Gun Free Zone: Gun Club

[Ma$$hole]

So "my friend" goes to a Hunter Safety Course today at a gun club while he was carrying. He didn't think anything of it considering he was going to a gun club after all. To his surprise, the instructor asks a class of 50 if anyone has any firearms on them and if they did they had to surrender them and put them in a locked closet in the club. The course guide later handed out a booklet in class that stated "DO NOT bring any firearms or ammunition to classes."
The instructor's reasoning for not wanting a room full of armed people was that if an incident were to occur he wouldn't want a shootout and it would more than likely reach the west coast news in seconds. This instructor said things weren't like they used to be when a kid could have a gun in his room. How can someone promoting the sport of shooting blatantly take away someone's firearm like that? I felt the same way when I was stripped of my ammo and had my gun zip tied at a gun show. If the head of these organizations don't trust a room full of legally armed citizens to make the right choices, how should we expect the pols to trust all of us? If it's not about trust and mere rights to you, these organizers are still taking away our 2A rights and how do we expect not to be "tread on" by liberal pols?
Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way but please try to talk me out of why it is okay for someone who promotes firearms to take them away. Should "my friend" write a letter to Wayne MacCallum and mention this, or should he bring this up to his instructor. It appears the organization approves disarming citizens from top to bottom. How would you react to this dilemma?

(I'm sure some of you would say "Hell, I'd walk out/leave." If you live in MA you've been pressed to run through a shitload of little loops and mazes to obtain your gun license so just leaving isn't an option.)

 

[Du510]

I wouldn't raise my hand.

This would run parallel to the previous thread debating "telling the police" when pulled over. Mouth shut, AOK.

 

[doobie]

Conceal well in that case

 

[Becka]

I've had the same experience while beginning an NRA Basic Pistol Course...no one had any problem handing over their guns (that I could tell, anyway).

 

[mikem317]

I figure the club is a private entity and they can make and enforce whatever rules they want.

I just wouldn't patronize them. Neither should "your friend".

 

[Yelena]

I don't see any problems with private organisations allowing or not allowing guns wherever they want.

 

[mikem317]

This is the reason I hardly use PayPal. In fact, I shouldn't use it ever, but eBay now has mandated all auctions be transacted using this vehemently anti-gun organization (which is rather odd; one of the co-founders I heard was a libertarian).

I don't go to Disney theme parks.
I don't buy Ben and Jerry ice cream.
I don't visit AMC movie theaters.

 

[Hiltonizer]

I figure the club is a private entity and they can make and enforce whatever rules they want.

This.

I wouldn't look at it as they are infringing on your rights, they are exercising their right to say what can and cannot be done on THEIR property.

That said, I agree in thinking it is foolish. "No loaded weapons in the club house" is common, from what I my understand. Putting the side arms in a safe is overkill IMHO.

 

[Asaltweapon]

A room full of beginners maybe? I'd like to know the club myself.

The only reason I can think of is; Was there a bar in the club?

 

[RichM]

There is a lot of firearms handling at those classes; the instructor requires that there be no ammunition present or accessible during the classes for the safety of all present. The instructors generally lead by example, as well.

During the class sessions, there is generally a lot of dry firing, and showing of all of the firearms present. Additionally, since those attending the class are inexperienced, they may not always follow the basic safety rules. By ensuring that there is no ammo in the classroom, safety is more assured.

Once the class sessions have ended, those who brought ammo may retrieve it.

 

[Ma$$hole]

I'm not going to try to bring down any club because that would just be hypocritical. Does anyone here not see the hypocracy of what they promote vs. their practices? That's like me going to a church and being yelled at when I pray. I mean sorry for the poor example but this type of business just blows my mind. I mean even consider the gun clubs. If we're not trusted with our weapons there, then why should we pay their admissions and buy guns that benefit them. Hell I say if they don't trust us with our guns, then maybe they shouln't trust us buying theirs and I'll just stick to buying my guns at shops or FTF. This is kind of a unique situation because you obviously can't strip someone of going for their basic pistol course because they aren't allowed to carry. I think if we're going to fix this whole shitty mess we're in, we need to fix it from the outside in. If you don't trust someone with a firearm quit telling them that it's their damn right because you're giving that right a big ole smack in the face!

 

[Ma$$hole]

Well if you're teaching basics then you shouldn't be pointing that gun at anything you're not willing to destroy now. That instructor shouldn't be grabbing any gun that is not his, and if he does... Um try clearning the weapon before you pick it up (another basic rule!) Don't feed me the safety bullshit or the unexperience. If they don't want loaded guns floating around say "keep your weapons holstered." Gun shops do it all the time, and people listen, and i dont have a problem with it.

 

[Bassturd]

There is a lot of firearms handling at those classes; the instructor requires that there be no ammunition present or accessible during the classes for the safety of all present. The instructors generally lead by example, as well.

During the class sessions, there is generally a lot of dry firing, and showing of all of the firearms present. Additionally, since those attending the class are inexperienced, they may not always follow the basic safety rules. By ensuring that there is no ammo in the classroom, safety is more assured.

Once the class sessions have ended, those who brought ammo may retrieve it.

Exactly.

 

[xstickfightx]

I believe I was in this class tonight also. There were a few that had to unload and lock their firearms in the closet.

I am sure there were a few others that were carrying concealed and let the firearm remain concealed.

However, I do not think asking people to unload and lock up is unreasonable in this particular setting.

 

[George D]

A room full of beginners maybe? I'd like to know the club myself.

The only reason I can think of is; Was there a bar in the club?

That would be my guess. If its an instructional seminar, there may be insurance regulations that prohibit live ammo. Whenever I hear of something that doesn't make sense, its usually because of insurance.

 

[MagnumAl]

There is no rule to tell the truth. Silence can be golden, keep the firearm concealed.

 

[mikem317]

This.

I wouldn't look at it as they are infringing on your rights, they are exercising their right to say what can and cannot be done on THEIR property.

That said, I agree in thinking it is foolish. "No loaded weapons in the club house" is common, from what I my understand. Putting the side arms in a safe is overkill IMHO.

Right. The range is private. It can and should make whatever rule it wants. If you have to balance a 5-gallon jug of spaghetti sauce on your head for the duration of the class, than so be it. Don't like it? Don't buy their course.

A room full of beginners maybe? I'd like to know the club myself.

The only reason I can think of is; Was there a bar in the club?

I'm thinking it's because they're beginners. If it was an "advanced" course, more of than not, they make you bring your guns and ammo.

 

[terraformer]

There is a lot of firearms handling at those classes; the instructor requires that there be no ammunition present or accessible during the classes for the safety of all present. The instructors generally lead by example, as well.

During the class sessions, there is generally a lot of dry firing, and showing of all of the firearms present. Additionally, since those attending the class are inexperienced, they may not always follow the basic safety rules. By ensuring that there is no ammo in the classroom, safety is more assured.

Once the class sessions have ended, those who brought ammo may retrieve it.

Exactly my understanding on why this rule is in place. Further of my understanding is that the rule comes from the NRA as part of their guidelines. For the above reason. If the instructor wasn't such a dolt, he would have known why the rule was in place instead of making up some ridiculous tale.

 

[Ma$$hole]

My only response to that is if this were to happen anywhere else again and a pat down were in order you'd probably be f'd if they were to discover a firearm on your person. When this whole "No firearms" rule comes up I tend to be honest because I hate surprises.

P.S. There isn't a bar here at this club. It could be very well for insurance purposes. It's still wrong in every which way.

 

[jack01730]

my guess, and thiss is a total guess , its the beginner safety course they expect novice snootes and cannot take sme and not,others

 

[pernox]

My personal opinion, only..

It's the ownership's right to request their own guidelines be followed. To this end, they ask anyone with a concealed firearm to surrender such for the duration of the class.

It is your right, as a human being, who is capable of making his own judgment calls, to stand and offer your firearm, or to keep it safely concealed where it can harm no one unless it needs to.

To that end, your compliance is requested, and there is no legal precedent in MA for a "gun free zone" to have any lawful authority to disarm a lawfully armed citizen.

As stated, sounds like an insurance thing to me, and discretion is the better part of valor. Or in this case, the better part of keeping your business tucked safely away where it belongs.

I agree 110% that it's a lousy state of affairs here in the seat of America's Revolution when hunting classes are flown under the "gun free" banner.

 

[MasterShinken]

I know in the NRA basic pistol class it's spelled out in the rules of the course "No firearms or live ammunition allowed in the class" this is mainly just to make sure live ammo doesn't get mixed in with the dummy ammo when practicing.

 

[Ma$$hole]

Don't buy their course.


This is the equivalent of me telling you... Oh you don't like the MA gun laws and application process? Here's a stick.. use it to defend yourself and your family. I obviously don't have a choice in the matter. If I could go somewhere else that let me hang on to my firearm I would. Things just don't happen that way.

 

[jar]

No live ammo in the classroom is a standard NRA course rule. I've had an instructor all but explicitly say 'concealed means concealed'. I've also happily unloaded and secured my firearm in classes, usually because they involved some form of live scenario role play and in that case it's an obvious safety measure. In fact, it's pretty funny in self defense training classes and seminars when it's time for scenario or FoF work watching everyone pull guns, knives, flashlights, OC, etc from every conceivable hiding place.

 

[Ma$$hole]

I know in the NRA basic pistol class it's spelled out in the rules of the course "No firearms or live ammunition allowed in the class" this is mainly just to make sure live ammo doesn't get mixed in with the dummy ammo when practicing.

"Only carry and use ammunition appropriate for your firearm."

This means... Check every round you put in your weapon whether it is a dummy or not. These instructors should practice what they preach. Hell even if it is the NRA they should practice what they preach.

I'll let the rest of you take this thread over. I've said all I needed to say about this topic. I'll be bending over and taking it just like everything else gun related in these shitty times.

 

[terraformer]

"Only carry and use ammunition appropriate for your firearm."

This means... Check every round you put in your weapon whether it is a dummy or not. These instructors should practice what they preach. Hell even if it is the NRA they should practice what they preach.

I'll let the rest of you take this thread over. I've said all I needed to say about this topic. I'll be bending over and taking it just like everything else gun related in these shitty times.

Burt in circumstances where you expect to be dry firing firearms, it is not an unreasonable request to "clear the field" if you will and request CCWs to disarm.

 

[MasterShinken]

Burt in circumstances where you expect to be dry firing firearms, it is not an unreasonable request to "clear the field" if you will and request CCWs to disarm.

I agree, As a teacher, especialy in a beginners class, I would like to eliminate as much risk as possible. with the NRA classes, it's their standard and what is expected from the NRA of their instructors. For me, it's more the piece of mind that I have eliminated a possible risk in that class. Safety is ALWAYS first in my classes.

 

[Hiltonizer]

Another thought I just had...

If this is part of a club rule, it would have to have been agreed upon by a board and a majority of people who actually go and attend meetings. Thefore I agree, assuming the following logic:

If there is ever an accidental discharge, or other incident, in this environment it could easily cause the club to be shut down (regardless of legality, which we all know means nothing today). No one wants their club shut down, and the last thing we need is one less club.

You can't fault a club for choosing its battles to survive in the political climate we are in, especially in MA. Our energy is best spent fighting the broad ignorance and disdain amongst politicians and the populace against our hobby, and our rights.

 

[Ma$$hole]

In my opinion you need to take the plank out of your eye before you try pulling splinters form others. I completely understand the safety aspect. I refuse to give up the club name. Overall, this was one of the black eyes I've seen on the inside of an organization like this. It appears this is on a national level considering it's the NRA's rules. Every system has it's flaws and hypocracies. I just happened to find one today.

 

[stinx]

When I teach a class-no loaded firearms or ammo is allowed in class. There are plenty of reports about people being injured or killed in the training environment because someone brought a loaded gun. or a supposed unloaded gun discharged killing someone.