Friggin' Liberal Doctors!

[TReischl]

You're right, doctors should ask if you own guns in MA ...I am more likely to be depressed due to having to jump through all these hoops to obey the laws. If there were fewer laws, I'd be a much happier person.

Now THAT is funny!!!!

 

[SamH]

 

[TReischl]

When I pay for the service, I have the absolute right to control it. That's how I get off telling other people what their job description is and what they will or will not discuss with me.


That's for me to know and for you to find out.

Yup, tell em what their job description is, even though you have NO clue what it is out there in the middle of Ohio.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

This isn't hubris. It is the discipline of medicine when practiced as we are all trained.

Len beat me to the comment about Docs who tell patients with no indication of depression to get rid of their guns.

Asking a patient about guns can have a negative effect on the ability to diagnose and treat depression. If someone is a "gun person" with any real understanding of how the system works, they are going to be reluctant to seek professional help for depression if their interaction with the treating professional crosses over into the gun issue - as they know all they have to do is say one wrong thing and "pffft", someone stops by their house to confiscate their inventory.

Netdoc - are you ever concerned that the "gun question" will have a chilling effect on your patients willingness to be candid about any depression?

 

[Jose]

He WILL tell you just like Steve Jobs told his docs.....and died stupidly.

Then Jobs died like a man in control of his destiny, not like some subservient serf blindly following everything "professionals" tell him to do.

We all know you love bowing down to and never questioning authority. No need to make it any clearer.

 

[TReischl]

So true.

But if a Doc gives you meds that cause depression/suicidal thoughts and he does not know about guns in the house, it could REALLY badly. I think that is just something that a professional would want to know.

But I will agree, having discussions about "getting rid of your guns" just because you have them, is WAY out of line, unless you ARE depressed/suicidal.

 

[Jose]

Yup, tell em what their job description is, even though you have NO clue what it is out there in the middle of Ohio.

LOL....keep digging

- - - Updated - - -

So true.

But if a Doc gives you meds that cause depression/suicidal thoughts and he does not know about guns in the house, it could REALLY badly. I think that is just something that a professional would want to know.

Oh, that's right. If there are no guns in the house there is no possible way someone can off himself there.



The brainasium is that way --->

 

[TReischl]

Then Jobs died like a man in control of his destiny, not like some subservient serf blindly following everything "professionals" tell him to do.

We all know you love bowing down to and never questioning authority. No need to make it any clearer.

Is THAT what you call it? "A man in control of his destiny?" WOW!!! That is some spin!!! You missed your calling, you should be on TV!!!

How about "He died like the arrogant ass that he was, thinking he knew more than the professionals trained to heal him did." That fits much better.

 

[TReischl]

LOL....keep digging

- - - Updated - - -



Oh, that's right. If there are no guns in the house there is no possible way someone can off himself there.



The brainasium is that way --->

That is right, I forgot, you do not like to "read and comprehend". The Doc told you, guns provide a very FAST way to suicide, they are quick, they do not allow for a second chance, a phone call, a change of mind. But YOU do want to understand that, you would rather TEAR INTO SOMEONE, cause they MIGHT be anti gun. YOU ARE A HATER.

 

[TReischl]

I am backing off this frackus with Jose, Rob has asked a really good question, and I would like to see the reply.

 

[bender73]

A lot of these questions are put on the forms by people much higher up that sit in rooms, read studies, and create templates for offices to use. Some of these questions are part of the new medical standards across the nation. I ask my patients standard safety questions and never let my personal bias affect the care I give.

Your relationship with your medical provider should be a good one with mutual respect. If you do not like your doctor for trying to provide the best care then simply find another doctor who does not ask questions that hit a nerve with you.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Your relationship with your medical provider should be a good one with mutual respect.

The problem is that it is NOT just a relationship with your doctor, but with the system. Various "cover your butt" requirements and "mandated reporter" policies prevent the patient from considering the conversation with his/her doc from being an unconditionally confidential interchange.

The funniest questions I have been asked at a medical facility are "Are you having any problems paying your electric bill" and "Do you have any trouble getting enough food to eat". (The answer to the later one should have been obvious )

 

[Terminator03]

I am backing off this frackus with Jose, Rob has asked a really good question, and I would like to see the reply.

Agreed, that was an excellent question. I know that I personally would never admit to anything remotely indicating depression, or any other mental issues I might be dealing with for fear of loss of rights in this crappy state. I'm positive that I am not alone in this feeling.

 

[PatMcD]

TReischi, Ohio technically is in the Northeast part of the U.S.. Look at a map.

The asking about guns in the house thing is an anti-gun stance taken by the AMA. To argue about that fact is foolish. I've never been asked if I have a swimming pool in my backyard, yet thousands drown in them every year. I don't get asked about cell-phone use while driving, extreme motor-sports recreation, if I paint the eaves of my house from the top of a ladder, how many hours on a chainsaw do I spend every year, etc., etc..
It is none of the Dr.'s damn business.

P.S., my wife works in a hospital and just about all of the doctors are hunters.

 

[bender73]

The problem is that it is NOT just a relationship with your doctor, but with the system. Various "cover your butt" requirements and "mandated reporter" policies prevent the patient from considering the conversation with his/her doc from being an unconditionally confidential interchange.

The funniest questions I have been asked at a medical facility are "Are you having any problems paying your electric bill" and "Do you have any trouble getting enough food to eat". (The answer to the later one should have been obvious )

Nurses, doctors, social workers, etc. are all mandated reporters. This is a serious issue across the USA and not just with regards to those that practice medicine. Anything that is said is 100% confidential and protected unless, and only unless, there is very good reason to believe one may harm themself or others.

 

[TReischl]

Agreed, that was an excellent question. I know that I personally would never admit to anything remotely indicating depression, or any other mental issues I might be dealing with for fear of loss of rights in this crappy state. I'm positive that I am not alone in this feeling.

I am hoping NetDoc checks this thread so we get an answer. One of the problems that I see continually with this forum is that SOME of the folks get very insulting when they perceive anything that they think might be anti-gun in nature. They just don't seem to be able to argue/discuss an issue or topic without the name calling or insults. As a result, folks with some real smarts just move on and we do not get to hear their thoughts. Instead, we get to read stooopid insults that the clowns think are clever. It gets old, real fast.

 

[Jose]

Anything that is said is 100% confidential and protected unless, and only unless, there is very good reason to believe one may harm themself or others.

You just contradicted yourself, didn't you?

 

[TReischl]

TReischi, Ohio technically is in the Northeast part of the U.S.. Look at a map.

The asking about guns in the house thing is an anti-gun stance taken by the AMA. To argue about that fact is foolish. I've never been asked if I have a swimming pool in my backyard, yet thousands drown in them every year. I don't get asked about cell-phone use while driving, extreme motor-sports recreation, if I paint the eaves of my house from the top of a ladder, how many hours on a chainsaw do I spend every year, etc., etc..
It is none of the Dr.'s damn business.

P.S., my wife works in a hospital and just about all of the doctors are hunters.

You do not define the Northeast Region of the US by "looking" at a map. The US Census Bureau defines it, and it does not include Ohio. You may look that up for yourself.

I think you just contradicted yourself? You stated the AMA asking about guns is an anti gun stance, then at the end, you say that just about all the doctors in your wife's hospital are hunters....huh? That does not add up.

At any rate, your just stating that to "argue about that fact is foolish" does not prove YOUR argument. Statements about swimming pools, cell phones, etc are immaterial. People do not commit suicide by "painting of eaves" (though someone might contemplate suicide when faced with it). It is also difficult to commit suicide by attempting to drown yourself, or talk yourself to death on a phone (though it might happen to some teenage girls).

The subject is suicide, doctors ask because it is related to depression, and some of the meds they prescride increase depression. There is a connection.

 

[TReischl]

If some drugs are known to have such side effects, why would anyone blindly follow the doc's advice and take them? People need to do their own homework and stop running to Dr. every time they get a runny nose or have a stressful week at work.

The docs have no need to know if I have a gun, a knife, a rope, a belt, a razor blade, a car and garden hose, or a 4th floor balcony. If I am at the doctor's, it is for a legit medical reason. Treat the problem, send me a bill, MYOFB.

It is not an issue of just blindly following the docs advice.

High cholesterol. statin drugs. We are NOT going to argue about homeopathic remedies.

They are known to cause depression. It can be severe.

This is not running to the doc with a runny nose. It is minding his business.

LOTS of people take these drugs. LOTS of people who take them have guns. Those people need to be made aware of what can happen, that they may become depressed, have suicidal thoughts and that they need to be aware of what is happening to them.

 

[bender73]

You just contradicted yourself, didn't you?

Not at all. This is the medical standard across the nation. We are all mandated reporters that MUST follow these guidelines set by the medical community in conjunction with law. I didn't make these rules, but I am required to follow them. And, they have saved many people from tragedy. If you don't agree, nobody is going to argue with you, at least I am not. It is your choice if you want to seek healthcare.

 

[Gidge]

Appropriate answer is "boundary violation".

This I like -- use their own psychobabble against them !

 

[Terminator03]

You just contradicted yourself, didn't you?

That is not a contradiction because of the word "unless". That implies that there is an exception to that statement.

 

[Gidge]

...It is your choice if you want to seek healthcare.

Medical tyrrany at its finest. A Hobson's choice really -- submit to us or we will not treat you-- must be nice to have THAT kind of leverage.

 

[Jose]

Not at all. This is the medical standard across the nation. We are all mandated reporters that MUST follow these guidelines set by the medical community in conjunction with law.

Well then not everything I say to a doctor is 100% confidental, which is what you said.

I will seek healthcare when I need it or want it, and I will control what information the doctor gets.

 

[TReischl]

Look, they would rather YOU did not ask about the guns. That way, when someone in their family took some drugs that caused depression and offed themselves with their .44 Mag, they could blame YOU (cause by all that is holy, they are only responsible for themselves), then use the legal system (which they profoundly hate) and sue the living crap out of YOU. Of course claiming it was YOUR duty to inform them(but not ask them on a form). The lawsuit done via a lawyer(who they all hate, unless they are fighting for gun rights)

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If some drugs are known to have such side effects, why would anyone blindly follow the doc's advice and take them?

A friend of mine killed himself after taking one of these drugs. It was for treatment of epileptic seizures, not depression.

I don't know what advice he was given regarding this side effect, however, the appropriate way to handle it would not have been "do you own a gun" (I think this person would have been savvy enough to say no), but to discuss the suicidal side effect so he could make his own decision regarding what action was appropriate.

 

[Terminator03]

I am hoping NetDoc checks this thread so we get an answer. One of the problems that I see continually with this forum is that SOME of the folks get very insulting when they perceive anything that they think might be anti-gun in nature. They just don't seem to be able to argue/discuss an issue or topic without the name calling or insults. As a result, folks with some real smarts just move on and we do not get to hear their thoughts. Instead, we get to read stooopid insults that the clowns think are clever. It gets old, real fast.

I agree, and have stepped out of several discussions in the past when my opinions were deemed to be "anti" by certain members who typically enter these threads just to insult people who may have an opinion different than theirs. The only reason I stuck around is that I saw that most folks here are reasonable, and a few can even have a rational disagreement and argue intelligently without dropping into the gutter with insults. There are only a few members that predictably troll threads looking stir up shit.

 

[Len-2A Training]

But if a Doc gives you meds that cause depression/suicidal thoughts and he does not know about guns in the house, it could REALLY badly. I think that is just something that a professional would want to know.

Is there a car at the house? Bottom line is that if a doc prescribes meds that create depression/suicidal thoughts, said doc should advise that person (and spouse/SO) that while under treatment they shouldn't be making ANY judgment decisions, not drive, not use machinery or other dangerous devices (that would cover guns w/o getting into what do you own, get rid of them issues).

Oh, that's right. If there are no guns in the house there is no possible way someone can off himself there.

As I stated above . . .

I remember a news story where a guy committed suicide by driving at a high rate of speed into a bridge abutment on either I-95 or I-495 (don't recall which hwy) in Attleboro area one day some years ago.

The problem is that it is NOT just a relationship with your doctor, but with the system. Various "cover your butt" requirements and "mandated reporter" policies prevent the patient from considering the conversation with his/her doc from being an unconditionally confidential interchange.

The funniest questions I have been asked at a medical facility are "Are you having any problems paying your electric bill" and "Do you have any trouble getting enough food to eat". (The answer to the later one should have been obvious )

Once said info is entered into the computerized databases with insurance company access or gov't access (if not now, I'm sure that ObamaCare will change that "for the good of all"), all bets are off on confidentiality. Most companies that write medical insurance also write life insurance and things like gun info can effect their "judgment" on who they will cover. I don't trust databases. Hackers are another great possibility . . . many so-called secure gov't sites have been hacked and medical databases are ripe for the pickings (DOB, SSN, etc. great for stealing identities) . . . and eventually will fall victim to hackers, it's just a matter of time.

Rob, when my Father's Parents were alive there was a saying in that house that only the fastest (to grab the food) were well-fed!

Agreed, that was an excellent question. I know that I personally would never admit to anything remotely indicating depression, or any other mental issues I might be dealing with for fear of loss of rights in this crappy state. I'm positive that I am not alone in this feeling.

Yes, this is a real problem. You can lose many of your "rights" by making such an admission and thus many will not do so.

The asking about guns in the house thing is an anti-gun stance taken by the AMA. To argue about that fact is foolish. I've never been asked if I have a swimming pool in my backyard, yet thousands drown in them every year.

To me, the type of questions NOT asked are an important indicator that the gun question is part of a political agenda by the AMA and some other medical groups.

Nurses, doctors, social workers, etc. are all mandated reporters. This is a serious issue across the USA and not just with regards to those that practice medicine. Anything that is said is 100% confidential and protected unless, and only unless, there is very good reason to believe one may harm themself or others.

. . . if the gov't determines that it is in the "best interest" of gov't NOT to maintain confidentiality, then it won't be confidential. Anyone read every page of the Obamacare plan to ensure that this isn't already covered? (serious question)

The subject is suicide, doctors ask because it is related to depression, and some of the meds they prescribe increase depression. There is a connection.

Docs are TOO FAST to prescribe depression meds that can and do have massive effects on the person! Even my doc admitted this when we were having a casual discussion about medical care in general. Lots of things in everyone's lives don't work out the way we would like and lead to temporary disappointment (one could call it "depression") that we can easily work our way out of w/o heavy meds!

 

[bill o]

Depression is an illness that physicians are trained to treat, and it is a substantial part of the practice of any internist. It is there job to look for, detect, and treat depression in their patients. And, in depressed patients, it is their job to assess the risk of suicide, both in the thoughts of the patient and the likelihood of it occurring. Patients saved from suicides by medication and other treatment are typically very pleased that they weren't simply ignored.

Studies on suicide and guns aren't "anti" studies. They are medical studies. Like it or not, sometimes the weight of medical literature falls in the wrong direction for convenience. For years, people railed against studies showing the danger of smoking. Whether or not you take that risk, there is no question about the conclusion that smoking causes emphysema and lung cancer. Same thing here; there are enough well done studies demonstrating this risk to demonstrate that it is correct. When published in places like the NEJM, they have been scrutinized by expert statisticians before being published.

Good medicine (esp. internal medicine, family medicine and pediatrics) isn't just about fixing a broken bone or treating high blood pressure. It SHOULD be about caring about the patient as a whole - their "medical" problem, the interaction with their psychological state, and their social milieu. Their goal is to maintain patients in a happy, healthy state.

This isn't hubris. It is the discipline of medicine when practiced as we are all trained.

Netdoc,
Can you point to one of these studies you think is particularly compelling? All the ones I've seen (Kellerman and Hemenway come to mind) use an incorrect case-control methodology. People self-select their gun ownership, and their means of suicide, which is a real problem for the researcher.

I would give some credibility a time-series approach, which shows co-movement of all-method suicide and gun availability before and after some event or law that causes a change in gun availability.

Incorrect methodology is common in the literature, especially when MDs go outside their realm of expertise. Guns are not viruses, and it is bad science to study them as such.

 

[bender73]

Medical tyrrany at its finest.

Wow. Tough crowd. People want us to take care of them, especially in their time of need, but don't want us to ask certain questions because they feel we are being intrusive. I am seeing a lot of posts here that are unreasonable. We try (most) to be be very good at what we do and then get slammed for doing it, and yes, sometimes we ask things that are a little personal. But, it really is in your best interest. You do not have to answer.

Questions are asked with the goal of being able to quickly identify and fix past, present, and future problems to the best of one's ability. Not to offend you. I don't know what else to say, it is your choice.