Defense Distributed Shut Down by DOD

WatchCityCPA said:
From the Forbes article:

"In this case, by contrast, Wilson is literally an arms distributor. "

Oh, really?

How exactly is distributing blueprints equivalent to distributing arms, especially for a primitive design like their pistol?
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That's the easy part:
They can declare things as "munitions" and add them to the list (which is what they are evidently doing as we speak - "making a final determination"). Once your item is on the USML, you are subject to their regulation of distribution.

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chaser001 said:
It's not a perfect plan; just one that worked back then.
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IIRC, public opinion caused them to drop the issue.
 
WatchCityCPA said:
From the Forbes article:

"In this case, by contrast, Wilson is literally an arms distributor. "

Oh, really?

How exactly is distributing blueprints equivalent to distributing arms, especially for a primitive design like their pistol?
Click to expand...

IMO, the printable firearm (or even receiver) is more of a POT/POC (proof of technology/proof of concept) than anything else. It proves that it could be done, IF you really wanted to. IMO, the liberator pistol is more than a little ghetto, and more of a low round count item. Granted, you don't need so much in order to take out someone and grab their EBR.

Of course, I had an earlier mega pack already downloaded, but just grabbed the newer version. I'm more interested in the cad/cam files to make from metal. I still see the 3D printers as not being all that good for these things. At least not with what WE can get for the substrate. I'm sure companies (and governments) can get the stuff needed to do this up right.

I believe it was already mentioned in one of the other threads about the pistol, how you can make a low use count gun out of a 2x4, nail, rubber band, and maybe a small amount of metal. With that being so low a cost (far less than the 3D printer and associated technology items to run it), more people could do it.

BTW, information (which the files are) should be free/available to all. Doesn't mean people will do anything with it, but trying to pull it back is just more proof that things are getting even worse.
 
Golddiggie said:
BTW, information (which the files are) should be free/available to all. Doesn't mean people will do anything with it, but trying to pull it back is just more proof that things are getting even worse.
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That's why I downloaded what I did. I don't intend on buying a printer to make them, but I like knowing that if I wanted to spend the $$$$ on a printer, I could and actually make a mag or Liberator pistol.
 
cekim said:
That's the easy part:
They can declare things as "munitions" and add them to the list (which is what they are evidently doing as we speak - "making a final determination"). Once your item is on the USML, you are subject to their regulation of distribution.

- - - Updated - - -


IIRC, public opinion caused them to drop the issue.
Click to expand...


Things - actual, tangible things, we can argue about.

This is information - it's not a thing.
 
WatchCityCPA said:
Things - actual, tangible things, we can argue about.

This is information - it's not a thing.
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That's a nice thought, hold on to it as long as you can. [wink]

This would not be the first time information was categorized in this manner. The semiconductor industry has long operated within the confines of ITAR regulations.
 
soloman02 said:
That's why I downloaded what I did. I don't intend on buying a printer to make them, but I like knowing that if I wanted to spend the $$$$ on a printer, I could and actually make a mag or Liberator pistol.
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Having the plans/blueprints/files also means you could just bend up some sheet metal if you wanted to. A small (bench-top) tool to do that isn't expensive either. Depending on who you know, you might be able to get metal bent on the cheap (know anyone with a metal shop?). I'd rather make a mag from metal than print it form plastic. It's a personal preference there. I have nothing against PMag's, but I can't see us printing up something of the same level without spending too much cabbage.

I located another site earlier today with tons of files for firearms. Downloaded a bunch that I can't even open yet (igs files).

A friend of mine has a family member with a full CNC machine shop (deeper into NH). He's been trying to get a hold of the guy to set up a time for us to go up there to have some 'fun time' on the machines. [smile]
 
Golddiggie said:
A friend of mine has a family member with a full CNC machine shop (deeper into NH). He's been trying to get a hold of the guy to set up a time for us to go up there to have some 'fun time' on the machines. [smile]
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I won't pretend to know where the edge of the law lies, but make sure you do before you do something like that. As we see with this thread, even if you follow the letter of the law, if you don't leave any margin, the line can move on you...

I'd hate to see a well intentioned shop owner and/or hobbyists strung up charges for manufacturing without a license.
 
cekim said:
That's a nice thought, hold on to it as long as you can. [wink]

This would not be the first time information was categorized in this manner. The semiconductor industry has long operated within the confines of ITAR regulations.
Click to expand...

The more I learn about the legal system, the more things suck. I should know better than to use logic on those matters.
 
Removing stuff from the internet. Right, that'll work. This would be comical if it wasn't for the morons intent on carrying out this removal via whatever means necessary. It's for the children!
 
cekim said:
I won't pretend to know where the edge of the law lies, but make sure you do before you do something like that. As we see with this thread, even if you follow the letter of the law, if you don't leave any margin, the line can move on you...

I'd hate to see a well intentioned shop owner and/or hobbyists strung up charges for manufacturing without a license.
Click to expand...

At this point I just want to see what we can do. If anything, what we make will be just for us. I don't think the relative runs a business with the tools anymore. I get the feeling it's more along the lines of he had a shop, has retired, and is not selling off the machinery since you never know when you'll want/need to make something.

From what I recall, IF you make the item for yourself, you're ok. Try to sell it to someone else and you can get really buggered.

Since it's proving to be not so easy to even get a hold of the relative, I have no idea IF we'll ever get up there (about an hour drive from where I am now). I'd like to at least see what he's got access too. If things go beyond that, I'll probably try to consult with an attorney that knows all about this stuff. Better to know you're in the clear, than think you are only to be proven that you're not. At this point, it's simply not worth the pain to do it wrong.
 
We ask that you provide your procedures for determining proper jurisdiction of technical data within 30 days of the date of this letter to Ms. Bridget Van Buren, Compliance Specialist, Enforcement Division, at the address below.
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Translation: "The Ministry of Silly Walks has already decided that you are guilty, now you have to prove your innocence."
 
From what I recall, IF you make the item for yourself, you're ok. Try to sell it to someone else and you can get really buggered.
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True, but the danger is the line of what constitutes "making" if you rent out shop time. Help your client with one single adjustment on the machine and you may just find that customer is a federal agent who will claim that your assistance made you a manufacturer.

If you want to see what happens when someone follows the clear letter of the law, being careful not to cross the line, but is doing something the government really, really doesn't like in regards to firearms manufacture, read up on the saga of the Maadi Griffin fifty.
 
Glad i grabbed me the files before this happened . Anyone need them ? Ill upload somewhere if your interested. Just send me a pm :D
 
Rob Boudrie said:
True, but the danger is the line of what constitutes "making" if you rent out shop time. Help your client with one single adjustment on the machine and you may just find that customer is a federal agent who will claim that your assistance made you a manufacturer.

If you want to see what happens when someone follows the clear letter of the law, being careful not to cross the line, but is doing something the government really, really doesn't like in regards to firearms manufacture, read up on the saga of the Maadi Griffin fifty.
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As far as I know, the shop is free for my friend to use pretty much whenever he wants (just has to call ahead so the family member doesn't go out there with a gun and something messy happens). So no actual 'renting' of shop time/tooling will be done.

As I said, I'm more interested in seeing what the shop can do (at first). IF we're going to make some stuff for ourselves there, I'll get the info before hand to make sure we're going to be in the clear. A little time on the phone, or emails, is well worth NOT getting in deep shit over it (for anyone concerned). If I get my one machine/tooling, then I don't see an issue doing stuff for myself. Just not sure how long it will be before I can set up my own mill.
 
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dessert1st said:
Here's the latest Megapack, again from Mega.co.nz.

https://mega.co.nz/#!hwcQEAaD!EjyazDCvPYSPMJB7qKh3eRaLr0o0lO4CkZ48hpxRW0I

I am in the process of downloading this now since, just like every other technological advance, 3-D printers will become economical.

How often have you heard "I remember when computers were the size of a jail cell and took 2 hours to process a simple equation..." or something to that nature.
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thank you. wow the comments around the world are ignorant like always regarding 3D printed guns. [rolleyes] GMAFB
 

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