an aimed shot. This stance also bends the arms far enough to remove much of their strength in absorbing the recoil.
If you're going to go to a stockless pistol-grip, I would strongly recommend considering a single point sling and practice pre-loading the sling by pushing forward on the pistol grip for a form of "soft stock" You'll have the smaller size of a stockless pistol-grip with the benefit of eye-level aimed shots.

 

[ShadeWPI]

Fencer:

Agreed, a dog is a wonderful home defense asset. My 75lb Golden / German Shepherd is also an early warning system. If someone walks on our porch at night, his head pops up and he starts to paw at the bedroom door (he sleeps in his bed in our bedroom at night) He's not going to alter someone trying to break in, but he sure gets me up.

He doesn't sweep me with because he really isn't trained for that. Rather he stays and watches over his mommy for me.

 

[garandman]

I think that everyone missed one of the most important aspects of home defense. A dog. Now I know that not everyone can have a dog where they live, but if you can, aside from becoming a part of the family, they are the best deterrent. My dog is my early warning system.
Most LEO and even criminals will tell you that if a dog is present a bad guy will likely move on, as long as it is not an ankle biter. //

That's a good point. We have the Mantra "Lights locks dog gun."

Anyone ever watch the TV series "It takes a Thief?" Those are all housebreaks while no one is at home, but it demos some good points and what to do and not do and some good products. We're considering a videophone front door bell and a few other products they showed. The videophone door bell takes a digital image of whomever rings it.

 

[Ma$$hole]

What technique do you use that allows for reliable accuracy?

I tend to bring the shotgun up to my chest. I'm not a huge fan of shooting from the hip. When shooting my pump I tend to have minimal vertical kick. The most kick translates back into my palm so there is slight rocking at the elbow. Outside of that it stays relatively stable. One thing I know not to do is try to shoot up at an angle with it. The only case this would come into play is if you were shooting up a flight of stairs but there is no chance of that happening at my place.

 

[gerrycaruso]

I have a 590A1 with a 14" barrel and a pistol grip.I hold it about midway between waist and shoulder and point shoot or hold it 2 handed like a handgun.I wouldn't use it or any of my NFA stuff for defense. I rely on a .45 auto,a flashlight,a 100lb German Shepard and a 250lb English Mastiff.If that's not enough,then I guess I have a problem.

 

[fubar]

I have a pistol grip Mossberg 500 , a full stock Rem 870 , a Bushmaster , a WASR-10 , an AutoOrdnance Thompson Gun , A S&W Model 29 ..... A Great Dane , an Irish Wolfhound , and a redhaired wife.

Too big , too little too scary , too much penetration , etc etc yes no maybe.

If bad people kick in my locked door at night I will greet them with the gun I am most comfortable with : a 1911 loaded with wimpy old 230 grain lead ball.

If after that the street is full of zombies , I will go get my AR15.

 

[Bill Nance]

I think that everyone missed one of the most important aspects of home defense. A dog. Now I know that not everyone can have a dog where they live, but if you can, aside from becoming a part of the family, they are the best deterent. My dog is my early warning system.
Most LEO and even criminals will tell you that if a dog is present a bad guy will likely move on, as long as it is not an ankle biter. The way I look at it, if the SOB is crazy enough to enter my house with my 85lb lab barking like crazy, he's gonna get shot.
I have to agree with the other posters here and would say my weapon of choice would be my 12ga. My nearest neighbor is quite some distance away so I am not very concerned with over penetration, but with the adreniline pumping, dog barking etc. I just feel more confident with the shot gun.

Tup, a barking dog is about the best alarm system you could have. Hell, mine barks when a butterfly farts over the roof. Someone trying to come in at night? He's gonna go totally crazy. He won't call the cops for me, but then I don't plan on calling the cops until after I've secured the house. My home is the one place I don't have a legal duty to retreat and I have no intention of doing so.

 

[FreeWillie]

All very good points MassMark.



Shotgun: I keep two shotguns, each loaded with 3" 12ga 15 pellet 00buck shot near at hand. They have empty chambers and dropped hammers. They are made ready by a single pump. These are my weapons of choice for HD, unfortunately it is impractical to store them close at hand while in bed.

http://www.the-backup.com/

 

[terraformer]

I've pondered a recorded announcement.

"Intruder detected. and under video surveillance.
911 notified,
Homeowner is alert and armed."

Dude, that sounds like a really bad brinks/adt alarm commercial.

This article is woefully inadequate in describing proper home defense. A firearm is only a small piece of the total home defense plan, which should have multiple layers. Below is the plan that I use.

Now that's a plan. It's in color and has pictures.

Ah, a voice of reason...

 

[Jose]

I've pondered a recorded announcement.

"Intruder detected. and under video surveillance.
911 notified,
Homeowner is alert and armed."

WHY?

 

[fencer]

I have a 590A1 with a 14" barrel and a pistol grip.I hold it about midway between waist and shoulder and point shoot or hold it 2 handed like a handgun.I wouldn't use it or any of my NFA stuff for defense. I rely on a .45 auto,a flashlight,a 100lb German Shepard and a 250lb English Mastiff.If that's not enough,then I guess I have a problem.

That's enough... Even if you live in Mogadishu. You just have to make sure you don't accidentally shoot one of the dogs as he is ripping the guy to pieces.

But really that was the point I was trying to make. If the BG is crazy enough to face the Shepard and the Mastiff to come in he is gonna need to be shot. He is probably there to try to steal the 590A1.

 

[TXDMERC]

i prefer my 9mm pistol for home defense-make it easier to move around while aiming in any place or position for CQC. i would use my Bushmaster for SHTF like if there was a State of Emergency.

 

[terraformer]

I have a 590A1 with a 14" barrel and a pistol grip.I hold it about midway between waist and shoulder and point shoot or hold it 2 handed like a handgun.I wouldn't use it or any of my NFA stuff for defense. I rely on a .45 auto,a flashlight,a 100lb German Shepard and a 250lb English Mastiff.If that's not enough,then I guess I have a problem.

I have met your dogs. Those two beasts are the nicest dogs a guy could have. In that list your flashlight is more dangerous...

BTW: Good move on the NFA stuff. No doubt you have been schooled on the tragedy that is Gary Fadden.

 

[lupis42]

If stopping power is a concern, you can't beat this. Of course, it overpenetrates something fierce, but you can't have everything.

 

[CRSIII]

lupis, how did you get Doobie's sword!