Dumb guy at the range

[xtry51]

I don't like people loading guns behind the line or handling (supposedly) unloaded guns when I'm downrange. Basic safety rules - treat every gun as if it's loaded, so if I put up a target, turn around, and you have a gun in your hand, I will be very clear as to what I think of you and you are absolutely getting reported. A shooting range is not the place to go lax on safety.

I agree with not moving guns while downrange, but I think the "no handling behind the line" is ridiculous. Everyone has to handle firearms behind the line. That's how guns get to the line. What you really mean is "don't muzzle sweep me or finger bang the trigger behind the line". Which should be the rules enforced.

 

[Periphery]

My cousin who isn't familiar with firearms left an empty shell in my lever gun and a round in the tube with the safety off. I probably should've checked right away.

 

[Bdh821]

I swear no matter where I go, there's always someone who's all tacticooled out that has poor muzzle control. I think I need to be more assertive with these offenders about it. I'd just think they'd know better since they've clearly invested a lot of money into looking the part...

 

[EMTDAD]

I'll admit.. I did something stupid a month or so ago... I'm a fairly new shooter.. was shooting at MFS when hot brass landed right between my eyebrow and safety glasses and got under my glasses and started burning my eyelid.. I panicked a bit and took my glasses off without first putting down the firearm. I turned from the range with the handgun pointed towards the ceiling, finger on the trigger, probably only a second or 2 until I regained enough sense to remember to put the firearm down pointed downrange and gather myself.

I felt horrible about it for days... really beat myself up internally. [sad2] Learned a good lesson.

I try to tell myself... there are 4 rules for a reason.. break 1, probably ok but try not to do it again.. Break 2, things are getting hairy. Break 3, and there's a good chance of a serious shitshow. Break 4 and there's likely someone hurt.

I apologize if any NES'ers saw that and were like.. "what a tool that guy is.".

 

[Len-2A Training]

At one club I belong to, a number of years ago I dropped by to see if a particular person was there (50BMG). As I walked into one range there were 5 guys there and from their chit-chat (I wear electronic ear pro) it was obvious that they were off-duty cops, 2 of them went downrange to change targets while two were at the bench fiddling with the guns (actions closed of course). Knowing from personal experience that cops are never wrong and that you can't correct them as it doesn't end well, I just beat feet out of there so if they shoot each other I'm not around. I did let the club president know but since none of them signed in (club rules violation) we had no idea who they were.

At my other club, where I'm an RO one day/month, someone "'asked" for a cease fire and then immediately started walking downrange to setup his target as people were still shooting! Protocol is to request a cease fire and then when everyone finishes the mag in their gun, benches it and steps back behind the line, you turn the light on (primarily for those walking into the range during a cease fire) before going down range. I yelled at him, called him back and then tried to educate him about the protocol.

 

[bigblue]

I'll admit.. I did something stupid a month or so ago... I'm a fairly new shooter.. was shooting at MFS when hot brass landed right between my eyebrow and safety glasses and got under my glasses and started burning my eyelid.. I panicked a bit and took my glasses off without first putting down the firearm. I turned from the range with the handgun pointed towards the ceiling, finger on the trigger, probably only a second or 2 until I regained enough sense to remember to put the firearm down pointed downrange and gather myself.

I felt horrible about it for days... really beat myself up internally. [sad2] Learned a good lesson.

I try to tell myself... there are 4 rules for a reason.. break 1, probably ok but try not to do it again.. Break 2, things are getting hairy. Break 3, and there's a good chance of a serious shitshow. Break 4 and there's likely someone hurt.

I apologize if any NES'ers saw that and were like.. "what a tool that guy is.".

Nah, you probably blended right in.


Xtry: In tight quarters, having a loaded weapon behind the line and NOT sweeping someone can be nearly impossible. On a rifle range, how many chances are you going to get if some meathead loads his AR10, racks a round, walks up to the line and stumbles?

Loading mags behind the line is fine. I don't want you pointing a weapon at me or my family. You won't get a second chance. If you are behind the line with a weapon there is a damn good chance that you will do just that moving to a shooting position. Rules like that are there to make sure the 4 rules don't get broken and even still we see morons manage to break them.

 

[NHAtHeart]

I'll admit.. I did something stupid a month or so ago... I'm a fairly new shooter.. was shooting at MFS when hot brass landed right between my eyebrow and safety glasses and got under my glasses and started burning my eyelid.. I panicked a bit and took my glasses off without first putting down the firearm. I turned from the range with the handgun pointed towards the ceiling, finger on the trigger, probably only a second or 2 until I regained enough sense to remember to put the firearm down pointed downrange and gather myself.

I felt horrible about it for days... really beat myself up internally. [sad2] Learned a good lesson.

I try to tell myself... there are 4 rules for a reason.. break 1, probably ok but try not to do it again.. Break 2, things are getting hairy. Break 3, and there's a good chance of a serious shitshow. Break 4 and there's likely someone hurt.

I apologize if any NES'ers saw that and were like.. "what a tool that guy is.".

At least you kept it pointed at the ceiling, had you swept the line that would have been a real WTF moment. The 4 rules are there for a reason, as check points, like you said, if you only break one odds are nobody gets hurt, it's the people that consistently break 2 or 3 that are a recipe for disaster.

 

[AngelKing]

stapling targets downrange, seeing someone at the table fiddling with the rifle pointed directly at my ass. OK I don't know if it was aimed at my ass, but still.

 

[Andy in NH]

I apologize if any NES'ers saw that and were like.. "what a tool that guy is.".

Expect the "other side of the story" thread anytime now.

 

[DW357]

4. Do NOT handle firearms when someone is downrange. Yes, this too I have seen many times.

I think my story will take the cake for this thread (unfortunately):

I was at my club when a guy shot off his AR (that he was having trouble with) with two guys down range. Yes we all called a cease fire and stepped behind our yellow line, but I was talking to another guy while two other guys set up targets. Me and the guy chatting had our backs turned away from the guy with a jammed AR and next thing I know my ears are ringing from 5.56 blast under a roof - ouch! Both of us immediately turn around and asked WTF just happened/why are you not behind the line! Says he's sorry and was trying to figure out what was causing issues with his AR. Guys down range were freaking out and gave that guy a bunch of shit for doing that (as they should!).

Needless to say, that member was banned soon after....

 

[Chet0729]

Question: if you're supposed to sweep up after yourself and your brass is intermingled with those of other shooters', what do you do? I don't want to leave a mess behind when I leave the range, nor do I want to piss off others. FWIW, I toss it all in the brass bucket. Thanks.

If I am there and saving my brass, I will just tell you to leave it and i will take care of it. i do this all the time on the indoor range so i dont have to stop shooting so someone can sweep.

 

[Chet0729]

Outdoor range a few years ago. Shooting a rifle out to 100 yards with my son. Two guys come in and stand there for about 20 or so seconds. Figured they are going to wait till my son finished a mag.....dud just walks out with a metal target to set it up about 20 yards to my left between the benches....while my son is still shooting. I yell cease fire which my son does. I lost it.....yelled at the guy what the **** are you doing the range was not clear or cold. He said he was sorry but didnt want to bother me and he was in a hurry cuz he had to get to work. Wtf

My brother and i had something similar. We shoot almost every Sunday at WPRC. We were there a couple years ago shooting at the 100 Yard range and this car pulls in, parks right next to the shooting bench. Two guys jump out and start heading down range. We stop shooting of course and yell at them. The guy says you guys were shooting at the hundred and we are setting up at the 25 so you wont hit us.
Packed up and left. if they have no respect for their lives the certainly wont have any for ours.

 

[Pinion]

I paint the ass end of all my rounds with fluorescent orange. Makes it easier to find in the grass and I know they're mine.

 

[DW357]

My brother and i had something similar. We shoot almost every Sunday at WPRC. We were there a couple years ago shooting at the 100 Yard range and this car pulls in, parks right next to the shooting bench. Two guys jump out and start heading down range. We stop shooting of course and yell at them. The guy says you guys were shooting at the hundred and we are setting up at the 25 so you wont hit us.
Packed up and left. if they have no respect for their lives the certainly wont have any for ours.

Outdoor range a few years ago. Shooting a rifle out to 100 yards with my son. Two guys come in and stand there for about 20 or so seconds. Figured they are going to wait till my son finished a mag.....dud just walks out with a metal target to set it up about 20 yards to my left between the benches....while my son is still shooting. I yell cease fire which my son does. I lost it.....yelled at the guy what the **** are you doing the range was not clear or cold. He said he was sorry but didnt want to bother me and he was in a hurry cuz he had to get to work. Wtf

WOW That's scary to know that some gun owners actually think that's okay

 

[northny]

30+ years ago. At a range that was 100 yards long, and likely 100 yards wide where you can set your target stand at either 25, 50 75 or 100 yards. Myself and another gent were at farthest end or range from where road enters (it was in the shade), and while walking to targets with lights on, guy pulls in at other end or range. While we are changing targets new guy sets stands at 25 yards, and while we are walking back about 50 yards out WITH THE LIGHTS STILL ON, new guy starts firing at his 25 yards target with a .45. We start yelling and running back to line. Before we are even back to the line, the guy holsters pistol, jumps in car and takes off, leaving spare mag and mostly full box of ammo on bench and ear muffs on the ground. We never did find out who it was, but I got the ammo and buddy got the mag and muffs.

 

[DW357]

30+ years ago. At a range that was 100 yards long, and likely 100 yards wide where you can set your target stand at either 25, 50 75 or 100 yards. Myself and another gent were at farthest end or range from where road enters (it was in the shade), and while walking to targets with lights on, guy pulls in at other end or range. While we are changing targets new guy sets stands at 25 yards, and while we are walking back about 50 yards out WITH THE LIGHTS STILL ON, new guy starts firing at his 25 yards target with a .45. We start yelling and running back to line. Before we are even back to the line, the guy holsters pistol, jumps in car and takes off, leaving spare mag and mostly full box of ammo on bench and ear muffs on the ground. We never did find out who it was, but I got the ammo and buddy got the mag and muffs.

Holy s*** Glad you're alive to tell the tale.

 

[kalash]

Nah, you probably blended right in.


Xtry: In tight quarters, having a loaded weapon behind the line and NOT sweeping someone can be nearly impossible. On a rifle range, how many chances are you going to get if some meathead loads his AR10, racks a round, walks up to the line and stumbles?

Loading mags behind the line is fine. I don't want you pointing a weapon at me or my family. You won't get a second chance. If you are behind the line with a weapon there is a damn good chance that you will do just that moving to a shooting position. Rules like that are there to make sure the 4 rules don't get broken and even still we see morons manage to break them.

This is something that bugs me about the plate racks at Hopkinton - there's no defined firing line. I'm fine if it's just you, me, and the Russian because I trust you two not to be idiots (maybe I shouldn't ) but with other shooters there I pay really close attention when walking up to shoot and they're back at the tables.

 

[xtry51]

Nah, you probably blended right in.


Xtry: In tight quarters, having a loaded weapon behind the line and NOT sweeping someone can be nearly impossible. On a rifle range, how many chances are you going to get if some meathead loads his AR10, racks a round, walks up to the line and stumbles?

Loading mags behind the line is fine. I don't want you pointing a weapon at me or my family. You won't get a second chance. If you are behind the line with a weapon there is a damn good chance that you will do just that moving to a shooting position. Rules like that are there to make sure the 4 rules don't get broken and even still we see morons manage to break them.

That's 100% false. I take training courses and there's frequently 10-15 guys with pistols and rifles all gathered up loading mags and making weapons hot in tight quarters.

I don't care if you have a loaded AR10 behind the line. Keep the safety on and your finger off the trigger. Guns don't go off because you trip.

Positive control of the rifle/pistol and keep it pointed at the floor. End of story.

 

[alpine951]

Noob here. No LTC yet. just took basic course a few weeks ago and had an hour live session with an instructor outside at WPRC so far. Lots of good info here (common sense). My plan is to got to MFS once I get my LTC to rent first to see what handgun makes sense. Do ranges typically post protocol and how you go about changing a target and anything else important? I stopped in there yesterday at lunch just to check out the place. Didn't think to ask this when I was there (dumb)..

 

[bigblue]

This is something that bugs me about the plate racks at Hopkinton - there's no defined firing line. I'm fine if it's just you, me, and the Russian because I trust you two not to be idiots (maybe I shouldn't ) but with other shooters there I pay really close attention when walking up to shoot and they're back at the tables.

and that goes to what Xtry is trying to bring up (I think): Trustworthy people who follow the four rules can be perfectly safe. It is when all manner of strangers are introduced that things can go awry. In all fairness, the other Russian shot her LCR and thought it was clear but didn't check. First thing the Russian did was clear it when she brought it back to the table: Round in the chamber. Muzzle was in a safe direction and finger off trigger but it only takes a few seconds of breaking the rules for someone to get hurt. I think that we are aware of each other to the point that we can safely RSO each other without tension.

Also, something that hasn't been broached yet: Having a rifle on a sling is not immediately a safety concern, just so the FUDDs are perfectly clear.

Noob here. No LTC yet. just took basic course a few weeks ago and had an hour live session with an instructor outside at WPRC so far. Lots of good info here (common sense). My plan is to got to MFS once I get my LTC to rent first to see what handgun makes sense. Do ranges typically post protocol and how you go about changing a target and anything else important? I stopped in there yesterday at lunch just to check out the place. Didn't think to ask this when I was there (dumb)..

MFS has a mechanized target system that does not require you to go down range.


Xtry, I am not talking about highly trained individuals. I think that we are all talking about the lowest common denominator in this thread. The assumption (on my part) is that the four basic rules aren't enough because a large number of people think "the safety is on and its unloaded so I can point it wherever". How many times have you seen a gun that is supposedly "safe & unloaded" where the shooter racks the slide and a round pops out?

 

[xtry51]

My main point is you only need the four rules. All the other rules just create clutter and distract from being responsible. If you see someone with a gun and they have their finger on the trigger or are sweeping, say something. Don't get into a diatribe about "range rules". Focus on the fact that you don't want to be shot and they're putting your life at risk by being stupid.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Noob here. No LTC yet. just took basic course a few weeks ago and had an hour live session with an instructor outside at WPRC so far. Lots of good info here (common sense). My plan is to got to MFS once I get my LTC to rent first to see what handgun makes sense. Do ranges typically post protocol and how you go about changing a target and anything else important? I stopped in there yesterday at lunch just to check out the place. Didn't think to ask this when I was there (dumb)..

I haven't been to MFS since they first opened with the small range. However, I do believe that they have a system where "the targets come to you" so nobody has to go downrange to change targets. Going downrange to change targets is mostly an outdoor range thing these days.

 

[bigblue]

My main point is you only need the four rules. All the other rules just create clutter and distract from being responsible. If you see someone with a gun and they have their finger on the trigger or are sweeping, say something. Don't get into a diatribe about "range rules". Focus on the fact that you don't want to be shot and they're putting your life at risk by being stupid.

I agree with most of that. However, adding a buffer to some of those rules provides responsible people with additional protection from the imbeciles who think they are safe but don't have the self awareness to actually be safe.

 

[n1bsbri]

I see zero problem with this. If this bothers you, people carrying guns in general should bother you, because they're all loaded.

When people are carrying loaded guns, I expect (demand?) that they keep the ****ing things holstered. When somebody is holding it in his hands, that's a no-go for me, unless he is planning to defend his life, and I would do likewise.

 

[xtry51]

When people are carrying loaded guns, I expect (demand?) that they keep the ****ing things holstered. When somebody is holding it in his hands, that's a no-go for me, unless he is planning to defend his life, and I would do likewise.

We're talking about being at the range. And you can't holster a rifle.

 

[northny]

This is somewhere between a plea and a PSA (public service announcement) about an unsafe action I experience quite frequently at the range, and it is more about education than stupidity. I think that everyone that hand loads ammo knows that you need to be focused and without distraction while reloading, and you would never walk over and start a conversation with someone who was reloading ammo at home.

Well the same concept holds for someone hand loading a muzzle loader at a range. Never interrupt a muzzle loader when they are in the process of reloading a muzzle loader. Catch them right after a shot or better yet when the range is cold, but avoid them like the plague when they are charging the rifle.

I spend a lot of time the past decade on two key muzzle loading forums, and the guys are brutally honest in reporting when someone ruins a barrel with a double charge (two power charges or two bullets, or two complete charges stacked one on top of the other). I would say 75% of the time, the shooter was distracted by someone while reloading. (and of course the shooter compounded the problem by using not using a witness mark or other safety proceedures, and ultimately the responsibility still rests with the shooter) The good news is that with modern in line muzzle loaders from better manufacturers the barrel just bulge and don't blow up, and the shooter has a sore shoulder, a head ache and maybe scope eye. And they have turned a $300 - $400 barrel into a tomato stake.

I run a couple of custom muzzle loading rifles that I built myself. Things like Sky-blue laminate thumb hole stock, stainless action and fluted stainless barrel, (one of the 50 cals has a brake on it). Between cool looking rifles and and trying to one hole a group at 100 yards, they attract some attention. Thats great , and I love talking about them. Just not when I am reloading them.

 

[Cartoons]

I was at MFS, and the guy to my left was way forward in his lane (leaning over the bench, long arms, don't remember) and his brass was getting ejected right onto me. I waited until he was done with his mag and tapped him on the shoulder and asked him to back up a bit. That's the worst I've noticed so far, but I'm relatively new at this...

 

[n1bsbri]

We're talking about being at the range. And you can't holster a rifle.

You were talking about people carrying loaded guns.

I see zero problem with this. If this bothers you, people carrying guns in general should bother you, because they're all loaded.

But I will add that my personal rule involves people I don't know. If it's someone I trust implicitly (about 2 people), I wouldn't be as worried. But I can't control what other people do.

 

[xtry51]

You were talking about people carrying loaded guns.

Yes, which includes loaded rifles. Which is fine.

 

[Admin]

When people are carrying loaded guns, I expect (demand?) that they keep the ****ing things holstered. When somebody is holding it in his hands, that's a no-go for me, unless he is planning to defend his life, and I would do likewise.

We are talking about the range right? Don't come to my range, it's totally no-go for you.