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Cops kill Down Syndrome man
- Thread starter joeendris
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falcon123
NES Member
As I already said, no common sense. Keep digging.
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He was no trouble during the first movie.
You can do better than that. Nobody here hates or has an extreme dislike for retarded people but they can't just do whatever they want when they want. I know it's extremely difficult to control someone like that, but you have to realize their actions effect others. It's responsibly.
Agreed.
You didn't have a ticket and you were punching windows.
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So I should be able to walk into a movie and not pay, since the movie is running anyway they aren't losing any money?
falcon123
NES Member
There are levels of "inconvenience". This was not one of them. The occasional tantrum should not relegate such people to a lifetime in prison because you might be inconvenienced. I deal with BS daily from so called normal everyday assh0les.
Right. You get to decide how much "inconvenience" other paying customers, and the business, have to put up with.
NAZI.
Tantrum? I would say the evidence supports that his previous outburst before returning into the theater was more than a "tantrum".
M1966
NES Member
How is that a false arguement?
Have you stood in front of a doctor while he told you your child would never be a fuctioning member of society?
Have you ever watched "typical" kids ignore your child because he's different- or worse point and laugh?
I had a woman once say to me after meeting my family," Well, at least your daughter is normal." and she thought she was being nice.
My son will NEVER get to be a cop...
My son will NEVER get to be in the military...
My son will NEVER be president...
He WILL however, for his entire life, have to deal with hemorroids like you...
falcon123
NES Member
1. Can't count the times I've been in a movie where the people with tickets were putting their feet on the back of my chair, talking on the phone , talking out loud, etc etc. I wish the JBTs would rough them up.
2. He was visible a handicapped person. All they had to do was wait for someone to pay for the ticket.
PS. you're still an ass.
yes he was.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
he then went nutty. i'm NOT even gonna go back & fourth about this. essentially you (we) (they) had a 300 pound adult with the mental capacity of what? a 4 year old? that in itself is a very volatile situation for 1 person to handle. the business wanted him gone.
**i am NOT excusing the cops behavior, but he didn't get murdered. he died as a result of medical complications and / or the struggle. IF that was your brother? son? would you let him out like that? knowing what you knew about his mental disability and medical history?
right! Fvck everybody else, let him sit through as many movies as he wants! let him cause a scene wherever he wants! i'll tell you what, i'd hate to have to pick up my family and leave because someone is throwing a fit in public. little kids are bad enough....
at the end of the day, he shouldn't have been out in public without 2+ experienced caretakers...
"Martlet: Maybe parents shouldn't send an unruly son into public without someone who can handle him.
Me: Are you saying handicap should be locked in a basement away from normal people just because they might act abnormal?"
You cannot control mentally ill with words and logic. If you could they would not be mentally ill. Crazy people do crazy shit. Yes, their actions do affect others. And if Ethan was pissing on other customers or biting them I’d agree that some degree of force might be necessary. But from everything I read it seems the victim simply wanted to see the movie again. Plus his caregiver was there and attempting to control the situation before she was prevented from doing so.
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It's a false argument because to suggest that someone that has not lived or experienced the exact same things as someone else precludes them from having an opinion on that subject matter.
M1966
NES Member
You're just a POS arguing for the sake of arguing... your opinion of anything means nothing to me so we're even.
Care giver advises police that the man is mentaly disabled , check.
Care giver cautions that he does not respond well to force , check.
Care giver informs police that mother is on the way to handle situation, minutes away, check.
Three stooges decide F**k it we're going to do it our way, check.
Guy is now dead , check.
Can't really see why anyone has a problem with this.
The two or three minutes it would have taken for the mother to get there was way too long to wait.
Someones popcorn might have gotten cold or something, perish the thought.
It's not a lack of training that's the problem , it's a lack of humanity.
I feel bad for the good guys I know wearing the uniform that have to be lumped it with tools like these
Care giver cautions that he does not respond well to force , check.
Care giver informs police that mother is on the way to handle situation, minutes away, check.
Three stooges decide F**k it we're going to do it our way, check.
Guy is now dead , check.
Can't really see why anyone has a problem with this.
The two or three minutes it would have taken for the mother to get there was way too long to wait.
Someones popcorn might have gotten cold or something, perish the thought.
It's not a lack of training that's the problem , it's a lack of humanity.
I feel bad for the good guys I know wearing the uniform that have to be lumped it with tools like these
You're a POS emotionally invested in a position and wants everyone else to cater to your desires, damn their inconvenience or wishes.
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I'm on my computer because I tried standing on my porch to have this conversation, but it didn't seem to get on the screen.
falcon123
NES Member
Right. Nobody but you is allowed a position. NAZI.
If I want to go watch a movie in peace, and the business owner wants to show me a movie in peace, any freedom loving citizen should feel it's not ok for a third party to disrupt that transaction.
falcon123
NES Member
You've been giving us your opinion since the beginning. I would have thought that by now you would have learned something but Noooooooooo. You're going to keep going being an ass whether we like it or not. You would have picked an argument with Ethan.
Send a bill to his family for the entire theater. Crazy people plus minor financial damages do not equal physical force. I have seen a kid pissing in a store. Maybe I should have called to cops to shoot the little bastard. Oh well, missed opportunity I guess.
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Oddly, the same statement works regarding you, too.
I find it pretty darn pathetic that some people find it okay that this man died simply because he may have been unruly. If you cannot see that there are other options to deal with things besides the use of force that ended up in this case, killing the man, I feel sorry for you.
As many people here who have experience dealing with individuals with Downs Syndrome, there are certain ways to deal with them, and certain things that regardless of how good your intentions may be, simply are not effective.
I knew a number of people with Downs Syndrome. Occasionally, some would get upset and become very stubborn. Somehow, in all those years, I don't recall a single instance in which any of them ended up with a crushed larynx, seriously injured, or killed. In not a single instance, were the people dealing with those individuals seriously injured or killed. In nearly every instance, eventually the individual calmed down and cooperated. He was what, 26 years old? I bet this wasn't the first time he had an outburst. Somehow people managed. I'm fairly confident that this time, where he ended up dead, somebody didn't handle things appropriately.
If your job is to deal with members of the public, then it is your job to act appropriately given the information at hand. When the caretaker asks you to allow her a little time to resolve it, and tells you any physical attempt to remove him will make things worse, and use use physical force, unless you have more knowledge of dealing with these situations, that is failing the most basic principles of your job. When that results in someones death, you should be held responsible.
Also, as others have mentioned, if a DA wants an indictment, they get it. Heck, I don't know the laws in this particular state, but often a DA can bring a case to a grand jury multiple times until they get one. Based simply on the fact a man died while in custody, and his death was medically ruled a homicide, it would have been pretty darn easy to get an indictment. When a grand jury only sees one side (the side the prosecutor gives them), this is telling. Attorneys often like to play fast and loose with the facts.
Had the DA simply said "This man died in the custody of these individuals. His death was ruled a homicide by the medical examiner. It isn't your job to determine whether that homicide was justifiable or not. That is for a jury in the trial to determine, when they have evidence presented from both sides. I'm asking you to return an indictment", the DA would have got an indictment.
As many people here who have experience dealing with individuals with Downs Syndrome, there are certain ways to deal with them, and certain things that regardless of how good your intentions may be, simply are not effective.
I knew a number of people with Downs Syndrome. Occasionally, some would get upset and become very stubborn. Somehow, in all those years, I don't recall a single instance in which any of them ended up with a crushed larynx, seriously injured, or killed. In not a single instance, were the people dealing with those individuals seriously injured or killed. In nearly every instance, eventually the individual calmed down and cooperated. He was what, 26 years old? I bet this wasn't the first time he had an outburst. Somehow people managed. I'm fairly confident that this time, where he ended up dead, somebody didn't handle things appropriately.
If your job is to deal with members of the public, then it is your job to act appropriately given the information at hand. When the caretaker asks you to allow her a little time to resolve it, and tells you any physical attempt to remove him will make things worse, and use use physical force, unless you have more knowledge of dealing with these situations, that is failing the most basic principles of your job. When that results in someones death, you should be held responsible.
Also, as others have mentioned, if a DA wants an indictment, they get it. Heck, I don't know the laws in this particular state, but often a DA can bring a case to a grand jury multiple times until they get one. Based simply on the fact a man died while in custody, and his death was medically ruled a homicide, it would have been pretty darn easy to get an indictment. When a grand jury only sees one side (the side the prosecutor gives them), this is telling. Attorneys often like to play fast and loose with the facts.
Had the DA simply said "This man died in the custody of these individuals. His death was ruled a homicide by the medical examiner. It isn't your job to determine whether that homicide was justifiable or not. That is for a jury in the trial to determine, when they have evidence presented from both sides. I'm asking you to return an indictment", the DA would have got an indictment.
I agree the police should have utilized what was there ( a caregiver that wanted to help and advised them to stay back) but we still don't know if the physical confrontation was initiated by the police. Physical force may have been needed, but certainty not enough to kill. It's not a question of could physical force have been avoided (it could be if you want hypotheticals), but a question of how much was used and why.
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Nobody finds it OK. Most aren't saying the police acted appropriately. Most are saying there were many factors that contributed to his death and many things that could have been done by either party that would have avoided it.
I'm saying at cries of NAZI and calls for officers to die a slow death are idiotic and uncalled for. That isn't the same as absolving the officers of blame.
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