Gun Club closure megathread

[CatSnoutSoup]

The notice on the LSA club website, as of this day, still uses the same previous language, "We will reopen once we’re able to get clarity from the state as to whether the declaration of range closings applies to private clubs."

However the post below is from FacePlant this past Sunday 4/19 and tells a completely different story in that regard, and if I actually followed FB I would have shared it here earlier.

Sorry in my opinion with regard to the outside ranges this sounds like pants wetting combined with a distrust of the common sense of the membership.
But if the board voted then the process was followed and that's that. Although I would like to have seen the yaes-and-nays of the vote posted along with this statement.




Instead of canceling repeated membership meetings, clubs might start looking at alternatives like Zoom meetings or at least Google Form type surveys on questions before the board.

 

[Tinkermatic]

The notice on the LSA club website, as of this day, still uses the same previous language, "We will reopen once we’re able to get clarity from the state as to whether the declaration of range closings applies to private clubs."

However the post below is from FacePlant this past Sunday 4/19 and tells a completely different story in that regard, and if I actually followed FB I would have shared it here earlier.

Sorry in my opinion with regard to the outside ranges this sounds like pants wetting combined with a distrust of the common sense of the membership.
But if the board voted then the process was followed and that's that. Although I would like to have seen the yaes-and-nays of the vote posted along with this statement.


Instead of canceling repeated membership meetings, clubs might start looking at alternatives like Zoom meetings or at least Google Form type surveys on questions before the board.

A vote may not have been necessary if the state offered to send MSP over with a cease and desist order if they didn’t close as they apparently did with Hopkinton.

 

[amm5061]

A vote may not have been necessary if the state offered to send MSP over with a cease and desist order if they didn’t close as they apparently did with Hopkinton.

My attitude is send us the order. Anything else is unlawful.

Instead of canceling repeated membership meetings, clubs might start looking at alternatives like Zoom meetings or at least Google Form type surveys on questions before the board.

This may actually not be possible based off of club bylaws. Changing bylaws can be a giant pain in the ass. Our club requires written notice of a special meeting to be mailed out. Then the meeting has to happen. It's easier to just cancel a couple meetings.

Also any meetings where you potentially could have 50-100 attendees become a little bit unmanageable from the practical side. I've seen this first hand with some company meetings.

 

[soam]

TL;DR: Limited re-opening of outdoor ranges at Harvard.

Update on Harvard: Starting tomorrow, the outdoor ranges will be re-opening, but with more limited operating hours and a restriction of 1 group per range, with groups comprised only of family from the same household. Groups will have to sign in at the entrance with a club representative who will be keeping track of which ranges are in use, and sign out when leaving (or if they want to go to a different range).

Members should have an e-mail with all of the details, but that's the quick summary version.
-------------
While I'm not thrilled about the restrictions, I am glad that I'll be able to bring my son to the range again. I'm probably going to just take a couple hours in the middle of a weekday this week to bring him since the weekends are going to be jam-packed.

Also, I will be bringing my machine gun.

 

[northny]

Harvard also has limitation of members only ( no guests) and shortened hours are 8 am to 5pm on IIRC. See your email for details.

 

[FalArAk]

Anybody see the new Harvard rules for range opening ? They are nothing short of completely retarded. Although im sure there are members chomping at the bit to volunteer for range nazi duties.

I am going to ask for a pro-rated refund on this years dues starting the day they closed until they open up...I suggest a LOT of people do this.

 

[soam]

Anybody see the new Harvard rules for range opening ? They are nothing short of completely retarded. Although im sure there are members chomping at the bit to volunteer for range nazi duties.

I am going to ask for a pro-rated refund on this years dues starting the day they closed until they open up...I suggest a LOT of people do this.

One less person taking up a spot, I guess.

On a more serious note, HSC is not a business, and you are not a customer. You're a member of a private club. There's no provision in the bylaws for refunds due to range closures, so you're unlikely to get anything.

You can, of course, vote with your money by choosing not to renew your membership next year.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If I were king of a club and could afford it, my position would be "You can stay a member or resign, get a pro-rated refund, and not be eligible to rejoin".

The compensation for being treated like a member (for example, dues to cover expenses rather than seek the intersection of the supply and demand curves to maximize profit) is that you have to put up with the bad as well as the good.

I am going to ask for a pro-rated refund on this years dues starting the day they closed until they open up...I suggest a LOT of people do this.

While you're at it, might as well ask that Harvard cut all staff salaries by 50% and stop paying dividends.

 

[Dan Hurley]

If I were king of a club and could afford it, my position would be "You can stay a member or resign, get a pro-rated refund, and not be eligible to rejoin".

The compensation for being treated like a member (for example, dues to cover expenses rather than seek the intersection of the supply and demand curves to maximize profit) is that you have to put up with the bad as well as the good.


While you're at it, might as well ask that Harvard cut all staff salaries by 50% and stop paying dividends.

I volunteer 100 percent of my salary to the compensation fund as well as offering the keys to the kingdom.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

I volunteer 100 percent of my salary to the compensation fund as well as offering the keys to the kingdom.

Hang in there, Dan! I'll use my two NH sons' "private" ranges till this all blows over. Jack.

 

[vicorjh]

Dan, despite the current circumstances, you've been doing a great job over there. Thanks for your hard work.

 

[Dan Hurley]

Hang in there, Dan! I'll use my two NH sons' "private" ranges till this all blows over. Jack.

I miss those boys. I remember lightin' up a bunch of steel with a pile of toys with them.

 

[In God We Trust]

The notice on the LSA club website, as of this day, still uses the same previous language, "We will reopen once we’re able to get clarity from the state as to whether the declaration of range closings applies to private clubs."

However the post below is from FacePlant this past Sunday 4/19 and tells a completely different story in that regard, and if I actually followed FB I would have shared it here earlier.

Sorry in my opinion with regard to the outside ranges this sounds like pants wetting combined with a distrust of the common sense of the membership.
But if the board voted then the process was followed and that's that. Although I would like to have seen the yaes-and-nays of the vote posted along with this statement.




Instead of canceling repeated membership meetings, clubs might start looking at alternatives like Zoom meetings or at least Google Form type surveys on questions before the board.

As far as I know Townsend R&G is still open. I haven’t been, but I still hear people banging away down there.

 

[boscru]

I volunteer 100 percent of my salary to the compensation fund as well as offering the keys to the kingdom.

the entire executive committee at my club has done the same (since the club opened before i was born) {sarcasm}

i don't know you dan hurley, but i see you are the president of HSC. not an easy job at any gun club in mass, especially considering your compensation (or lack thereof)

keep up the fight

 

[Mass-diver]

I get the feeling Marshfield is going to be closed for a long time. Outside with masks? We really can’t do that?

 

[Picton]

Outside with masks? We really can’t do that? ☹

It's been done, by some folks.

 

[Happy feet]

Anybody see the new Harvard rules for range opening ? They are nothing short of completely retarded. Although im sure there are members chomping at the bit to volunteer for range nazi duties.

I am going to ask for a pro-rated refund on this years dues starting the day they closed until they open up...I suggest a LOT of people do this.

You should be glad your club is open, mine is not, if my club were open I would be happy to bring coffee and a sub to any and all range nazi,s who volentered to made this possible. If you choose to leave this horrible club that is one of the only ones open right now please let me know so I may put in for your spot.

 

[FalArAk]

If I were king of a club and could afford it, my position would be "You can stay a member or resign, get a pro-rated refund, and not be eligible to rejoin".

The compensation for being treated like a member (for example, dues to cover expenses rather than seek the intersection of the supply and demand curves to maximize profit) is that you have to put up

You should be glad your club is open, mine is not, if my club were open I would be happy to bring coffee and a sub to any and all range nazi,s who volentered to made this possible. If you choose to leave this horrible club that is one of the only ones open right now please let me know so I may put in for your spot.

See, this is the problem. Everybody is so quick to accept the new normal without question.

Line up like sheep and take your medicine.

 

[EddieZoom]

The takeaway for me regarding Harvard is that there is an effort underway to get back to normal. Any limits or restrictions right now are going to get criticized...but I'd personally take them in heartbeat because they represent movement/effort to get back to normal.

My club remains closed.

Nice job Harvard.

 

[MICHAEL GILLETTE]

Dan, despite the current circumstances, you've been doing a great job over there. Thanks for your hard work.

Simply stated with a lot of impact

 

[soam]

See, this is the problem. Everybody is so quick to accept the new normal without question.

Line up like sheep and take your medicine.

Nobody accepts this as the new normal, nobody accepts this without question. I'm just glad the situation has improved compared to what it was before. I'm glad that dedicated people like Dan have worked hard to get to this point.

This is the last response you'll get from me, since you're clearly just looking for a fight.

 

[drgrant]

Anybody see the new Harvard rules for range opening ? They are nothing short of completely retarded. Although im sure there are members chomping at the bit to volunteer for range nazi duties.

The fun question is, were the rules brokered as a deal to get the authorities to back off, or is it just some feel good stuff to placate worry warts? The latter is much more disturbing than the
former is. The former could be considered a necessary evil in getting the club reopened. The latter as histrionics/arm flapping.

-Mike

 

[FalArAk]

The fun question is, were the rules brokered as a deal to get the authorities to back off, or is it just some feel good stuff to placate worry warts? The latter is much more disturbing than the
former is. The former could be considered a necessary evil in getting the club reopened. The latter as histrionics/arm flapping.

-Mike

That is the problem.

Like people said it is a private club. Decisions were made that effects the entire membership. Those decisions that effect the membership should be transparent and should INVOLVE the membership.

 

[soam]

The fun question is, were the rules brokered as a deal to get the authorities to back off, or is it just some feel good stuff to placate worry warts? The latter is much more disturbing than the
former is. The former could be considered a necessary evil in getting the club reopened. The latter as histrionics/arm flapping.

-Mike

It was the former.

 

[Boston4567]

The fun question is, were the rules brokered as a deal to get the authorities to back off, or is it just some feel good stuff to placate worry warts? The latter is much more disturbing than the
former is. The former could be considered a necessary evil in getting the club reopened. The latter as histrionics/arm flapping.

-Mike

What I'm learning from this crisis is, in an organization sometimes it's better to get any movement just to change the directionality and momentum of a situation from "lock down harder" to "start loosening up" even if it involves silly feel good stuff to placate idiots.

The important thing in that scenario is to get agreement to revisit all of the restrictions regularly, so you're not seen as expending political capital each time you try to move things back in the right direction.

Dealing with hysterical morons that outnumber you is difficult, but a lot of us are getting crash courses in it. At the end of the day if you deal with it correctly, reality will win out. It's hard not to be tempted to smash people with reality right in their stupid faces, instead of introducing it slowly. But the patient approach can be a better long-run strategy.

 

[drgrant]

What I'm learning from this crisis is, in an organization sometimes it's better to get any movement just to change the directionality and momentum of a situation from "lock down harder" to "start loosening up" even if it involves silly feel good stuff to placate idiots.

The important thing in that scenario is to get agreement to revisit all of the restrictions regularly, so you're not seen as expending political capital each time you try to move things back in the right direction.

Dealing with hysterical morons that outnumber you is difficult, but a lot of us are getting crash courses in it. At the end of the day if you deal with it correctly, reality will win out. It's hard not to be tempted to smash people with reality right in their stupid faces, instead of introducing it slowly. But the patient approach can be a better long-run strategy.

I agree, I am guessing the situation was something like "stay closed until general lockdown was lifted" vs "agree to silly bullshit, open". The latter is embarassing (it's basically negotiating with terrorists) but if it gains functionality of the club back for members, then so be it. It's a difficult sell that "not being able to shoot at all" is somehow better than agreeing to a dog and
pony show.

-Mike

 

[Rob Boudrie]

is somehow better than agreeing to a dog and pony show.

In some cases the "terrorists" are well meaning people who want you to be able to stay open, but have multiple constituencies to serve. Absent unambiguous guidelines, the emphasis is going to be "avoidance of doing the wrong thing". Negotiated solutions can give the local town officials the ability to tell all parties that their concerns were heard and addressed, rather than declaring a winner and loser and, in the process, pissing off part of the populace.

There are times in which the other party is the enemy than can't be bargained with, it can't be reasoned with; it doesn't feel pity remorse or fear, and it will not stop, ever, until you are disarmed. That is the case with our AG and House Speaker, but not always the case with local public servants (or overlords, depending on one's perspective).

 

[drgrant]

[/QUOTE]

In some cases the "terrorists" are well meaning people who want you to be able to stay open, but have multiple constituencies to serve. Absent unambiguous guidelines, the emphasis is going to be "avoidance of doing the wrong thing". Negotiated solutions can give the local town officials the ability to tell all parties that their concerns were heard and addressed, rather than declaring a winner and loser and, in the process, pissing off part of the populace.

I think it's distinctly possible for terrorists still being involved, just not necessarily the "well meaning people" you mention. One of those "constituencies" is probably the actual terrorist.

I could go on for a page about what I think really happened (there are basically 3 possibilities, and anyone reading between the lines can guess what they are) but I don't think it's suitable for online consumption. I'd rather just see another MA gun club get past this dog and pony show phase and reopen to something resembling normal.

-Mike

 

[Asaltweapon]

That is the problem.

Like people said it is a private club. Decisions were made that effects the entire membership. Those decisions that effect the membership should be transparent and should INVOLVE the membership.

Respectfully you should run on that platform then.
I don’t think for a split second Dan and the BOD wanted to close the club.

It might take one meeting to fill your warm shoe prints and I wish you well at your next club with RO’s at every shooting line.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Discussions of the details of negotiations while they are in progress can derail them. Discussing the details afterwards can have adverse consequences - for example, suppose you work with a mid-level apparatchik who treats you fairly and make a reasonable deal given all the parameters (s)he has to deal with. You then disclose the details and those opposed to the deal are suddenly out to get him, and you have just earned a reputation as a negotiator who will stab someone in the back once the deal is done.

There are also practical matters. You can't effectively negotiate unless the person sitting on your side of the table can agree to deals and make commitments. "I'll see what our board thinks" is not going to play well when you have a meeting on a city manager, police chiefs or health department head's calendar. This is a big issue for you, but just one of numerous things, some much more important than your issue, on their plate.

At some point, you have to put people you trust in office and rely on them. If you don't trust the leadership, run for office or find someone you do trust to back. The reason I don't run for a board slot at my local club (Hopkinton) is because the current board is doing an excellent job without my help. If I thought things were broken, I'd run for election.

If you get to be president, don't expect it to be just doing the cool stuff. The buck stops at your desk when it comes to dealing with a plugged up toilet in the clubhouse.