Glock 19 vs. Walther P99 vs. Sig 229

[PaulD]

The real answer is to try all of them and buy the one you shoot the best. All are good quality and reliable (well, I'm not sure about the Walther. They're not very popular). You don't say where you live so it may also be possible to easily try and buy an HK, Springfield XD, FN FNP, CZ75 or others also. If I didn't live in MA or another AWB state, I'd have an HK P30L without a doubt.

Personally, Glocks don't point naturally for me though I'd probably get used to it. Also, I don't have any problem with the slide release using thumbs forward on either my 226 Elite or regular 229. To the contrary, I find the slide release quite well placed. This goes along with trying them yourself instead of taking advice on the internet.

 

[reflex439]

I've shot the Glock 19 and Sig P229 quite a bit, and the targets tell me I am far more accurate with the 229 at target or SD pacing. The slide lock is perfectly placed for my grip and easy to manipulate.

I agree with others, try before you buy. Spend a few hours shooting both and you'll know which is best suited for you, rather than trying to figure it out by replies here. You'll never know the personal issues you may or may not have with them until you spend some time behind the sights.

 

[ochmude]

I hear good things about the SR9, just to further muddy the decision making waters for you.

 

[M1911]

I'm with the Glock folks. I've owned three Sigs and sold two of them -- DA/SA just doesn't work for me, the slide stop is in the wrong location, and the bore axis is too high.

 

[M1911]

The slide lock shouldn't used to release the slide as it is meant only to be used to lock the slide back not release it. After a mag change your weak hand should always pull the slide back to chamber the first round of the new mag.

No.

Of course this is my opinion but every military & police firearms trainer will agree.

No, they don't.

There are two schools of thought concerning how to close the slide during an emergency reload. The school of thought that you are promoting says you should use your weak hand to pull back the slide during an emergency reload. Their purported reason is that you will lose "fine motor skills" during a gunfight and that grabbing the slide is a "gross motor skill" but hitting the slide stop is a "fine motor skill." Of course, they never present evidence to support this, nor do they explain why they expect that you can perform the very fine and delicate control of the trigger, but not be able to smack the slide stop.

The other school of thought is to depress the slide stop, because it is 1/4 to 1/2 second faster.

At LFI-1, Mas Ayoob presented both methods, described their pros and cons, and told people to pick one and stick with it. He uses the slide stop because it is faster.

When I took a class from Randy Cain, he discussed both methods, said that at Gunsite he would be required to tell people to use the first method, and while he promoted pulling the slide back, he personally uses the slide stop.

If you have a gun with a correctly placed and reasonably sized slide stop, it is easy hit the slide stop during an emergency reload. It doesn't take much training to learn to hit it reliably.

If you prefer pulling back on the slide, that's fine. Train that way. Accept that you are giving up 1/4 to 1/2 a second on your reloads.

But don't accept the made up reasons why using the slide stop is bad. Try it yourself.

 

[M1911]

I'm not faulting anyone for training that way i'm just saying that most shooters in a stressful situation will do better with the gross motor skill movements. I'm not saying that fine motor skills can't be learned (or rather conditioned) and used effectively but most will benefit by not using such techniques as using the slide stop to release the slide. Also most don't through the hundreds of hours of training required to learn and effectively apply such skills. Maybe you did .... if so kudos to you.

I'm sorry, but you're just repeating the hooey that has been pushed by the supporters of this technique.

1) What is a fine motor skill?
2) Why is hitting the slide stop with your thumb without having to worry about disturbing the sights a fine motor skill, but squeezing the trigger without disturbing the sight alignment not a fine motor skill?
3) Why can someone learn to operate a trigger under stress, but not a slide stop?
4) Why do you accept that pulling back the slide all the way to the rear under stress is easier than pushing down on the slide stop?
5) What evidence do they have that someone can't find the slide stop under stress but can retract the slide?

This whole school of thought is based on multiple, contradictory assertions that have no evidence to back them up, and yet people accept it as gospel because they've been told that "it is more tactical". It totally mystifies me.

Have you actually tried using the slide stop to close the slide? It doesn't take hundreds of hours to learn how to do it. Far from it. Challenge your own assumptions. Go to the range and spend 30 minutes doing emergency reloads using the slide stop.

 

[PaulD]

The manual for my Kahr even goes so far as to state that they engineered the slide release to be stiffer on an empty mag as an indicator to the user that the mag is empty (which is a nice feature). HK calls it a "slide release" all over the manuals and they seem to have engineered it similarly.

 

[Dench]

Just dont buy an M&P whatever you do.

Glocks my pick.

 

[jasons]

But don't accept the made up reasons why using the slide stop is bad. Try it yourself.

Great post. I was always taught and always "just accepted" the slingshot method, but your post has me thinking that I might try switching for a while.

 

[M1911]

Great post. I was always taught and always "just accepted" the slingshot method, but your post has me thinking that I might try switching for a while.

Try it. Use the thumb of your left hand to hit the slide stop -- not your right hand, so you don't have to adjust the grip of your right hand during the magazine change. After you slam the magazine home, as your left hand acquires the grip, your left thumb should be in just the right place to hit the slide stop if you use a thumb-forward grip.

I'm not saying it is for everyone. Certainly if I had a gun with a very small slide stop (e.g., standard Glock) or a small and poorly placed slide stop (e.g., SIG), then I'd consider pulling on the slide instead.

 

[Jose]

Use the thumb of your left hand to hit the slide stop -- not your right hand, so you don't have to adjust the grip of your right hand during the magazine change. After you slam the magazine home, as your left hand acquires the grip, your left thumb should be in just the right place to hit the slide stop if you use a thumb-forward grip.

That is the method that made me change from pulling back on the slide. Even on a Glock with its standard, small slide release lever, it is still faster than reaching over and pulling the slide back.

Do the slide pullback on something like a Beretta 92 and you will find yourself pulling the trigger on a pistol that is on safe. When your hand sweeps over and back on the slide, it turns the decocker to "safe" on the 92. Try it if you don't believe me.

 

[endus]

The more I shoot my Sig the easier it gets to hit the slide release with my strong hand thumb.

Of course now I am also having trouble with the slide not locking open on the last round....lol. Stupid thumb.

 

[M1911]

That is the method that made me change from pulling back on the slide. Even on a Glock with its standard, small slide release lever, it is still faster than reaching over and pulling the slide back.

Yes, it is definitely faster. If I was carrying a Glock, I'd swap out the standard slide stop for their "extended" slide stop -- it is a bit bigger and easier to hit.

Do the slide pullback on something like a Beretta 92 and you will find yourself pulling the trigger on a pistol that is on safe. When your hand sweeps over and back on the slide, it turns the decocker to "safe" on the 92. Try it if you don't believe me.

Don't need to try it -- I'm well aware of that issue. Slide mounted safeties/decockers are just wrong.

 

[crazymjb]

I love the slide stop/release on the P229, as does my friend who carries a Glock. A P229 with Hogue wrap-arounds feels like an extension of my hand, but I have larger hands. I love the controls and ergonomics, and love the DA/SA setup. If there is anything you should get from this thread it is that different things work for different people.

Also, my girlfriend has small hands and hates the P229, so if it is for both of you that is something you will want to consider.

Mike

 

[endus]

I love the slide stop/release on the P229, as does my friend who carries a Glock. A P229 with Hogue wrap-arounds feels like an extension of my hand, but I have larger hands. I love the controls and ergonomics, and love the DA/SA setup. If there is anything you should get from this thread it is that different things work for different people.

Also, my girlfriend has small hands and hates the P229, so if it is for both of you that is something you will want to consider.

Mike

I put the hogue grips with the finger notches on mine and LOVE them. I haven't run into anyone that doesn't like them yet. The stock grips from sig are OK but the finger notches give you a really excellent grip on it.

My girl found that the beretta 92fs had too big a grip for her hands, but that the 229 was OK. Her hands aren't TOO small though.

 

[crazymjb]

My girlfriends favorite handgun to date is the 1911. Yes, the finger notches are incredible. I wish Crimson Trace would partner with Hogue, because there is no way I'd give those up.

Mike

 

[wolf223]

Just dont buy an M&P whatever you do.

Glocks my pick.

why?


out of all these i'd go with the Glock 19 through... throw a XD, M&P, 1911 and H&K and we got ourselves some a real debate.

 

[tpd223]

Glock 19


The Walters have issues, one reason why they have not sold as well as they could have.

Sigs, IMHO, are overpriced and you are paying for the name. As of late they are also having quality control issues, some of these are rather severe.

 

[TonyT]

All three are reliable. I shoot a Glock 17, Sig 226, Sig 229, Walther P99 and S&W99. I actually prefer the ergonomics and unique ambidextrous safety of the Walther P99/S&W99.

 

[DaveD]

Finally picked up a glock 19 today... NIB Gen 3 too... Thank you all for the commentary and info, I will definitely look into the extended slide release if I feel it's an issue for me

 

[appraiser]

you are not in MA so you can have the 33 round magazines from the G18, buy factory Glock ones only, and get them now before they are banned.

 

[DaveD]

searched those already and most places seem to be already on back order... any good leads?

 

[Sully]

searched those already and most places seem to be already on back order... any good leads?

I know Manchester Firing Line stocks them, or did last time I was there.

 

[MichaelJR]

Reliability: All three on the same tier

Finish/durability: Glock > Walther > Sig

Trigger: Walther (AS) is mint. The sig and the glock are whatever you like better.

Field use record: Glock wins. Sig is starting to develop a record. The P99 won't have a record.

Factory Sights: I don't know why anyone would use factory sights... This goes to sig

Weight/concealability + capacity: Glock > Walther(although it's awkwardly shaped) > Sig

Accuracy: They all will probably shoot better than you. Any direction you go here, you've got a winner, just matters which one you shoot better

Ergos: Depends on who is holding it. I hate the ergo debate.

Overall appearance: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We can all admit a glock is a face only a mother could love. I'd say close with Sig > Walther

I'm a glock guy, but I will say with all three....you can't go wrong.

 

[TonyT]

If you ever decide to carry concealed then I would opt for either the Glock or S&W99 or S&W M&P9. Fordefensiveurposes I do not want a piatol with exteranl safeties or hammer nor one that has a transition from DA to SA. I own and shoot a Glock 19, S&W99, S&W M&P9, WaltherP99, and Sig 229. The S&W has a lifetime warranty while the Walther has a1 yr. warranty. My preference would be for the superior ergonomics of either the S&W M&P9 or S&W99.

 

[MichaelJR]

If you ever decide to carry concealed then I would opt for either the Glock or S&W99 or S&W M&P9. Fordefensiveurposes I do not want a piatol with exteranl safeties or hammer nor one that has a transition from DA to SA. I own and shoot a Glock 19, S&W99, S&W M&P9, WaltherP99, and Sig 229. The S&W has a lifetime warranty while the Walther has a1 yr. warranty. My preference would be for the superior ergonomics of either the S&W M&P9 or S&W99.

......that doesn't make sense......the SW99 is literally the exact same gun as the P99....and there's DA/SA for both of them...I'm confused dude

 

[drgrant]

Great post. I was always taught and always "just accepted" the slingshot method, but your post has me thinking that I might try switching for a while.

You're a Sig guy, right? If anything, you should be using the worst part of the design to your advantage. The poor location of the lever actually lends itself to easy use as a slide release, at least it does for me. Not so much on the X5, but on the typical P series guns, I find I can hit the lever with my thumb pretty easily.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Another fun thing to add.... if you are considering the P228/P229 and have big hands... WATCH YOUR PINKY. You can easily crush the meat of your pinky finger between the mag floorplate and the grip frame, so you may have to alter your technique while reloading if you have oven mitts for hands. (I don't, but I have friends with large hands, and I've witnessed someone bruise his finger this way).

-Mike

 

[PaulD]

Another fun thing to add.... if you are considering the P228/P229 and have big hands... WATCH YOUR PINKY. You can easily crush the meat of your pinky finger between the mag floorplate and the grip frame, so you may have to alter your technique while reloading if you have oven mitts for hands. (I don't, but I have friends with large hands, and I've witnessed someone bruise his finger this way).

-Mike

Yeah, the 226 is better for this since the grip flares a bit at the bottom.

 

[jasons]

You're a Sig guy, right? If anything, you should be using the worst part of the design to your advantage. The poor location of the lever actually lends itself to easy use as a slide release, at least it does for me. Not so much on the X5, but on the typical P series guns, I find I can hit the lever with my thumb pretty easily.

-Mike

As far as autos go, yeah I seem to do better with a Sig p226 than anything else I've tried. I must have short thumbs or something because I've never experienced the "thumb on the slide catch" issue that lots of people complain about. I actually have to shift my grip just a tad to get to it with my thumb. (I do find that the skinny Houge G-10 grips help me get to it easier.)

I recently shot an IDPA practice match and even though I was telling my brain to use the slide catch my hand was still doing the slingshot thing.... A couple times I even hit the slide catch and then caught myself racking another round for no reason. Felt like quite the tool.