Glad I'm a gun owner - might have beat a home invasion

[calsdad]

Hadn't thought of that but it sounds like a very, very good idea. If you find one somewhere let me know. I'm sure that it is cheaper than having my security company install one!

On another note, while I hadn't considered that letting it be known I have guns might make me a target (just thought that would scare them off), considering Mass's insane laws, how practical is it for someone to break in and steal guns? My glock is in a safe, and my other guns are in a heavy duty floor safe bolted to the cement floor in my basement.

Granted, if they come in the house while I'm home with a gun to my head, they can get me to open the safe, but if they break in with nobody home, they can't get into that thing, and by the time they do the security company has certainly alerted the police to the break in.

Depending on what kind of safe you have - it's not much of a hindrance to somebody getting in and getting access to what is in there.

I recently bought a take down safe (comes into pieces for easier moving) and after look at it - I realize that somebody who knows how this thing was put together could get into it in no time.

With the advent of battery powered construction tools it's a simple matter of bringing a 24v portable grinder with you and cutting thru the steel. Either that or get into the house with the correct tools and find a plug. Either way - if somebody had 15 minutes and knew how a safe was constructed I can see how they would easily get in and get access to your guns.

So the first line of defense is NOT letting anybody know they are even there.

Thieves talk to thieves also. Even if these kids were looking to rob you - and let's assume they actually got away with something - some electronics or jewelry or something like that - so they go and find somebody to fence the stuff. That person asks where they got it - they mention your house, mention they saw a safe - and that they think you had guns because there was a Sig sticker on the outside or something like that.

This guy will see a jackpot - and offer the kids $200 to have them lead him and his buddies to your house. Where the stakes just went up because you are probably dealing with another whole level of criminal if you are talking about somebody who wants to get in and steal guns.

The only time you should let them know you have guns is when they are inside your house and the firearm is pointed at their head and you are pulling the trigger.......... - because they broke in and are threatening your life.

 

[seanc]

Thieves will also hit the same house numerous times.. Hit it the first time, wait for insurance to clear and wait for the owner to replace all the goodies that were stolen. Then hit it again and steal all of the replacement goodies.
This happened to a friend, the detective told him (the second time he was robbed) that tis happens quite a lot..

 

[calsdad]

Last year I crossed the line from the have something at the ready crowd to the have it on you crowd. Way too many curiosities occurring recently to make me confident that I can arm myself during or at the onset of the event. With a good holster its second nature, hidden, and ready with a quick tub.

My wife I am sure believes that I have moved to full paranoia, something I used to laugh at about as well, but having someone force their way into your home isnt a laughing matter at all.

IWB around the house = no visibly paranoid, just prepared.

Sounds like you have what I have - a political problem (with the wife).

If I get a quick access safe I can have it ready for the day when something happens. I already have her convinced we need some additional security measures around the house and I will probably be installing cameras and an alarm system. I would still feel better with a pistol that was accessible quickly - or best would be to have one on my person.

It's hard to convince a lot of people of the necessity of something until they get the crap scared out of them because they weren't prepared. Unfortunately my SO is in that camp I believe.

 

[calsdad]

Originally Posted by BOBKATT
Don't open carry when coming to the door. The police taking away your LTC is an issue that I won't get into. I'm not a lawyer. But the fact is that if bad guy is armed and sees you coming back with a gun and he is determined to overtake you then and there, bad guy gets to draw first and you can only react. Now, wouldn't you rather have the element of suprising your attacker that you are armed? There was a story not long ago about a guy faking a heart attack, standing back up with his CCW and filling both armed bad guys with lead. That is the strategy.

Now, THERE'S a clear, cogent and compelling argument against open carrying when answering the door. Well said, Bobkatt.

That would be the reason why I would say that open carry is a bad idea. If somebody is trying to put something over on you - you want to give them as little advantage as possible. If a theoretical armed invader comes into your house and threatens you with a firearm - you don't want that person to know you are armed until that split second before the bullet enters his brain as the shot goes off..........

It is inevitable that somebody who comes into your house armed is probably going to be better prepared and more ready to commit violence than you are - letting him or her know you are armed may take away the one advantage you have, and if there is somebody whom you are protecting (like your young daughters) - you may not live to regret it.

 

[Pilgrim]

Now we're even afraid to walk around in the house with a firearm showing.

Do you all draw the shades when you clean them so no neighbors or passersby can't see the awful thing you're doing?

In warmer times, I clean mine on the porch and I don't care who sees them. If I want to go to the door with one strapped on, I will, with no worry of repercussions.

I'm doing nothing wrong, and am doing nothing that will make me unsuitable. I'm not breaking or even stretching any law.


Everyday that goes by, I'm more and more amazed by the stuff I hear on gun forums.

 

[SteelShooter]

Sounds like you have what I have - a political problem (with the wife).

+1 there

 

[M1911]

Now we're even afraid to walk around in the house with a firearm showing.

Do you all draw the shades when you clean them so no neighbors or passersby can't see the awful thing you're doing?

Nice strawman argument there, Pilgrim. Not close to what I wrote, but what the heck, when has that ever stopped someone on a forum.

 

[BCEagleAce]

As a sidenote, there seem to be two very different camps forming regarding open carry in your house. While I understand the "you could show the criminals that you have guns" argument against doing it, I'm interested to know if there are any legal cases of people getting their Class A taken away and deemed "unsuitable" because they were open carrying on private property.

Is not a gun club considered private property? Clearly you have your guns out in the open when shooting at the range, right? What's the difference?

 

[Bassturd]

It is inevitable that somebody who comes into your house armed is probably going to be better prepared and more ready to commit violence than you are - letting him or her know you are armed may take away the one advantage you have, and if there is somebody whom you are protecting (like your young daughters) - you may not live to regret it.

It's always better to be prepared, even if you get chuckled at by people because of it.

I can think of many occasions participating in different outdoor activities where I got chuckled at by people for toting XYZ thing around with me, only to get envious looks later when I was the only person to have what was needed for the particular challenge. Something as simple as a hiking pole for long downward climbs. They make fun of you at first, but 2 miles later they are all in the woods looking for a suitable branch...

If you were ever in a situation where you needed to protect yourself, I don't have to tell you that the people you were wth would be happy to their core that you were prepared.

 

[terraformer]

Having kept it concealed and just turning them away the next time around is what I learned from all this... yes, 20/20 in hindsight!

It is not just because of COP/CLEO issues and possible legal issues, it is a smart move tactically. By telegraphing what you have, how you have it, etc you are providing valuable information to the BGs and allowing them ample time to adjust.

 

[clinotus]

As a sidenote, there seem to be two very different camps forming regarding open carry in your house. While I understand the "you could show the criminals that you have guns" argument against doing it, I'm interested to know if there are any legal cases of people getting their Class A taken away and deemed "unsuitable" because they were open carrying on private property.

Is not a gun club considered private property? Clearly you have your guns out in the open when shooting at the range, right? What's the difference?

The difference is in one environment you can create an offense and a hostile environment, the other is an environment in which it would be natural. The state of the offense regarding A/B really lies on whom you offend with your actions. Considering that licensing is discretionary it makes as much sense to exercise some discretion on your part as well.

 

[M1911]

As a sidenote, there seem to be two very different camps forming regarding open carry in your house. While I understand the "you could show the criminals that you have guns" argument against doing it, I'm interested to know if there are any legal cases of people getting their Class A taken away and deemed "unsuitable" because they were open carrying on private property.

Is not a gun club considered private property? Clearly you have your guns out in the open when shooting at the range, right? What's the difference?

I think the two camps are, perhaps, a bit closer than some are suggesting. I don't have any problem with open carry in my house. I do it on a regular basis. I just put on a cover garment before I answer the door. I don't open carry out in my yard.

No one is going to call the police because they see someone at the gun club with a gun -- that is expected at that location. For better or worse, people don't expect to see someone carrying a gun in my suburban location.

Someone might call the police if I answered the door with a gun visible. How realistic is that? Beats me. I just throw on a cover garment before answering the door -- I still have the gun readily accessible and I've avoided a risk (however small that risk may be).

You probably remember the fellow who was deemed unsuitable when he was leaving a pizza shop carrying a pizza and his coat blew open exposing his gun. If a CLEO decided that made him unsuitable, is it so far of a stretch to suggest that a CLEO might find someone unsuitable if they displayed a gun while answering the door? I'm not saying the CLEO would, but that he might.

Many of us carry guns and keep them for protection at home because we are taking precautions in case a very rare event happens. The reality is that most of us are likely to go through our entire lives and never need our concealed carry or home defense firearm. And yet we still take these precautions in case that rare event occurs.

My wearing a cover garment when answering the door is pretty much the same thing. I'm taking a precaution (wearing a cover garment) to prevent what is probably a very rare event from happening (power-mad CLEO deciding I'm unsuitable). I view the cover garment as cheap insurance.

 

[Bob P]

As a sidenote, there seem to be two very different camps forming regarding open carry in your house. While I understand the "you could show the criminals that you have guns" argument against doing it, I'm interested to know if there are any legal cases of people getting their Class A taken away and deemed "unsuitable" because they were open carrying on private property.

Is not a gun club considered private property? Clearly you have your guns out in the open when shooting at the range, right? What's the difference?

I'm actually a little disturbed at some of the 'grow a pair' reactions to the 'unsuitable' concern. BCEagleAce, I don't blame your show of force in this instance at all - especially as hindsight deems it was the right call. I do agree with the tactical argument as to not tipping your hand and I HAVE answered the door armed - but concealed. Calsdad, I've got 'political' worries there too.

As to legal 'cases'? I don't know of an actual lawsuit, but I do recall a news article about police responding in my town for a guy 'brandishing' a Luger in his back yard. Per the Milford Daily News police blotter - about 3 years ago - he was just walking around in the yard with the pistol and a neighbor complained. The gun was confiscated and I BELIEVE he lost his LTC -and my town is Green.

 

[trophygrl]

we had neighbors complain about us shooting in the backyard of a friend's house... the cops came and nothing happened...

we had an ample backstop, etc. we are all licensed...

not sure about the circumstances of that guy getting in trouble, but it sounds a bit harsh to take his gun, considering he was on his own property.

 

[Palladin]

my wife doesn't say a word about my guns. Last night, I check the 1st floor as we go upstairs to watch tv in the den. I sit in the recliner, take the gun out of my belt & put it on the end table next to me. When we got up to go to bed she comments:...'don't forget your cannon'

 

[calsdad]

Now we're even afraid to walk around in the house with a firearm showing.

Do you all draw the shades when you clean them so no neighbors or passersby can't see the awful thing you're doing?

In warmer times, I clean mine on the porch and I don't care who sees them. If I want to go to the door with one strapped on, I will, with no worry of repercussions.

I'm doing nothing wrong, and am doing nothing that will make me unsuitable. I'm not breaking or even stretching any law.


Everyday that goes by, I'm more and more amazed by the stuff I hear on gun forums.

If I thought that wearing a firearm or showing a firearm would stop the crime dead in it's tracks I would say you have a good point.

Problem is - I think by showing some of these criminals you have a gun - all you are doing is letting them get away that time - and come back better prepared the next time. Either show up at your house when you aren't home, or send in more dedicated and better prepared criminals the next time - because now they know you have guns.

Quite frankly I would rather not let the douchebags know I am armed - suck them into thinking I am defenseless and ignorant - let them believe that as they come into my house thinking I am a pushover - then shoot the little bastards.

Then the problem is solved once and for all.

I would like to see the statistics on subsequent breakins on houses where a burglar has been shot dead - I bet they are very very low.

 

[Palladin]

If I thought that wearing a firearm or showing a firearm would stop the crime dead in it's tracks I would say you have a good point.

Problem is - I think by showing some of these criminals you have a gun - all you are doing is letting them get away that time - and come back better prepared the next time. Either show up at your house when you aren't home, or send in more dedicated and better prepared criminals the next time - because now they know you have guns.

Quite frankly I would rather not let the douchebags know I am armed - suck them into thinking I am defenseless and ignorant - let them believe that as they come into my house thinking I am a pushover - then shoot the little bastards.

Then the problem is solved once and for all.

I would like to see the statistics on subsequent breakins on houses where a burglar has been shot dead - I bet they are very very low.

+1 good point

 

[jhblaze1]

Wow - sounds like the classic home invasion set up to me...

Couple thing to think about

Never open the door. If you don't know them AND there is a car running in the drive with two males ...really don't even open it a crack.

I would not have indicated you were going to let them in. They could have signaled the guys in the car while you were getting your Glock, then you'd be faced with a whole other problem when you returned,

I would have kept the gun hidden for tactical reasons, but I would have had it when first going to the door.

If you could see it, take down the plate number. If they were HI types, it may have been stolen. I would have called the local cops to let them know what happened.

Well done - good job

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or serious...

Please tell me you're not afraid to answer your door.

 

[Lucas McCain]

It is not just because of COP/CLEO issues and possible legal issues, it is a smart move tactically. By telegraphing what you have, how you have it, etc you are providing valuable information to the BGs and allowing them ample time to adjust.

+1 on that, You never want the enemy to know what you got for him. I never open carry anywhere but I am armed everywhere I go. Also, the term brandishing is so subjective in this assanine state, just dont do it or they will take away your right to defend you and your family.

 

[11chaos]

Interesting, but after calling my home security company about it yesterday, I just got a call from a rep at the company who wants to upsell me on video cameras. I'm thinking about it!!!

Isn't that sweet, they see an opening and they are taking it. Almost like they are sending the kids around to cause it. Of course I am kidding but some could see it that way.

As far as your security system, what happens once your power is disabled?

 

[Tater]

I've heard of younger girls doing this in pairs and once inside one asks to use the bathroom. One is using the phone looking to steal anything in reach while the other is free to go to the bathroom. They will steal prescriptions, and anything they can get their hands on. Or the other could go to the side door instead of the bathroom and unlock the door for the two males to enter. Or the female could ask to use the bathroom and unlock the window for a later burglary.

 

[Pete85]

It is not just because of COP/CLEO issues and possible legal issues, it is a smart move tactically. By telegraphing what you have, how you have it, etc you are providing valuable information to the BGs and allowing them ample time to adjust.

Agreed. Deception is just as powerful of a weapon as the glock on your hip.

 

[massgun]

I keep it simple. If I hear a knock or the doorbell, I look through the mini-blinds. If it is someone I don't know, and I'm not expecting a delivery or service person, the door is not opened.

 

[Lucas McCain]

My security system is on battery backup. IP camera's both inside and out streaming video to a DVR on site and an offsite DVR. They may get in but they wont go unidentified. Other than that, just a 5000 lb TL60 jewelers vault between them and my guns.

 

[Bruce for NH State Rep]

I am not a home safety expert or anything, but I have 2 observations.

1) I don't know that it's a good thing to let some punks know you keep guns in the house. That in and of itself could make you a target for a break-in

2) Don't be afraid to just say no. You have no obligation there. You could also just bring a cordless phone to the door and allow them to dial from there. No need to let them in the home.

+1 and +1

 

[mikem317]

This seems to be happening with an alarming frequency.

 

[BCEagleAce]

Now that I've been digesting this all day, I think my biggest mistake was a tactical one. Displaying the gun and making them aware that there are guns just gives the bad guys the information they need to be better prepared on a return visit. While I obviously don't want to lose my license, I'm far less worried about a potential perp complaining to a LEO then losing a tactical edge if the SHTF.

What I have learned is:

1) I should carry concealed at ALL times... home, work, etc. The reason to carry always is that you never know when you will need to be carrying. This seems totally clear to me now. Ironic that while most people think inside your home is the LAST place you need to carry, it is probably the MOST important place to be carrying!!! It is where you are comfortable, most unalert, and most vulnerable.

2) As safe as I may felt before, I'm not. I live in a pretty nice neighborhood, private street, fancy security system, big dog, guns, etc., and all that makes me is a TARGET. Better to be prepared and alert than complacent.

3) In the future, I will just send unwanted guests away. No open carry, just tell them to leave.

 

[rl688]

you did every thig right good job

 

[DMW]

Something to think about:

Dogs are smart but your dog might not have sensed something from these girls at that moment. A more likely scenario is that the dog heard their voices before or the sounds of the car before. Maybe they were casing your house in the past? Maybe they walked around your property at some other time (such as at night) and the dog heard their voices? Maybe they gave the dog a hard time when it was outside sometime in the past? Dogs remember these things.

A friend of mine came home once and saw that his dog had a cut above its eyebrow. A week past and he didn't think about it anymore until he noticed that his garage side window appeared to be kicked in. He thinks that the dog stopped a burglary ---- and, the dog never liked the teenaged kid next door again but was friendly to everyone else. Conclusion: probably the kid next door kicked in the window and the dog let him have it.

 

[Jose]

I wouldn't have answered the door unarmed, period.
I wouldn't let them see it unless it came down to me drawing on them.
"No, find a pay phone" would have ended it.

That would have been my way of dealing with it as well.

I wouldn't even open the door. I'd just yell at them to go away.