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Gun Free Zone: Gun Club
- Thread starter Ma$$hole
- Start date
Which is a different than no guns in the clubhouse. During a class, you are going to have students handling guns. So the instructor needs to ensure that no ammunition is around.
But just guys hanging around in the clubhouse? That’s a different situation.
JDL
NES Member
Unless the class is a live fire class for safety reasons as an instructor it is important there is no live ammo or firearms in the class room except the firearms the instructor has under there control. It's just like no live ammo when you are cleaning your gun. Be proactive and avoid a potential accident. You should be happy the class had that rule because you have no idea if the others with guns and ammo in the class were knuckle heads just because you aren't.
tuna
NES Member
My kids have been sick lately and we've had to go to our Dr and the hospital quite a few times lately. Both my kids, but especially my son, love pointing out the "no weapons" sign as we go into one of the buildings. Unless I'm going through a metal detector manned by an actual cop, I don't care what your rules say.
Most stupid hunting class ever:
Not really a class, it was the rules session to hunt at Quabbin, but close enough.
The session was at 6:00 (I think, it was dark out) at Belchertown School. I expected a no guns policy, because it's a school. What I didn't expect, was to be told that because it was a school, there was to be NO SMOKING. If anyone was caught smoking on the school grounds, it was cause for losing your hunting license. WTAF? Not sure how that was enforced or legal - but I wasn't smoking at the time so I couldn't test it.
Most stupid hunting class ever:
Not really a class, it was the rules session to hunt at Quabbin, but close enough.
The session was at 6:00 (I think, it was dark out) at Belchertown School. I expected a no guns policy, because it's a school. What I didn't expect, was to be told that because it was a school, there was to be NO SMOKING. If anyone was caught smoking on the school grounds, it was cause for losing your hunting license. WTAF? Not sure how that was enforced or legal - but I wasn't smoking at the time so I couldn't test it.
Grendizer138
NES Member
Note to self: if I ever need to steal a gun, parking lot at the NRA class is the place to go.
MisterHappy
NES Member
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I've done both NRA and Mass Hunter Ed.
The rationale is that if you have novices handling firearms, you have to have a higher level of awareness/caution, than with experienced people. Having a "Sterile" classroom, with no live ammo, increases the safety factor.
Admittedly, the current HE courses generally have MassWildlife-provided dummy guns, but that's not always the case.
If you have 50 students in an HE class, ranging from 14-year-olds to 60+, some with experience, some completely new, (and age is not the deciding factor - my younger son had his NRA Instructor Cert at 13), the simple "Please leave your iron in your car, as well as its food," is a good increase to the safety margin.
My club has no prohibition on carry while on Club property; I know that many of the "Fudd" Trap shooters (myself included) may, or may not, have a handgun while on the line. Other Clubs may vary. We don't care, as long as you're safe.
Bottom line - if you're running a class, run it in the way you see best. If you're taking a class, take it where you feel comfortable.
The rationale is that if you have novices handling firearms, you have to have a higher level of awareness/caution, than with experienced people. Having a "Sterile" classroom, with no live ammo, increases the safety factor.
Admittedly, the current HE courses generally have MassWildlife-provided dummy guns, but that's not always the case.
If you have 50 students in an HE class, ranging from 14-year-olds to 60+, some with experience, some completely new, (and age is not the deciding factor - my younger son had his NRA Instructor Cert at 13), the simple "Please leave your iron in your car, as well as its food," is a good increase to the safety margin.
My club has no prohibition on carry while on Club property; I know that many of the "Fudd" Trap shooters (myself included) may, or may not, have a handgun while on the line. Other Clubs may vary. We don't care, as long as you're safe.
Bottom line - if you're running a class, run it in the way you see best. If you're taking a class, take it where you feel comfortable.
Grendizer138
NES Member
Respectfully, is it really “safer” to have students go back to their cars, unnecessarily handle their guns, and leave them for potential theft vs just starting the class with instruction that touching your gun, if you have one, is not allowed?
MisterHappy
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Yes. Because how do you define "touching"? If I'm appendix carrying, and I have to adjust the holster's position when I sit, or rise, does that count? How about if you're carrying at 4:00, and it's hitting the back of the folding chair? "I wasn't touching it, I was just moving it!"
Not being a d!ck, but if I'm running a class or event, when it comes to safety, I see myself as the arbiter of what's OK, and what is not.
As for the chance of theft, well, at least at my Club, while not zero, the chance is close to it. Is it excessive safety? Maybe. But so is opening and checking a cased gun that was locked, when you are the only one with the key. But, we do it, because history has shown it to be the wise course.
Grendizer138
NES Member
It sounds like fudd legacy nonsense to me, but agree you should run your class as you see fit.
groundscrapers
NES Member
consult with someone who works the desk at a gun store and see how shitty people are handling guns... they are in some cases one step away from the courses lol. General training from NRA is to clear the room for guns and ammo before the class starts. When doing engineering of guns we do the same as it pertains to live ammo and it only moves around the building under lock and key. Its a fairly typical practice.
Grendizer138
NES Member
No need, I’ve heard and seen plenty of incidents of bad gun-handling in gun stores - but do any of those stores ask you to leave your gun in your vehicle? Probably not.
I’m genuinely trying to understand the logic and how this is any different than gun control mentality. How is the policy of no concealed carry in a gun club any different than one in say, Home Depot or Burger King? The gun club should be much safer if anything because it’s under the watchful eye of a competent instructor.
groundscrapers
NES Member
I'm sure it was as a result of people handling weapons that were loaded in an unsafe manner. People aren't usually fiddling around with their shit at home depot but I could see someone doing that at a gun club. Most clubs don't want you f***ing around with guns when you aren't on the firing line. Most competitions don't want you running around with a carry pistol if you are shooting a rifle match.
A classroom situation is much different than people sitting/milling around in a clubhouse.
When I was a member of Sharon F&G, I received comments and stink-eye for openly carrying on the club property. It was a 100% FUDD club. I oftentimes left the clubhouse in the dark, being the only person on the property and carrying a bullseye gun box with 4 or 5 pistols, so a good target for theft on the way out.....
When I took my initial NRA instructor class with Jon Green at GOAL, about 1/3 of the class was carrying and Jon had us unload in a safe area and leave the ammo on that table during the class. From fuzzy memory I think we also had to show another student that we were clear and empty. So we had the guns on us, but no ammo during class.
So true and I've had that discussion numerous times. I've witnessed it and it's why I can't work at a gun shop, I have zero tolerance for having a gun pointed at me!!
When I was looking for a new club, it was so refreshing to stop at Braintree R&P. I was greeted by a member carrying a 6-shooter cowboy style and he gave me a tour of the club. For my 20 yrs as a member, many members carried openly or concealed and nobody gave it any thought. Similar at Mansfield F&G too, but most aren't carrying openly. At Londonderry F&G, more carry openly than concealed.
All good!!
All good!!
Back when I was in the leadership of a gun club, it took a number of years, and some turnover of the board, before I was able to convince the executive board (elected officers plus board members) to change the club rules to allow concealed carry. As for members messing around with their carry gun anywhere other than the range — we discussed that at length and wrote rules to expressly prohibit it.
Change can be hard when dealing with organizations. It can take years and repeated discussions going over the same ground to persuade people. And even then, sometimes you can’t change things until some people leave. It’s hard work. So you can get involved and work for change, or just bitch about it.
fshalor
NES Member
A teacher I've known for a while was sort of the opinion that I'd the "rule" bothered you, for the class material you probably shouldn't be armed. I'd the rule didn't "bother" you, he didn't care whether you were armed or not.
Grendizer138
NES Member
Please DM me his name so I can be sure to never take his class. Thanks in advance!
The "rule" is simple for my club. "Loaded fire arms may only be handled at a firing line". This puts it in plain English that if your carrying......keep it in the holster unless your at the line. Done. Like most clubs, gun shops etc we just don't want people handling loaded guns at random places about the property. Funny thing is....99 percent of club members would never handle a loaded holsters fire arm other than at the line anyway.....it is pure common sense. But for the 1 percent that are total retards......that would play with a fire arm in the parking lot or clubhouse......of course we have to have rules.
Neither difficult nor expensive to be NRA and state-certified as an Instructor.
fshalor
NES Member
It really sort of backs up what Hippie said.
If you are not a novice at carrying a gun, and it's concealed, and know what your doing; the rule isn't for you
If you are a fresh newbie and can't WAIT to scratch the itch of showing off your new yeet cannon in your waistband at a class with a bunch of other new shooters.... the rule IS for you, and you should follow it.
The second of those groups would be "bothered" by the rule, right? The first, like many of us, would probably just roll with the "concealed means concealed" rule, and ignore it.
EMTDAD
NES Member
This.. Jon Green per NRA required no live ammo in the classroom when I took the BHFS Instructor class. Those with carry guns had to remove magazines and ammo and place them in another room. Nobody seemed to have an issue.
Given the fact that he chastised a few in the class for unsafe handling in the pre-assessment, it probably was a good idea.
and IMHO.. my class, my rules.. don't like it, there's the door.
