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Drawing Attention Away From Your Concealed Carry Gun
- Thread starter jeffwatch
- Start date
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
You’ll have to forgive me, but when people start using terms like “apex predator”, my eyes roll so hard that I have a hard time getting them back down to focus on anything other than extreme sarcasm.
I consider the two cretins from the 1986 Miami FBI shootout to be “apex predators”. They were special forces veterans from the Vietnam War. In that terrible incident, two agents were killed and five other agents were wounded.
I think it is pretty easy for someone to talk about training to deal with such types. I think it is far harder for anyone to actually survive a violent encounter with such types, and I doubt my clothing choice would have much impact on the outcome.
YMMV.
I consider the two cretins from the 1986 Miami FBI shootout to be “apex predators”. They were special forces veterans from the Vietnam War. In that terrible incident, two agents were killed and five other agents were wounded.
I think it is pretty easy for someone to talk about training to deal with such types. I think it is far harder for anyone to actually survive a violent encounter with such types, and I doubt my clothing choice would have much impact on the outcome.
YMMV.
Yes, correct, pretty much anything can be used against you in some way. But if you are getting into a physical conflict a hoodie is probably THE worst thing you can be wearing. That being said, I love hoodies, and I wear them frequently.
fencer
NES Member
I mean no disrespect to anyone. But I think people have way to much faith and confidence as a result of "training". Yes - training is a good thing, and a person can see a lot of improvement on an individual level. But..
I got my first blackbelt at 16 and have been in more than a few scrapes, and it is my experience that success in combat/fighting is more about a state of mind than anything else. I have seen a black belt that studied for years get laid out by a pissed of farm boy who was half his size, but twice as pissed. I watched Butterbean trash a totally buff, well trained fighter, because he could take a punch and was willing to keep swatting while soaking up brutal punch after punch.
My brother grew up in Southie, joined the Marines and went to Nam in 67. He never had any formal training, smoked 2 packs of Camels a day, and was 5'9". When he was 40 he was arrested and charged/convicted of mayhem. He was in a bar in Randolph when some guy grabbed his wife's ass when she was coming out of the bathroom. The guy was with two friends. In 30 seconds, my brother ripped an ear ring out of one guys ear, tore open one guys nose by putting his finger up his nose and tearing his nostril apart, and drove his thumb into the last guys eyeball until it burst. All before they could be broken up. The guy lost his eye. One of the guys was a karate instructor and had more black belts than the men's department at Jordan Marsh. My brother did 18 months in Concord because the judge was lenient. Was on parole- probation for years. His lawyer told him the eyeball thing, and a prior from years before, really did him in, even though he had a bronze star and two purple hearts from Nam.
So, respectfully, hoodies, black belts, holsters, training etc. really don't matter. It's what's between your ears that matters. And what you are willing to do. If the fat guy decides to go Hannibal Lecter on you, a well practiced hard block ain't gonna cut it.
I got my first blackbelt at 16 and have been in more than a few scrapes, and it is my experience that success in combat/fighting is more about a state of mind than anything else. I have seen a black belt that studied for years get laid out by a pissed of farm boy who was half his size, but twice as pissed. I watched Butterbean trash a totally buff, well trained fighter, because he could take a punch and was willing to keep swatting while soaking up brutal punch after punch.
My brother grew up in Southie, joined the Marines and went to Nam in 67. He never had any formal training, smoked 2 packs of Camels a day, and was 5'9". When he was 40 he was arrested and charged/convicted of mayhem. He was in a bar in Randolph when some guy grabbed his wife's ass when she was coming out of the bathroom. The guy was with two friends. In 30 seconds, my brother ripped an ear ring out of one guys ear, tore open one guys nose by putting his finger up his nose and tearing his nostril apart, and drove his thumb into the last guys eyeball until it burst. All before they could be broken up. The guy lost his eye. One of the guys was a karate instructor and had more black belts than the men's department at Jordan Marsh. My brother did 18 months in Concord because the judge was lenient. Was on parole- probation for years. His lawyer told him the eyeball thing, and a prior from years before, really did him in, even though he had a bronze star and two purple hearts from Nam.
So, respectfully, hoodies, black belts, holsters, training etc. really don't matter. It's what's between your ears that matters. And what you are willing to do. If the fat guy decides to go Hannibal Lecter on you, a well practiced hard block ain't gonna cut it.
Keister carry or was that her?
To the OP:
Well thought out post, but perhaps a little over-cooked. I'm in the school of don't worry about it too much. I generally appendix carry a Sig P220 Compact. Might be pointing towards my junk but de-cocked I don't worry about it. For striker fired, I'm one of those often flamed nothing in the pipe carriers. Anyway, given that I typically IWB carry, my friends who know I carry are usually surprised if I pull out the P220C for a few rounds at the range. IWB + loose T-shirt and you are good to go.
Agreed on all counts. Spent a number of years training in karate & Gracie BJJ as a black belt (karate, not BJJ) and DGAF goes a long way in a fight. IMHO, training is a huge plus in managing a given situation, but to do real damage you have to be extremely motivated and willing to go beyond any sensible restraint.
We had Friday lunch sparring for years. Only rule was it's OK to hurt someone but if you injure someone (i.e. break / rip something) you're out. I almost hated sparring with a Marine friend of mine because I was on the razor's edge of forcing me to break the rules before he would tap out. Actually I ripped his thumb tendons once before he tapped out but he didn't make a federal case of it and we carried on. Even when it was supposed to just be fun that everyone can walk away from, he pushed it to a ridiculous level. If he had you beat, you better tap out or something of yours was definitely going to break. You don't want to be in a real fight with a guy like that. If you have no other choice, you better be prepared to go to the extreme like your brother was willing to do.
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There have been multiple cases of matchups between trained MMA fighters or boxers and traditional Japanese or Chinese martial artists. One promoter in China faced scorn for injuring the reputation of Chinese culture by setting up a fight in which a well known martial artist was beat. Floyd Mayweather won against a noted Japanese kickboxer/karate expert (Nasukawa) who claimed to have a punch that "boxers just don't have".
There is a mystical aura around martial arts that leads practitioners of any style to believe their master is invincible. Going up against the speed and technique of a trained boxer is a tough nut for any Karate/Kung Fu/Sinanju master to crack. Try some of those "block the punch and do this" martial arts moves against such an opponent and you don't have a chance.
Look at the data, not claims based out of loyalty and an almost religious belief in a style.
There is a mystical aura around martial arts that leads practitioners of any style to believe their master is invincible. Going up against the speed and technique of a trained boxer is a tough nut for any Karate/Kung Fu/Sinanju master to crack. Try some of those "block the punch and do this" martial arts moves against such an opponent and you don't have a chance.
Look at the data, not claims based out of loyalty and an almost religious belief in a style.
Drawing attention away from yourself as M1911 stated is all about not being in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people. I’ve been there so many times in my youth that I wisened up after some trouble, violence, and death.
I like being a Joe Schmo. I carry 4’o clock and with a good holster I never fondle it. If I was in a certain line of work like an undercover leo then by God I would have to think differently. Most likely though we all appear as npc’s out on the streets, in the stores, in our workplaces, and at home. I’ve only been outed once and that’s when my oldest daughter gave me a hug and grabbed it! Kahr CM9 in a Foxx holster so well secured.
I love that there are so many ccw’s out there. I remember a video from Police Activity where an active shooter was taken down by 3 ccw Schmo’s at a Chipotle in Texas I believe. Guns were all over the ground and at least 4 dudes proned out with a contingency of like 4 departments. Lol!
I like being a Joe Schmo. I carry 4’o clock and with a good holster I never fondle it. If I was in a certain line of work like an undercover leo then by God I would have to think differently. Most likely though we all appear as npc’s out on the streets, in the stores, in our workplaces, and at home. I’ve only been outed once and that’s when my oldest daughter gave me a hug and grabbed it! Kahr CM9 in a Foxx holster so well secured.
I love that there are so many ccw’s out there. I remember a video from Police Activity where an active shooter was taken down by 3 ccw Schmo’s at a Chipotle in Texas I believe. Guns were all over the ground and at least 4 dudes proned out with a contingency of like 4 departments. Lol!
Buck F
NES Member
A couple of weeks ago we were training on elbow strikes at Krav Maga, the instructor was stating how much more powerful an elbow strike can be than a hand strike. One of the black belts, a corrections officer no one would ever want to mess with - big, strong, tough, said he landed an elbow strike on an inmate as perfect and flush as one can land an elbow strike, and the guy kept coming at him as though nothing happened. No matter how proficient you are, there's more to it than technique and strength and there's always someone out there bigger, badder and crazier than you. Same goes for carry. The thing I like about Krav is that it's all about self defense, no rules other than to get you out safe. Groin kicks, eye gouges & generally any other rip/shred destroy body part activities are encouraged. They stress situational awareness, teach avoidance whenever possible but if comes, to it you commit with overwhelming brutality and force until you have stopped the threat or you can safely retreat. They're also big carry proponents. You hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
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Wondering just what he hit with that elbow. A good elbow strike can break stuff. Wouldn't want to catch one in the face, jaw, or ribs.
Regarding CC- In Massachusetts don't draw unless you have to shoot. Don't shoot unless it's necessary to and you intend to kill. Then make sure you do. I doubt anyone on this forum has had to do that in their personal life, so we are nearly 100% talking out of our asses. Some may have had to do this at work if mil or LEO.
Must have landed it just above or behind the temple. If right on the temple, would have been lights out. In front of the temple probably would have broken the cheek bone- but that might have just pissed off a guy like the one on the receiving end.
AHM
NES Member
Good points, but the mil/LEO-vs-civilian shooter contrast is night and day. Apples to oranges. Authorized vs unauthorized. Encouraged vs barely legal. Validated vs extrajudicial.
I find that SA is important in both contexts. That’s the only similarity. Other than that, my “soldier mindset” of nearly 20 years ago isn’t anything like my massprudent mindset now. In fact, that older mindset could easily lead to actions that would get me prosecuted here. There’s much more to worry about as a civilian carrier, and much more to lose.
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