Former Cop to Test University Gun Rules

[OfficerObie59]

Actually, the TRO has probably created standing for court action against the policy, thus saving the protesters both the inconvenience of a possible arrest and exposure to the elements. By shifting legal action to a TRO, rather than criminal charge, the system has lost several intimidation techniques it can use to bully the actors into copping a plea (elevating the charges to something like assault because people were frightened; putting the concept of a felony on the table; threatening a jury trial at which gun owners are disqualified; etc.).

Having the TRO declared invalid would, in and of itself, be a substantial victory - perhaps as much as an actual victory against a carry charge.

There are several issues regarding lawful carry at NH universities:

1. Can an individual be arrested for simply carrying?

2. If the answer is no, can an individual be ordered to vacate public areas or face charges for carrying?

3. May the university take non-judicial disciplinary action against a student who complies with the law, but violates school weapons policy?

4. Ditto for employees

There are actually lots of issues on the table.

Presumably, the "T" is indeed "temporary" pending a decision by the court regarding a more permanent addressing of the issues.

Also, if you want to deal with the courts effectively the wisest course is fighting their game using the legal system, rather than expressing righteous indignation against an order you don't agree with. The court does not care what you think of the order but, lawful or not, has the force of law behind it until the order expires or is vacated the court that issued it or a higher court.

Mr. Boudrie is correct, the judge did these guys a big favor and gave them the means to have this settled by the courts without risking arresting. Of course, if the intent of the protest was to create a public spectacle the TRO isn't as useful.

Agreed on the TRO giving them easier standing. In addition, often when we're talking about equitable remedies that are possibly rights-infringing, the appeals process is usually amped up to warp speed.

While I agree with Mr. Boudrie's potential questions, the overriding issue to me seems to be indeed whether the NH University is a "political subdivision" for the purposes of the firearms law preemtion statute. If the courts determine that it isn't, seems to me all the subsequent questions become irrelevent--as a matter of judicial restraint, courts usually will not (and should not) venture into discussion of the statutory and constitutional issues of a case if discussion is mooted by a condition precedent.

As the courts may see it, there seems to be a lot more than whether the UNH system is indeed a political subdivsion. Including any relevent case law, some of the questions you need to be asking are what was the legislative intent of the premption statute, and if the words "political subdivsion" have application to statewide departments in other contexts. Was it meant to apply to agencies with statewide jurisdiction, or only subordinate governments in New Hampshire? Does the University system have express or implied delegation of authority from the legislature to promulgate such rules? Was the intent of the statute to make the legislature the last word on gun laws, or to simply make sure that cities and towns couldn't pass more restrictive ordinances?

It'll be an interesting legal battle for sure, but again, I agree that the TRO did more help than hinder.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Does the University system have express or implied delegation of authority from the legislature to promulgate such rules?

And, if it does, doesthis authority allow the university system to declare violation of said rules a criminal offense, or simply permit them to take action such as order the violator to vacate the property, and/or take internal non-judicial discipline against a member of the campus community over whom they exercise power (students, employees)? The difference between the two outcomes is very significant.

Another issue should be "private security" vs. "sworn university police". There could be some interesting legal issues regarding use of police powers to enforce administrative rules - for example, if the courts find that UNH may ban guns and take internal discipline against violators, but that it cannot make violation a crime, would it then be lawful for the university police to use their powers to enforce a "rule"? Would a judge grant a warrant to search a student's car based on credible evidence he was violating a "rule", but no evidence he was breaking the law?

There are all sorts of interesting legal questions that arise when a governmental entity is empowered to make "rules", but those "rules" are not actually "laws" or codified regulations granted the status of the law by enabling statutes (for example, MA CMRs)

It'll be an interesting legal battle for sure, but again, I agree that the TRO did more help than hinder.

Only if the reaction is filing of a proper legal action by competent counsel, rather than public acts of protest and expressions of disapproval of the TRO.

 

[ARV]

Not knowing seemed to particularly agitate and annoy one woman who was questioning them.

I'll never understand what causes this. These people feel they HAVE to know, or have a right to know, if someones carrying, IF they are told the person might be. BUT they dont walk around asking everyone they meet if they have a gun...

 

[KBCraig]

In my opinion these guys just went from heroes to tools. NH is the underground bastion of civil gun rights (liberal castle doctrine, cheapest CCW license with the least red tape in the country, class III friendly, etc, etc). If these guys went the legal route they could have pretty easily gotten the restraining order overturned...

Please scroll back up and read Rob's comments in #18.

PSU handed them legal standing on a silver platter. They are following "the legal route", and will be in court Tuesday for the RO hearing. They fully complied with the terms of the TRO. What would you propose they do differently, to "easily (get) the restraining order overturned"?

If you'd like to contribute to "the legal route", they have a Chipin account. You can read the details here:

http://freekeene.com/2011/12/10/help-defend-self-defense-rights-in-new-hampshire/

 

[BBradUMA]

In my opinion these guys just went from heroes to tools. NH is the underground bastion of civil gun rights (liberal castle doctrine, cheapest CCW license with the least red tape in the country, class III friendly, etc, etc). If these guys went the legal route they could have pretty easily gotten the restraining order overturned and gathered great momentum for the Concealed Carry on Campus movement and greater civil rights for everyone who works for or attends college. I'm sure Pro-Gun NH would have helped them fight for their rights.

Now they look like trouble makers and no judge will take them seriously. I hope I'm wrong and this was part of a bigger plan but I doubt it.

Had we gotten arrested for violating the court order, it would have taken the argument completely away from our arrest for violating illegal regulations to us being bad guys who violate a court order. USNH was counting on the fact that we would get arrested and that they could then paint us as contemptuous of the court. We did everything they didn't want us to do.

There was discussion regarding whether or not USNH is a political subdivision. I actually blogged about this very issue: http://freekeene.com/2011/12/06/is-the-university-system-of-new-hampshire-a-political-subdivision/ - hopefully that will clear up the questions.

Not getting arrested for contempt was a strategic decision... the ultimate goal of which is to unwind the illegal regulations and enhance firearm/self-defense freedom in New Hampshire. I would have gladly gotten arrested for failing to leave the property because I was carrying a firearm without the court order. The TRO in fact, as someone mentioned, makes this process much quicker because we now have the right to a "due-process" hearing as the order was issued ex parte.

Thank you KBCraig for pointing out our chip-in. I am actually going to start a new thread specifically seeking donations to help our legal battle up here. Anyone who has questions about the case before considering donating, please PM me. I'll happily give you my phone number and would be happy to talk to you and answer all questions.

- Bradley

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Not getting arrested for contempt was a strategic decision..

Well played sir.

The TRO in fact, as someone mentioned, makes this process much quicker because we now have the right to a "due-process" hearing as the order was issued ex parte.

Wow - they not only handed you standing but gift wrapped it for the holiday season.

 

[xtry51]

Link to new funding thread?

 

[caboose84]

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...-defend-self-defense-freedom-in-New-Hampshire

 

[BBradUMA]

Well played sir.



Wow - they not only handed you standing but gift wrapped it for the holiday season.

Exactly, and thank you!

I actually received a phone call from the PSU Vice President for Student Affairs this morning thanking me (and everyone who helped) for such a positive outreach effort.

See? Firearm owners are responsible people who want to make their communities safer!

 

[BBradUMA]

Link to new funding thread?

Thank you to everyone who has donated. We are almost 1/3 of the way there

If you can think of anywhere that you could post that link for us, we'd appreciate it massively!

 

[design]

My you guys have been busy...

I was busy on several other things since last Monday and I see four pages of replies.

Here is what I posted on another gun forum:

To those that were upset by the judges ruling that the School could continue to ban firearms for all citizens. (Professors, Grad students as well as the full time students) Here is a way to help.

The lawyers that are working to correct the injustice by PSU are willing to donate time, but there are real costs in fighting a court battle.
Please consider chipping in $10 for this fight:
http://bbraduma.chipin.com/university-system-of-new-hampshire-v-bradley-jardis-and-tommy-mozingo
-design

 

[BBradUMA]

Thank you very much design!

An update for all of you: We had our hearing and are scheduled to return on 01/03/12 to argue constitutional law. This case I will have to pay for out of pocket if I cannot get enough donations.

Please spread the word and our chip-in link http://bbraduma.chipin.com/university-system-of-new-hampshire-v-bradley-jardis-and-tommy-mozingo

Thanks!!!

Bradley

 

[Joe G]

In. Worth some bucks to see the courts move in a positive direction for gun owners. I only wish it could have happened in MA.

 

[SClaflin]

Was there a request made to the NHCLU to assist with the case? I'm not naive enough to think that they would have accepted it (they are too busy supporting sex offenders' rights), but more curious if they declined to do so.

Steve

 

[KBCraig]

Thanks for those who have chipped in. It's good to see that the average donation is running about $38~39. If just a hundred NESers kicked in ten bucks apiece, they would be over their goal.

I don't know Tommy personally, but I've been online friends with Brad for a few years now. I even quit LEAP in protest after they kicked him out. He's a very principled and honorable defender of individual rights.

Listen up, NES: I'm sorry for shouting, but you need to understand that Brad quit the police force after realizing that he could no longer arrest people for "crimes" that don't harm others. He then had a religious conversion that led him to personally eschew all use of force, even in defense. But because he believes in individual freedom for all, this man who doesn't even own a gun, was willing to risk arrest and carry a rifle around a public university campus to defend your right to do so.

Seriously, skip two Starbucks this week, and give ten bucks to the legal fund.

http://bbraduma.chipin.com/university-system-of-new-hampshire-v-bradley-jardis-and-tommy-mozingo

 

[design]

^^ What he said!

Guys,
If we all chipped in $10, we would have a better chance at winning this case. We cannot leave the fighting up to just a select few.

-Design

 

[Mikel131]

Sent in 10 for the good fight Mike

 

[Night_solstice]

Donated.

 

[xtry51]

Money en route.

 

[BBradUMA]

The Grafton County Superior Court (Judge Vaughn) has ordered briefs on the constitutionality of the ban by January 3rd. Hopefully the decision will come out shortly after... and hopefully it will dissolve the injunction. I've already made the USNH General Counsel and the PSU Vice President for Student Affairs aware that if the injunction is dropped we will be organizing a state-wide "open carry litter pickup tour" where 2nd Amendment activists will be going to each publicly owned property, open carrying, cleaning, and handing out literature on a free firearms safety class we will be offering at each location.

If the case is unsuccessful in the Grafton Superior Court, we will definitely be appealing to the NH Supreme Court. There are quite a few representatives in the NH General Court who are watching USNH's reaction to this issue very closely as they believe their gun policy is completely contrary to established law. If an appeal to the NH Supreme Court becomes necessary, we will be launching a website to support the endeavor.

Thank you all very much for your moral and financial support!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Just made a modest donation.

Folks - it's not just the $$, but the show of support. Everyone of you who chips in is letting brad feel a bit less alone in his fight.

 

[SteelShooter]

Donated

 

[BigDaddyAl]

Done. Please keep us updated.

 

[flotter390]

Just donated.

Fred

 

[OfficerObie59]

There was discussion regarding whether or not USNH is a political subdivision. I actually blogged about this very issue: http://freekeene.com/2011/12/06/is-the-university-system-of-new-hampshire-a-political-subdivision/ - hopefully that will clear up the questions.

Compelling for sure, but far from binding.

Nonetheless, I damn sure hope to see you prevail.

 

[wacky_doug]

Just donated. Good luck!

 

[JFR2]

Chipped in a small amount.

-JR

 

[BBradUMA]

Thank you all for your donations... We're up to $760 I believe!!!

 

[dwarven1]

Put my money where my mouth is, too.