Doctors & Firearms Screening

[MaverickNH]

I’m reviewing a manuscript from UCLA where they split two incoming medical student classes in half, trained one half on screening for firearms and suicide and not training the other half. They then followed the students in clinical education 6mo later, where they interview a new mother with clinically significant postpartum depression - if asked, the script called for the new mother to say she kept a gun in her nightstand. Of the 300 students, only 3 actually did a firearms screening, with most later saying it didn’t come to mind or that had too little time. Actually, those that were trained said it didn’t cross their mind more often (62% vs 40%) and that they didn’t have enough time less often (25% vs 42%).

While authors suggested that role playing in firearms screening and repeated training might help increase the frequency of screening, I told the authors that I think the medical students were not being straightforward in their answers. How can those trained to council patients have a statistically significant ~50% reduction in “it crossing their mind”? I think they consciously avoided firearms screening, while the untrained group actually didn’t think about it.

Only 1 in 150 trained students did a firearms screening (0.7%) when they were trained to recognize suicide risks in postpartum depression. That’s not gonna get better with a few more training sessions. Only if institutions prompt such screening in records will that number increase. Most don’t/won’t go there.

Not that I think firearms screening is a good idea. But if a patient exhibits suicidal thoughts, they need some help. Guns, pills, asphyxiation - the focus should not be on the means, but on the suicidal intent.

 

[Boarder700]

Sounds like those who went through the training learned how foolish firearms screening is. Probably also got a little pissed that they had to waste time on it when they could be learning something useful. When someone wastes my time trying to convince me to waste more time doing something stupid I’m even less likely to do it.

Like you said, try to offer real help to those who need it. Focus should be on their mental stability, not what is in their bedside table.

 

[ddeck]

Women also have a much lower rate of suicide attempts by firearm. So, it would make sense that doctors wouldn’t necessarily ask that question. The preferred methods for women are pharmaceuticals and cutting themselves (exsanguination). Asking either of those questions would be pointless since almost everyone has pharmaceuticals and sharp objects.

 

[Bigfudge16]

if a patient exhibits suicidal thoughts, they need some help. Guns, pills, asphyxiation - the focus should not be on the means, but on the suicidal intent.

This

 

[Kevin_NH]

How long before Canada goes full Kevorkian, and instead of screening against suicide, MAiD training for medical students to counsel "new mother with clinically significant postpartum depression" on the best dosage to get the job done, where to find a "baby box" drop station, and how to ensure minimum cleanup for their survivors?

 

[tuna]

How long before Canada goes full Kevorkian, and instead of screening against suicide, MAiD training for medical students to counsel "new mother with clinically significant postpartum depression" on the best dosage to get the job done, where to find a "baby box" drop station, and how to ensure minimum cleanup for their survivors?

I’m not opposed to this, it covers all the bases.

 

[240Geezer]

Never had them ask about firearms, though I expect it.
They do ask about mental state.
Answers always the same.
No No No and happy as a clam

 

[SavageShooter]

I’m reviewing a manuscript from UCLA where they split two incoming medical student classes in half, trained one half on screening for firearms and suicide and not training the other half. They then followed the students in clinical education 6mo later, where they interview a new mother with clinically significant postpartum depression - if asked, the script called for the new mother to say she kept a gun in her nightstand. Of the 300 students, only 3 actually did a firearms screening, with most later saying it didn’t come to mind or that had too little time. Actually, those that were trained said it didn’t cross their mind more often (62% vs 40%) and that they didn’t have enough time less often (25% vs 42%).

While authors suggested that role playing in firearms screening and repeated training might help increase the frequency of screening, I told the authors that I think the medical students were not being straightforward in their answers. How can those trained to council patients have a statistically significant ~50% reduction in “it crossing their mind”? I think they consciously avoided firearms screening, while the untrained group actually didn’t think about it.

Only 1 in 150 trained students did a firearms screening (0.7%) when they were trained to recognize suicide risks in postpartum depression. That’s not gonna get better with a few more training sessions. Only if institutions prompt such screening in records will that number increase. Most don’t/won’t go there.

Not that I think firearms screening is a good idea. But if a patient exhibits suicidal thoughts, they need some help. Guns, pills, asphyxiation - the focus should not be on the means, but on the suicidal intent.

Another complete waste of time. Japan has, for all practical purposes, a complete ban on the private possession of firearms. The per capita suicide rate there is the highest of any developed nation. Hanging and jumping are the typical suicide methods there. Unfortunately, if someone is determined to kill themself, not a whole lot can be done to prevent it.

 

[shootymacshootface]

They should ask if they have access to water.

 

[paul73]

Unfortunately, if someone is determined to

it is never about prevention, it is only about obedience.

 

[richc]

Twelve out of ten MD's will tell you most patients lie anyways...

 

[MAGA99]

I was once asked about guns from an MD, new patient screening (back when they were giving me a new PC every year, which was f***ing annoying). He was a foreigner. ‘Do you have any guns in your house??’ Me: f*** yeah! I have a gun in this room, you can subtract about 2lbs from my weight out in the hallway’. Clueless Asian Dr: ‘what kind of firearms do you have in your home?? (Clearly ignoring my previous answer). Me: ‘all kinds, you name it, I got it, I’m something of a firearms enthusiast, you might say’. Clueless Asian Dr.: ‘how do you store them?’ Me: ‘none of your f***ing business.’ And that was that. Never saw that chink again. That was two docs ago. Finally have a good one….she is supposed to ask about kung flu vaccine, I say no, she moves on. At the end she talks off the mic, and says she wouldn’t recommend it but is supposed to at least ask. This is DH.

Twelve out of ten MD's will tell you most patients lie anyways...

Edit: she’s not guilty, but she doesn’t touch my Johnson…..I’d be alright with it.

 

[SavageShooter]

I was once asked about guns from an MD, new patient screening (back when they were giving me a new PC every year, which was f***ing annoying). He was a foreigner. ‘Do you have any guns in your house??’ Me: f*** yeah! I have a gun in this room, you can subtract about 2lbs from my weight out in the hallway’. Clueless Asian Dr: ‘what kind of firearms do you have in your home?? (Clearly ignoring my previous answer). Me: ‘all kinds, you name it, I got it, I’m something of a firearms enthusiast, you might say’. Clueless Asian Dr.: ‘how do you store them?’ Me: ‘none of your f***ing business.’ And that was that. Never saw that chink again. That was two docs ago. Finally have a good one….she is supposed to ask about kung flu vaccine, I say no, she moves on. At the end she talks off the mic, and says she wouldn’t recommend it but is supposed to at least ask. This is DH.

Edit: she’s not guilty, but she doesn’t touch my Johnson…..I’d be alright with it.

If Day's bill gets signed into law, the number of authorized "red flag" reporters increases exponentially. Personally, I wouldn't even admit to owning a pocket knife in front of medical types, much less any type of gun!

 

[rogersmithiii]

I’m reviewing a manuscript from UCLA where they split two incoming medical student classes in half, trained one half on screening for firearms and suicide and not training the other half. They then followed the students in clinical education 6mo later, where they interview a new mother with clinically significant postpartum depression - if asked, the script called for the new mother to say she kept a gun in her nightstand. Of the 300 students, only 3 actually did a firearms screening, with most later saying it didn’t come to mind or that had too little time. Actually, those that were trained said it didn’t cross their mind more often (62% vs 40%) and that they didn’t have enough time less often (25% vs 42%).

While authors suggested that role playing in firearms screening and repeated training might help increase the frequency of screening, I told the authors that I think the medical students were not being straightforward in their answers. How can those trained to council patients have a statistically significant ~50% reduction in “it crossing their mind”? I think they consciously avoided firearms screening, while the untrained group actually didn’t think about it.

Only 1 in 150 trained students did a firearms screening (0.7%) when they were trained to recognize suicide risks in postpartum depression. That’s not gonna get better with a few more training sessions. Only if institutions prompt such screening in records will that number increase. Most don’t/won’t go there.

Not that I think firearms screening is a good idea. But if a patient exhibits suicidal thoughts, they need some help. Guns, pills, asphyxiation - the focus should not be on the means, but on the suicidal intent.

Is voting Democrat a suicidal thought??

 

[MAGA99]

If Day's bill gets signed into law, the number of authorized "red flag" reporters increases exponentially. Personally, I wouldn't even admit to owning a pocket knife in front of medical types, much less any type of gun!

I’m in NH.

 

[LTCRN]

Finally have a good one….she is supposed to ask about kung flu vaccine, I say no, she moves on. At the end she talks off the mic, and says she wouldn’t recommend it but is supposed to at least ask. This is DH.

My PCP doesn't recommend the new vaccine either. Oh, by the way, he loves AR's and has a few that he built too!

 

[71montess]

My PCP doesn't recommend the new vaccine either. Oh, by the way, he loves AR's and has a few that he built too!

My sister said her doctor didn’t recommend the new shot either.

 

[Broc]

I will put my money on this stupid a** training never focusing on the WHY.

The reason I say that is because I see so many trainings fail at the WHY.

 

[Broc]

I was once asked about guns from an MD, new patient screening (back when they were giving me a new PC every year, which was f***ing annoying). He was a foreigner. ‘Do you have any guns in your house??’ Me: f*** yeah! I have a gun in this room, you can subtract about 2lbs from my weight out in the hallway’. Clueless Asian Dr: ‘what kind of firearms do you have in your home?? (Clearly ignoring my previous answer). Me: ‘all kinds, you name it, I got it, I’m something of a firearms enthusiast, you might say’. Clueless Asian Dr.: ‘how do you store them?’ Me: ‘none of your f***ing business.’ And that was that. Never saw that chink again. That was two docs ago. Finally have a good one….she is supposed to ask about kung flu vaccine, I say no, she moves on. At the end she talks off the mic, and says she wouldn’t recommend it but is supposed to at least ask. This is DH.

Edit: she’s not guilty, but she doesn’t touch my Johnson…..I’d be alright with it.

A simple "NO" is a lot easier.

Congrats, there is a file somewhere saying you are a gun owner and get easily aggravated.

 

[MAGA99]

A simple "NO" is a lot easier.

Congrats, there is a file somewhere saying you are a gun owner and get easily aggravated.

Meh.

 

[MaverickNH]

The Doctor Will Ask About Your Gun Now

More physicians are making gun safety part of routine visits. But should they be?

www.theatlantic.com

”In the past few years, the White House has declared firearm injury an epidemic, and the CDC and National Institutes of Health have begun offering grants for prevention research. Meanwhile, dozens of medical societies agree that gun injury is a public-health crisis and that health-care providers have to help stop it.”

As long as there is grant money to be had, medical societies agree they should get that money. That’s called motivated reasoning.

 

[GL2020]

The Doctor Will Ask About Your Gun Now

More physicians are making gun safety part of routine visits. But should they be?

www.theatlantic.com

”In the past few years, the White House has declared firearm injury an epidemic, and the CDC and National Institutes of Health have begun offering grants for prevention research. Meanwhile, dozens of medical societies agree that gun injury is a public-health crisis and that health-care providers have to help stop it.”

As long as there is grant money to be had, medical societies agree they should get that money. That’s called motivated reasoning.

My doc has been asking for about 10 years now.

Doesn't push when I decline to answer the question or say "no". I switch back and forth

 

[Palladin]

2008, my son's first pediatrician

From a 2008 Post:

when my now 9yo son was 1yo, we took him a a local Ped for a checkup. after the usual stuff, he starts asking about if we drink, how much, etc. I'm getting a little pissed....as he's writing all this down. Then he asks if there are any guns in the house..."that's none of your F'ing business"...him: 'well, we just want to make sure that any weapons are stored securely and not available to children" me: "again, that's none of your F'ing business"..him: "are your weapons secured properly?" me: (as I stand up and lift my sweatshirt displaying my G23) "yeah, I think it's pretty secure"
he shit a football and that was the end of the questions.....as we're leaving my wife says.."you always have to be a showoff don't you?'

 

[Palladin]

My new response is going to be something on the line of..."as we're talking about safety, you should wear a rubber when you're getting railed up the ass"

Yeah. I'm using this