DSA Road Trip

[ScottS]

Why not? I take that route every year. Smooth sailing.

From Albany to Syracuse (and beyond), you're actually only driving one mile of road. As you pass over it, they quickly remove it from behind you and put it ahead of you. You drive exactly the same mile, over and over and over again.

 

[Rat187]

"Follow I90 until around Gary, IN, where I'll probably turn on the GPS for DSA and head straight for DSA. Looks like there's a series of ring highways around Chicago"

Don't take a wrong turn in Gary,Indiana ! Even on the job firefighters all carried 'heat' and getting shot at was part of the job description.

 

[PatMcD]

From Albany to Syracuse (and beyond), you're actually only driving one mile of road. As you pass over it, they quickly remove it from behind you and put it ahead of you. You drive exactly the same mile, over and over and over again.

It IS boring.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

Got the carbine and its sweeeet. Going to eat lunch then head home. More details to follow. Here's what DSA's Pro Shop looks like. I also handled a folding stock Para DSA and a Zastava M91.

 

[enbloc]

My pants got tight...

 

[Picton]

Why not? I take that route every year. Smooth sailing.

I'm from out west. I hate the concept of toll roads.

I'll pay a toll for a road that works perfectly, flows smoothly, and offers a clear benefit over alternative routes. Most of them don't do any of those things. I hate feeling imprisoned on the road in New York and New Jersey, especially when there are alternatives I can take. I realize there aren't always alternate routes, depending on your destination.

Love those pics, @C. Stockwell!

 

[Deleted member 67409]

Made it home!

 

[Deleted member 67409]

I'll post up the deets if you all want once I have the carbine in my hands.

We Want...

Ye asked, therefore, ye shall receive. I'm going to break this down into three parts. (1) The gun; (2) DSA; and (3) the road trip.

(1) The Gun

*Upper: Type 1 DSA LMT-era upper, "DS-prefix", this one is DS278XX, the seller said this was stripped out of a StG58 clone and I bought it as a stripped receiver
*Barrel: DSA 16" and fluted
*Muzzle device: Precision Armament M4-72
*Gas system: DSA short-length gas tube and piston
*Handguards: DSA quad-rail short-length
*Bolt and bolt carrier: original FN bolt, DSA sand-cut Para bolt carrier
*Lower: DSA Para lower + various other parts such as an extended safety, ambi mag release, aluminium trigger guard, M249 grip, and various other bells and whistles
*Trigger: DSA offers a match-grade trigger and I'd estimate this to be around 3-4lbs with very little, if any, creep
*Dust cover: DSA Para standard-length railed
*Stock: FAB Defense collapsible, came with a cheek riser, which I'll be adding in good time
*Sights: Dutch-pattern rear aperture, KNS Duplex Crosshair fronts
*Finish: Duracoat, green for the furniture, black for the rest

I really like the extended safety, ambi mag release, short barrel, stock, and trigger. Those, I am a big fan of and very glad I sprung for. The gun overall handles extremely well and I think this gun weighs around 7lbs. I'll have to weigh it, but its damned light. This would be an awesome gun to walk around the woods or jungle or brush with in terms of handling.

There's three areas of experimentation:

One, I like the sight picture but I haven't had the chance to try out the KNS fronts before. The front sight might become a traditional post if I find the sight picture too "busy." I grew up shooting Wal Mart-quality package deal scopes, so for me, a crosshair is what I'm used to. I'm going to test those out by seeing how hard it is to hit clay pigeons at various distances. If I like the sights, perfect. If not, oh well, I'll sell them or keep them for another project.

Two, the muzzle device. I've shot a guy's 3-gun competition AR before with the .223 version of the M4-72. The gun didn't move. When I watched videos of the M4-72s, the guns didn't move. These are supposed to be great for recoil reduction, which I know is going to be a concern with a lightweight 16" baby FAL. However, if each shot looks like Hiroshima-levels of muzzle blast and other shooters are left rolling around on the deck in the fetal position, then I'll probably try a flash suppressor. With the FAL having adjustable gas, I can tinker with the recoil levels.

Three, I may add a vertical foregip or an angled foregrip if I find the pic-rails to be painful and hot while shooting. The main reason I went with the pic-rail handguards was to be able to easily accept a bipod, which I have for this gun. But I need to see if I need something for when I'm shooting off-hand.

Other than that, this gun's awesome and ready to go. I need to clean it today and I'll probably shoot it next week. I need to buy a case (or two, or eight) of either M80 or L2A2. I bought a Xage pic-rail QD front sling swivel last night while in the passenger seat.

Optics, you say? What about optics? Well, wait and see

(2) DSA

Ok, so first question, was it worth it to go out there? Yes. For one, DSA's counter guys were probably the nicest gun salesmen I've met. DSA does work for locals in the area, like one guy had his Browning Hi Power worked on, and they were equally friendly and cordial to other customers too. The shop's the right size where you're not hanging around wasting time while one salesman has to serve a dozen window shoppers.

Two, the shop had enough variety to keep me entertained. DSA's shop has a wide variety of guns but obviously specializes in SA58s (I didn't see any non-DSA FALs, but I wasn't able to touch and examine every receiver in the shop) and their line of AR15s. The shop primarily caters to MSRs and their own guns. I don't recall seeing that many C&R guns, however, that's not where they make their money. A lot of people rightly complain that DSA guns are unobtanium. If you absolutely want one, go to DSA's Pro Shop and they'll hook you up with pretty much any SA58 you want right there in the shop. If you understandably don't want to drive sixteen hours, call the Pro Shop or send them a message on social media to get a gun shipped to your local FFL provided such guns are legal where you live. DSA has enough SA58s in the Pro Shop if you can't find one locally.

Three, DSA builds guns to order upon request. If you want one of their Paras but with an extended safety, call them. If you want a parts kit turned into a completed gun, call them. If you want a gun completely built from the ground up, call them. If you can't find one of their uppers in stock anywhere, which happens quite a lot, call them, because their gunsmiths get first crack at any new receivers that DSA produces. If you put in a shop order, you can get pretty much anything you want. My suggestion is to source the non-DSA parts and any DSA parts you can get for a good price.

Now, I can't really give DSA a full pass here until I shoot the gun for awhile, but as the gun is now, I'm glad I had this gun built-to-order. Also, bear in mind that DSA is a very small shop and doesn't do optics mounting or fitting. DSA's operation is one small, blue warehouse in an industrial park in suburban Lake County, IL. DSA has an indoor 27m test firing range. Once you go and see how small DSA is, why they can't keep up with demand for receivers and guns is understandable.

(3) The Road Trip

This trip was probably tied with the furthest west I've ever traveled by car. I've flown out to Phoenix. However, this was a far drive and is probably tied for how far west I went by car with when I attended the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa. I had never been to the Chicagoland area before. So, some of this trip was to go for the sake of going.

My favorite states were RI because there's no place like home and probably PA as second. Least favorites were NY and IN. IL is ok, but I wouldn't want to live there. If you ask to handle a gun, a salesman is going to ask to see your IL FID. I obviously don't have one because I'm from RI. This wasn't a problem when I visited DSA because the head salesman told the guys "He's good!" when I asked to check out guns. But going into a random gun shop in IL might be a problem for customers who aren't "known" to the shop.

For example, I went to the nearby Hoffman Estates Cabela's just to kill time before DSA opened up and I didn't even bother asking to see any guns. I just went straight to the racks and their gun library. The Hoffman Estates Cabela's is like the one in Hudson in terms of what's available. The one in Maine is the best I've been to (CT, Mass, IL, ME, MI).

Curiously, the Cabela's had a Century C308 on a rack, which I handled and liked. I had handled like two or three PTR-91s one time I visited the Maine Cabela's and the things handled like awkward clubs. The C308 was pretty nice. I might buy one and paint it with baby poop Rhodie paint some day.

Besides the C308, I also really liked the DSA SA58 Para folder. Some of the best ergonomics on a rifle I've ever handled. Very natural cheek weld, which was what I was concerned about with a folder. Much nicer than an AK folder. So a folding stock Para FAL is now on my list.

I can't comment on food besides that Quizno's still exists out there. This was literally a straight-out, straight-back trip with no sightseeing or culture or cuisine. The Quizno's was fine

...

So yeah, I had fun.

 

[enbloc]

Great thread! Thanks!
~Enbloc

 

[ScottS]

That short gas system just screams to be SBR'd.

Nice rifle.

 

[enbloc]

So can a licensed Mass Resident, just passing through town, pick one up in Illinois?

 

[Deleted member 67409]

That short gas system just screams to be SBR'd.

Nice rifle.

Yeah, DSA makes a bunch of 11", 13", maybe even 8" guns with the short gas system + pistol braces and those are 100% SBR hosts. Though, being from RI, NFA items don't exist here because we have a state ban.

If you want such a SBR though, the short gas system's the way to go.

So can a licensed Mass Resident, just passing through town, pick one up in Illinois?

My bet's no. They don't make Mass-compliant guns AFAIK. You're better off sending a receiver that you already own to them and picking that one up.

 

[daekken]

So can a licensed Mass Resident, just passing through town, pick one up in Illinois?

FALs are banned by name in MA, so they'd be under Maura's edict if the selling FFL were to follow it (or your local FFL if you tried to have it mailed in). So step one would be to make sure DSA doesn't obey Healey.

DSA used to make CA compliant ones, so if you had them build for you, you could see about getting a neutered one custom ordered (I don't think they normally build them anymore).

At the very least, you'd be waiting three days as well:
Waiting Period & Background Check: Illinois law requires a 72 hour waiting period for long guns and handguns, provided that your background check has been approved.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

Shot the gun's first 180 rounds today with no issues. Sights, comp, and handguard worked out great. The gun recoils gently, sort of like a gamer AR. I'm a happy customer!

Fun fact, the collapsible stock also folds and the gun can be shot with the stock folded.

 

[SKumar]

Great setup! I love the Fab defense stock (I have an AR with a matching stock+grip). Also, I put a crosshair front sight on mine too. It's like we're brothers from another mother

Now get yourself some proper attire

 

[Deleted member 67409]

Great setup! I love the Fab defense stock (I have an AR with a matching stock+grip). Also, I put a crosshair front sight on mine too. It's like we're brothers from another mother

Now get yourself some proper attire
View attachment 337273

I do in fact own a pair of the short shorts, didn't wear them today because I shot some using my bipod in icy slush

 

[Deleted member 67409]

One final followup:

First, this gun's official nickname is "Baby Yoda." I got the idea the morning after arriving back home with the gun from IL. The gun's small, green, and adorable. Just like Baby Yoda. Name seems appropriate considering this thing's got the firepower of an untrained member of Yoda's species

Second, the compensator leaves an intriguing crop circle-like pattern on the ground when the gun is shot prone with the bipod. Sand, ice, snow, doesn't matter. Baby Yoda emits a lot of muzzle blast. That being said, the comp works exceedingly well at mitigating recoil. The comp, stock, and adjustable gas setting make the recoil feel like shooting a fat AR.

Third, speaking of the bipod, my one quibble about this gun is that the bipod is too short for prone shooting, really. The bipod works fine if the shooter scrunches up on the gun and finagles it onto the target. The bipod really needs a few more inches to comfortably prone out with. For now, this isn't a major problem, and the gun industry's going through frenzy buying, so I'll probably get another Atlas with longer bipod legs once things settle down. I like the Atlas design, it being very user-friendly. I just need longer bipod legs. In the mean time, I'll ID an Atlas that has more than 12" of height range and QD pic-rail mounts.

Fourth and finally, I scoped Baby Yoda. I added a Kahles K16i 1-6x24 with 3GR reticle via a Spuhr QDP-3006. I am very happy with this setup. Mounted the scope today and sighted the scope in at approximately 25 yards at a range near a friend's place in NH. I'm going to get around to doing sighting in at 100 and 300 once the plague subsides - just wanted to make sure everything worked properly today. The Spuhr mount is idiot-proof as long as you read the instructions and the Kahles is simply the nicest piece of glass I've ever seen. When I bought the Kahles, I compared it against a similar Trijicon and Vortex. No comparison, the Kahles was the best. I also got a very reasonable price, so, I truly can't complain. The Spuhr was likewise on sale from Brownell's. The phrase "one ragged hole" came up multiple times today. Sight-in was pretty straightforward and I look forward to stretching this gun and optic's legs at distance.

So, except for doing more sighting in and probably swapping out the bipod in the future, I'm very happy with Baby Yoda.

 

[KMM696]

Thanks for showing us all this - it reminds me of how long it's been since I had mine out at the range. In what turned out to be my longest running successful gun project ever, I built an STG-58 parts kit on an Imbel. Found one of the TriLux sights for it, too. I like what you've done with that one.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

Thanks for showing us all this - it reminds me of how long it's been since I had mine out at the range. In what turned out to be my longest running successful gun project ever, I built an STG-58 parts kit on an Imbel. Found one of the TriLux sights for it, too. I like what you've done with that one.

FALs are fun. This is my second DSA SA58. I've got a third build started and I'm debating what a fourth build would be. No. 3 is going to be a R1 Para. For No. 4, I'm debating between building a StG 58 or Dutch FAL or buying a real semi-auto FN or Browning FAL or maybe going fully nuts and saving up for an original full-auto. A full-auto would have to wait until I move out of RI.

 

[Picton]

Lol. You’ve got it BAD.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

Lol. You’ve got it BAD.

Yes

My local FFL has a real FN FAL in semi-auto, one of the ones marked ".308 Match." Probably imported by Browning but I didn't see a Browning rollmark, just FN. Browning long flash suppressor, looked like a G-series. He wants $6500. There's no way I can buy that currently but that gun was one of the few times where meeting your hero was an awesome experience. I'm guessing that's going to sit for awhile, so I might snag that after I sit for the bar in July.

My goal is four FALs or receivers in my possession by this upcoming election. I currently have three, two completed guns and one upper. Or to have saved up a decent chunk of cash for a real FN.

 

[SKumar]

Just finished the last touch on this baby last night. I’ll take better pics when I get home.

WHOEVER SAYS FALS ARE SIMPLE GUNS ARE SMOKING CRACK

It all started with a preban Century Arms 308 sporter L1A1. Everything stripped except the serialized upper, BCG, and 21” barrel.

I exclusively used DSA parts for everything else/
-trigger assembly
-lower receiver
-para side-folding buttstock
-crosshair front sight and adjustable aperture rear
-fab defense grip
-got barrel threaded and muzzle brake professionally welded
-mlok aluminum handguard
-DSA railed dust cover
-aftermarket springs for trigger assembly
-I kept the metal folding charging handle and takedown lever stock

but I’ll tell you, the FAL is really an excellent rifle. This thing is solidly built. Nothing is plastic except the grip.
Looking forward to turning this into a long-distance iron sight gun (might scope further down the road).

VERY EXPENSIVE TO BUILD. I went through turmoil thinking if I should liquidate the gun since I kept dumping money into the build.

As far as shooting it: VERY soft shooting gun! I think this is partly due to bulky parts, minimal mass on the BCG, and adjustable piston gas system.

the trigger is great! I’d say it’s 7-8lb pull, but it breaks very cleanly! There is barely any creep, but once the threshold is met, is breaks nicely. Maybe the sear could use polishing but definitely not urgent.

So am I officially part of the FAL family?? @C. Stockwell

 

[daekken]

My second receiver is collecting dust right now...

 

[Picton]

Just finished the last touch on this baby last night. I’ll take better pics when I get home.

WHOEVER SAYS FALS ARE SIMPLE GUNS ARE SMOKING CRACK

It all started with a preban Century Arms 308 sporter L1A1. Everything stripped except the serialized upper, BCG, and 21” barrel.

I exclusively used DSA parts for everything else/
-trigger assembly
-lower receiver
-para side-folding buttstock
-crosshair front sight and adjustable aperture rear
-fab defense grip
-got barrel threaded and muzzle brake professionally welded
-mlok aluminum handguard
-DSA railed dust cover
-aftermarket springs for trigger assembly
-I kept the metal folding charging handle and takedown lever stock

but I’ll tell you, the FAL is really an excellent rifle. This thing is solidly built. Nothing is plastic except the grip.
Looking forward to turning this into a long-distance iron sight gun (might scope further down the road).

VERY EXPENSIVE TO BUILD. I went through turmoil thinking if I should liquidate the gun since I kept dumping money into the build.

As far as shooting it: VERY soft shooting gun! I think this is partly due to bulky parts, minimal mass on the BCG, and adjustable piston gas system.

the trigger is great! I’d say it’s 7-8lb pull, but it breaks very cleanly! There is barely any creep, but once the threshold is met, is breaks nicely. Maybe the sear could use polishing but definitely not urgent.

So am I officially part of the FAL family?? @C. Stockwell


View attachment 341708

Looking good!

Mine, too, is built on a CAI L1A1 lower. Mine’s a Hesse, but I haven’t had any of the problems you sometimes hear about.

Mine’s configured the usual way, though. I’ve got no use for optics or lights. I have a hard enough time with what’s on there already...

 

[Deleted member 67409]

WHOEVER SAYS FALS ARE SIMPLE GUNS ARE SMOKING CRACK

...

Looking forward to turning this into a long-distance iron sight gun (might scope further down the road).

...

VERY EXPENSIVE TO BUILD. I went through turmoil thinking if I should liquidate the gun since I kept dumping money into the build.

...

So am I officially part of the FAL family?? @C. Stockwell

Welcome to the cult, er, family

FALs are simple guns to take care of and live with, except for dialing in the gas (which is conceptually simple), but to build? Not simple. I was PM'ing @daekken this morning about this topic and I think the FAL is the last grand dame of old school gun building. A final ode to wood, steel, forgings, quality machining, and aesthetic beauty. The last gun before modern technology and production methods made guns like the AR-15 radically change the market.

How much do you estimate that to weigh? With a Para, I love my Kahles K16i. I'd suggest a RDS that achieves co-witness easily, like something small like a RMR or a Kahles Helia RD, maybe an Aimpoint Acro if you're willing to deal with the short battery life, or a 1-4 to a 1-8. Maybe a fixed 2.5x to 4x if you're cool with something like an ACOG or a fixed scope.

With Paras, my philosophy is that the gun's intended to be used by a guy jumping into a hostile environment and engaging in a lot of CQC to seize strategic keypoints. Not really sniping off distant targets. That and Paras have great handling and don't weigh a lot. A heavy, big scope could ruin that. Unless you're spending the coin to get something like a super short or compact 3-18, 3-20.

 

[KMM696]

I mentioned it somewhere up above - here's my STG-58 clone. I put an STG-58 parts kit on an Imbel upper, at some point I found an Israeli Trilux scope and mount for it. It could use a little cleanup work on the stock and grip. At some point trying to figure out why it wouldn't run became more important. One brand new gas system later, it works.



It was quite disappointed to end up back in the safe - poor little thing thought we were going shooting. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

I mentioned it somewhere up above - here's my STG-58 clone. I put an STG-58 parts kit on an Imbel upper, at some point I found an Israeli Trilux scope and mount for it. It could use a little cleanup work on the stock and grip. At some point trying to figure out why it wouldn't run became more important. One brand new gas system later, it works.

It was quite disappointed to end up back in the safe - poor little thing thought we were going shooting. Maybe tomorrow.

Nah, looks just fine. FALs look best with signs of use. A FAL that sees use is a happy FAL.

 

[SKumar]

Nah, looks just fine. FALs look best with signs of use. A FAL that sees use is a happy FAL.

I agree. A "clean FAL" looks weird to me. Minor wear marks on the side gives it so much character, like a real war battle rifle.

Mine's "tacti-cool", but definitely not a collectors piece.

 

[Picton]

“Tacti-cool,” on a FAL, means removing the carry handle.

Rifle is fine.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

“Tacti-cool,” on a FAL, means removing the carry handle.

Rifle is fine.

Psssh, just get a non-carry handle cut upper. I'm not a fan of the carry handle.