To The Guy At Westwood with the AR10, NF scope, Loud AF Brake and TSUSA Ammo Box

[Broc]

magnum is needed for SRP, the cci #450, for large it is not advised, i tried both and non-magnum cci #200 was better, lower SD. 2-5 SD is good.
i would not touch neck on fired brass after .001 resize, and using .002 neck shim on a redding die. no chamfer and no expand needed, really, if we still speak of 308/6.5.
just brushing it inside helps, and annealing helps, of course, if you want to go through that hassle.

I full length size .002. I can definitely notice the difference before and after neck expansion. The bullets sit smoother and I get more consistent seating depth.

I always seat them long because for some damn reason, even though I use a Wilson die with Arbor press, I always get a difference of 0.002. I was told that is most likely due to neck tension. That is when I started expanding the necks. So after seating all bullets I measure, adjust the die and seat them again.

 

[Agnotology]

SD? Standard deviation?

 

[Broc]

SD? Standard deviation?

Yes

 

[LuvDog]

If you shoot it enough times, the groups get tighter.

Has potential.

View attachment 846771

Tikka?

 

[paul73]

even though I use a Wilson die with Arbor press, I always get a difference of 0.002

it can only be possible if all your brass is of the same brand with same exact thickness, which is never true in a common mixed brass scenario.
the mix i have differs up to .004 in thickness as you measure it with a bullet seated in. that requires different shims to be used for different brass.

 

[Mudflap621]

I saw no difference between LR and LRM.
And I have tried it in several caliber, no difference.

I already go as far as lubing the bullets with dry lube and expanding the necks to .2635.

I also gave up on cleaning brass, only clean the primer hole. I was actually getting slightly better groups out of once fired dirty brass than once fired clean brass.

So my prep now is:
Full size
Trim
Chamfer
Clean primer hole
Prime
Expand neck

You prime before you mandrel?

 

[Mudflap621]

I full length size .002. I can definitely notice the difference before and after neck expansion. The bullets sit smoother and I get more consistent seating depth.

I always seat them long because for some damn reason, even though I use a Wilson die with Arbor press, I always get a difference of 0.002. I was told that is most likely due to neck tension. That is when I started expanding the necks. So after seating all bullets I measure, adjust the die and seat them again.

Are you measuring BTO or COAL. Depending on the bullet I've seen quite a big variance in the projectiles themselves. .002" difference shouldn't shoot any different though if you've picked a forgiving spot.

 

[Broc]

it can only be possible if all your brass is of the same brand with same exact thickness, which is never true in a common mixed brass scenario.
the mix i have differs up to .004 in thickness as you measure it with a bullet seated in. that requires different shims to be used for different brass.

Mine is all Peterson, fired the same amount of times. I keep the brass together and won't reload one until I fired all the reloaded cases.

 

[Broc]

Are you measuring BTO or COAL. Depending on the bullet I've seen quite a big variance in the projectiles themselves. .002" difference shouldn't shoot any different though if you've picked a forgiving spot.

You are correct, 0.002 doesn't make a difference. But I want them to be perfect.

I used to measure BTO (I still do when working a new load), but after the load was worked I measure OAL. My thought process is, if the ogive is off in some, then it will mess with the OAL giving me inconsistencies.

Maybe I am thinking about it the wrong way.

 

[chris_1001]

Bro, I needed that target for customer service. Just waiting on my new match grade barrel.

THIS ^

Dude (@Broc), you should have asked for one of his targets for me...

 

[Broc]

You prime before you mandrel?

yes. It doesnt make a didfference. I have primed before trimming. It doesn't really matter. The cases are facing down when I trim.

 

[Broc]

THIS ^

Dude (@Broc), you should have asked for one of his targets for me...

They are still at the club, go get it.

 

[Broc]

Tikka?

Yes. Tikka ruined me, I don't want to shoot any other rifles now.

 

[Mudflap621]

You are correct, 0.002 doesn't make a difference. But I want them to be perfect.

I used to measure BTO (I still do when working a new load), but after the load was worked I measure OAL. My thought process is, if the ogive is off in some, then it will mess with the OAL giving me inconsistencies.

Maybe I am thinking about it the wrong way.

Your BTO measurement is more important than COAL. You want a consistent jump to where the bullet contacts the rifling. You will also see more consistent measurements going to the ogive.

This is second hand info but did read of an individual having issues with primers backing out while mandreling the necks due to pressure buildup in the case.

 

[Broc]

Your BTO measurement is more important than COAL. You want a consistent jump to where the bullet contacts the rifling. You will also see more consistent measurements going to the ogive.

This is second hand info but did read of an individual having issues with primers backing out while mandreling the necks due to pressure buildup in the case.

next batch I will try a few things.
1. BTO with Large primers
2. OAL with Large primers
3. #1 with magnum primers
4. #2 with magnum primers

10 of each. See how they do at 100 and 300.

 

[1919FAN]

Broc severe agitation issues are often caused by low estrogen issues. Look at what happened to Spangler.

 

[Broc]

Broc severe agitation issues are often caused by low estrogen issues. Look at what happened to Spangler.

It is the lack of Copicut SC matches.

 

[LT5]

@Broc

“This sh*t is too funny. I can't make it past page 1. I love how @Boghog1 totally called it on his first quote.
Good Sunday morning fun before hitting the range.”

Boy………….. if you only knew then what you know now……….

 

[Mudflap621]

next batch I will try a few things.
1. BTO with Large primers
2. OAL with Large primers
3. #1 with magnum primers
4. #2 with magnum primers

10 of each. See how they do at 100 and 300

Just take some bullets and measure them first with the ogive comparator than compare that to their OAL. You should find the measurement to the ogive more consistent than the OAL of the bullet.

The only time OAL is necessary is to make sure a cartridge will fit mag restraints. Everything else CBTO.

 

[Mudflap621]

I just measured 10 Berger 108 elite hunters. As you can see the BTO are very consistent while the OAL is not.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Hasn’t anyone explained to you guys yet that reloading SUCKS!

 

[CMEBoston]

Hasn’t anyone explained to you guys yet that reloading SUCKS!

Excuse me we call it “hand loading”

 

[Mudflap621]

Hasn’t anyone explained to you guys yet that reloading SUCKS!

It does but when you find me some factory 6BRA ammo that shoots like this I’ll stop.

 

[71montess]

Jezus Broc, it's intimidating shooting next to a guy who hits X all the time. That's why I ring the steel plates unless I'm alone !

 

[In God We Trust]

groups are for larpers. I keyhole at 100 with irons. Maybe not quite keyhole but the holes touch. There is a joke there somewhere, but I can’t find it.

 

[Tartakovsky]

Actually, I don't know what caliber he was shooting, that is why I didnt mention it on the OP. An AR10 lower can shoot 6.5 Brocmoor.

His brass looked like 308, but I didn't pick one up to check.

Blew all his money on the rifle and glass, can’t afford decent ammo, and the optic isn’t properly mounted or torqued. No one is that bad a shot at 50 yards unless legally blind.

 

[Mudflap621]

Blew all his money on the rifle and glass, can’t afford decent ammo, and the optic isn’t properly mounted or torqued. No one is that bad a shot at 50 yards unless legally blind.

Prolly needed a bigger scope is all.

 

[spt_1955]

a combined 50/100 sucks, as it mixes wrong crowds. harvard is smarter with a 25/50 and separate 100 and then separate 200/300.

i did not see any real difference in SRP vs LRP, with the same exact brass and powder load. most SD diff comes from the neck tension uniformity.
if you do not have it yet and want to be masochistic - this may help:

Brass Prep Station | Prepper Brass For Better Reloads - LoadDevelopment.com

Prepping brass correctly, before starting your reloading process, can mean the difference between consistent accurate ammo, or junk ammo resulting in large groups. A brass prep station is a reloading tool that helps clean and prepare brass cases for reloading. It can remove dirt, debris, and...

www.loaddevelopment.com

but i refuse to brush the neck inside for a 100-300 rds batch.

So you did not see any difference between SRP and LRP with the exact same brass???

 

[Fixxah]

If you shoot it enough times, the groups get tighter.

Has potential.

View attachment 846771

Ooh, I think my pants just got tighter.

 

[CATI]

OP wrote this when he got home.

Firing an AR-15-style rifle can be a deeply traumatic experience, according to a New York-based journalist who said his recent experience with the popular rifle left him with post-traumatic stress disorder.

“It feels like a bazooka — and sounds like a cannon,” the New York Daily News’ Gersh Kuntzman said in an article published Tuesday. “The explosions — loud like a bomb — gave me a temporary case of PTSD. For at least an hour after firing the gun just a few times, I was anxious and irritable.”

The Daily News column, titled “What is it like to fire an AR-15? It’s horrifying, dangerous and very very loud,” comes just days after a gunman, 29-year-old Omar Mateen, shot and killed 49 people at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Fla.

Mateen was armed with a handgun and a Sig Sauer MCX rifle, which fires a 5.56 NATO. Though the Sig looks much like an AR-15, it is in a different class of rifle altogether.

Kuntzman explained he wanted to figure out what it is about semi-automatic rifles like the one used by Mateen that appeals to gun owners, and said he hoped his experience would shed light on the matter.

However, he added, his quest left him not so much enlightened as it left him with emotional scars.

“I’ve shot pistols before, but never something like an AR-15. Squeeze lightly on the trigger and the resulting explosion of firepower is humbling and deafening (even with ear protection),” the journalist wrote.

“The recoil bruised my shoulder. The brass shell casings disoriented me as they flew past my face. The smell of sulfur and destruction made me sick,” he added.

Kuntzman wrote, “Even in semi-automatic mode, it is very simple to squeeze off two dozen rounds before you even know what has happened. In fully automatic mode, it doesn’t take any imagination to see dozens of bodies falling in front of your barrel. All it takes is the will to do it. Forty-nine people can be gone in 60 seconds.”

AR-15s are semi-automatic, as are rifles like the Sig used by Mateen.

“Fully automatic” rifles are generally illegal for sale to the public, and they can be purchased only after a series of stringent criteria are met, including multiple background checks.

Asked to clarify whether he had shot a fully automatic rifle or a modified version of a commercial AR-15-style rifle, Kuntzman told the Washington Examiner’s media desk that he had not.

“I did not fire it in fully auto mode,” he said, explaining that he meant to suggest that a rifle like the one used in Orlando would be even more dangerous were it an automatic. “I did not have one. But they exist.”