GunGrey
Banned
BBBAAHHHHH, BAAAAHHHHH
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Ok so what do we do about it. I been trying to draft up a letter to send off to? Other than. The director of the chsb who else should I write to and how should it be sent.
Maybe we can do a nes group letter send off so they are flooded all at once.
maybe one of the lawers here on nes can draft a letter we can print and sign then mail.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
ntomsw
Banned
People may think the eFA-10 is more convenient, but I still won't use it. That to me is giving the man exactly what he wants. I have FA-10's that I use, and will continue to use for as long as I want to. I don't think we should have to use them. I for 1 choose FA-10 paper form, over the eFA-10 cluster ****.
There are still plenty of PD's that stock the forms. I posted the info a few posts back.
There are still plenty of PD's that stock the forms. I posted the info a few posts back.
GunGrey
Banned
I have just been using the FA10 forms. i dont even bother with the online shit, last time i need one i went to the westfield PD. When i asked they said they didnt know where they were and to use online. I said No ill wait while you go look for them i have plenty of time.
ntomsw
Banned
No letter from a lawyer or anything will change their minds. So, for now just keep using the FA-10 forms and piss them off that way instead.
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PD's that tell you to use the online system, and that is the only system being accepted are full of shit. The real FA-10 forms are still being accepted.
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PD's that tell you to use the online system, and that is the only system being accepted are full of shit. The real FA-10 forms are still being accepted.
inerlogic
NES Member
making friends at the FRB
my version of "Adobe"
yeh.... i don't have "Adobe" installed, that's gotta be the problem.... f****** mouth breather.....
ETA: i found her facebook page... so i send her a PM on FB asking if she found my form yet?
my version of "Adobe"
yeh.... i don't have "Adobe" installed, that's gotta be the problem.... f****** mouth breather.....
ETA: i found her facebook page... so i send her a PM on FB asking if she found my form yet?
namedpipes
NES Member
making friends at the FRB
...
my version of "Adobe"
...
ETA: i found her facebook page... so i send her a PM on FB asking if she found my form yet?
Clearly you incompetently installed the Adobe. Or maybe she is an Air-head.
Well done.
In Nazi Germany there was an "escape proof" prison (not Stalag 13) called Colditz, built in a medieval castle. The prisoners used techniques varying from tunneling, riding out as laundry and even built an airplane.
One of the prisoners cultivated "dry rot" and seeded his fungii throughout the castle. He knew he would never live to see the results, but decades later the castle would begin to disintegrate.
The point is, anything that makes life just a little more miserable for Miss Turbo and her pals is good.
turbo38gn
NES Member
namedpipes
NES Member
OOhh, look at you.. soooo smart and oh so clever...![[laugh2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/014.gif "Laugh at above [laugh2]")
Hey. Just assumed you were the FRBy in question.
I didn't read through this thread's entire 51 pages of joy (sorry for that). I have just one question; why does GOAL recommend we not use the online form for registering firearms transactions? Sure seems a lot easier than hunting down paper forms.
namedpipes
NES Member
Unconstitutional behavior by the gov't isn't supposed to be easy.
From an IT standpoint, when it rolled out it set off bells and whistles to any correctly configured browser that indicated that it was not setup by competent web programmers and posed potential, serious, risks to any user of said system to continue while ignoring those risks.
turbo38gn
NES Member
Aren't you lucky, you have a dog that drinks water out of a cup, a porpoise and a clown answering your question...
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
It's a dolphin.
And a Muppet.
And a Muppet.
and given turbo's post - add another clown.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Ugh.. where to begin..
- From a technical standpoint it's a poorly designed system that's insecure and faulty on many levels. It exposes everyone involved with potential data corruption or theft or deliberate mis-insertion of data. That can mean that your information could be stolen, or that the state could think incorrectly that you've sold more than four guns a year (outside the legal limit) or that you failed to register a transaction you were supposed to. So, it doesn't work.
- From a legal standpoint, the law says you have to inform the FRB *in writing*, on a form provided by the FRB, and you have to sign the form. That's impossible with the online form.
- From a civil rights standpoint, it's not constitutional to limit a right to only those with means. The state has been very stingy with the paper forms, essentially forcing those who don't have a stash into using the eFA10; which requires a new enough computer to run new enough software, and an internet connection. It further limits even those with both to doing transfers only in places where they have those. If you have a wireless card for your laptop you can meet someone at a club or something, but if you don't, you're forced to meet someone at your house or theirs. Those are unreasonable restrictions on a civil right. The paper form (which also has problems, it's not "OK" either) at least could be filled out with a pen in a parking lot, club, back alley, cabin in the woods, whatever.
GOAL's objections only address the first bullet I believe. Many here (myself included) think nobody should use the eFA10, for the above reasons and because every time you use it, it's another data point the FRB can use to say, "Look how many people used the online system! We don't need to print paper forms anymore." At which point we'll be forced to use the faulty, unconstitutional online one, or simply stop complying with the transaction registration laws entirely.
The state has been stingy with the paper forms, they're increasingly difficult to get. Once they're gone, all it takes is an "accident" at the FRB so their web server stops working, and face to face transactions become de-facto criminalized.
turbo38gn
NES Member
ok, so what has GOAL done in the last year to "fix" this? I see no updates in this thread or the GOAL website as to any effort in reguard to a solution to the supposed issues. I see absolutely nothing wrong with an online form providing the paper forms are available, it all ends up in the same data base. As far as the other issues, I only use it for personal transfers. So what has been done to fix it since October of last year....
one more thing porpoise - dolphin... still a fish, muppett or clown = still makes me laugh...
one more thing porpoise - dolphin... still a fish, muppett or clown = still makes me laugh...
inerlogic
NES Member
- Even the paper forms end up in the same database. ANY database is hackable and since the police can access it from their stations, someone could possibly break into it/damage the data/create data/steal info. I'm not a computer security expert but I'm not sure that the e-form or paper are really any different wrt this risk. [And many gov't databases get hacked. Those affected are SOL and almost never even notified.] I did point out to Jason the opportunity for fraud (transactions that never took place) and he didn't seem concerned . . . yes, it still concerns me and I want signatures!
- Jason once mentioned that the legislature passed an over-riding law to go computerization of records over paper across all branches. It allows for "enter" to equal a signed form under pains and penalties of perjury. I can't provide a citation (never asked, never looked for it) but from reading about similar changes across the country wrt serving legal papers and filing them electronically, I have every reason to believe this to be true. This would over-ride the words in the MGL specifying how we have to notify CJIS/FRB about transfers.
- I also believe that FRB attempted to get local PDs on board to hand out hard-copy FA-10s, but many just don't want to be bothered and refuse to stock the forms or just throw them out when they receive them. Not much FRB can do about it and GOAL can't either unless they have a "mole" inside who can testify to what is being done in each PD!
- I agree about the issues surrounding where e-transactions have to take place, not being able to print at remote places, etc. I don't think that you need new/exotic hardware to run Adobe Reader (free DL), and I do understand that one could write down all the info and go into a Starbucks/Public Library and fill out forms online, but only during their business hours . . . still a massive inconvenience.
- I don't think that GOAL can do anything unless they have specific info on a particular PD getting forms and refusing to give them out . . . and that would strictly be political pressure . . . might work and might not. State wants "paperless" records across the board (e.g. file your taxes online, pay your bills online, renew your DL online, etc.) so they won't be sympathetic to our issues . . . and yes, each of these involves risk of database hacking and stealing identities!
So, I'm with you but I just don't think we'll get anywhere with our complaints!
- Jason once mentioned that the legislature passed an over-riding law to go computerization of records over paper across all branches. It allows for "enter" to equal a signed form under pains and penalties of perjury. I can't provide a citation (never asked, never looked for it) but from reading about similar changes across the country wrt serving legal papers and filing them electronically, I have every reason to believe this to be true. This would over-ride the words in the MGL specifying how we have to notify CJIS/FRB about transfers.
- I also believe that FRB attempted to get local PDs on board to hand out hard-copy FA-10s, but many just don't want to be bothered and refuse to stock the forms or just throw them out when they receive them. Not much FRB can do about it and GOAL can't either unless they have a "mole" inside who can testify to what is being done in each PD!
- I agree about the issues surrounding where e-transactions have to take place, not being able to print at remote places, etc. I don't think that you need new/exotic hardware to run Adobe Reader (free DL), and I do understand that one could write down all the info and go into a Starbucks/Public Library and fill out forms online, but only during their business hours . . . still a massive inconvenience.
- I don't think that GOAL can do anything unless they have specific info on a particular PD getting forms and refusing to give them out . . . and that would strictly be political pressure . . . might work and might not. State wants "paperless" records across the board (e.g. file your taxes online, pay your bills online, renew your DL online, etc.) so they won't be sympathetic to our issues . . . and yes, each of these involves risk of database hacking and stealing identities!
So, I'm with you but I just don't think we'll get anywhere with our complaints!
namedpipes
NES Member
It is relatively trivial to design a database with a single source of truth (scanned paper) and a read only replica that "others" such as police, etc. can access.
Indisputable.
Stealing information from a read only database isn't any harder than stealing it from a read-write database. Absolutely our personal data is at greater risk today than it was.
Actually, thinking about it some more . . . the real risk is NOT database hackers, but gov't hacks that SELL your info to others! Remember the RMV scandal where employees were selling SSNs and DLs to illegals a few years ago? [BTW, this is nothing new . . . before the computer age when I was graduating college I got a call at home from a life insurance salesman who admitted to me that he bought the entire NU graduating class list from a work-study student working in the college Registrars Office and was pestering every one of us to buy life insurance. That was supposed to be restricted info to the college only and this was in 1970!]
You're welcome. I just wish I could be more encouraging, but I'm a realist.
Bullshit. The FRB can go back to mailing them directly to individuals who request them.
This from Jason directly . . .
They did mail them to us upon request until Jason saw people on NES bragging about scooping a stash of forms! FRB was paying for the forms out of a continually diminishing budget (cuts each year) and it pissed him off, so he stopped sending to individuals.
Just reporting what I was told . . .
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
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