Comm2A Sues over Property Forfeiture

[Len-2A Training]

Unless I mis-read the complaint as filed in court, any right-minded judge is going to have a real hard time with the following:

$20.00 transfer fee/item . . . and a box of ammo was noted as one of the items.

Somehow I doubt that Peter counts "one ammo can full of .223" as "one box". If he counts out the 50 boxes of 20 rds each in said ammo can, you are looking at "$1000.00 in transfer fees" for an item worth $199-300!! The "all or nothing" reclamation policy crystallizes this as usury of the highest order.

 

[Len-2A Training]

BA, my point was that if someone was going to reclaim their stuff, they would do it "fast" before the cost hits the national debt level. In most cases it takes many months to resolve the loss of LTC, 209A issues and by then you are underwater.

The real cost to Peter for storing your stuff is minuscule compared to the usurious fees charged. Look at my prior post just above this one. He's designed his fees to make sure that nobody reclaims the goods and thus he's home free.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

BA, my point was that if someone was going to reclaim their stuff, they would do it "fast" before the cost hits the national debt level. In most cases it takes many months to resolve the loss of LTC, 209A issues and by then you are underwater.

The real cost to Peter for storing your stuff is minuscule compared to the usurious fees charged. Look at my prior post just above this one. He's designed his fees to make sure that nobody reclaims the goods and thus he's home free.

True, my point was getting people to pay his fee would bet him more cash. If he was really a shrewd businessman, he would make his fees so that Rey aren't as sky high but just low enough where people are willing to spend a bit more than the value of the gun, thus increasing his profits.

Not that I want to give him any ideas

 

[TomH]

True, my point was getting people to pay his fee would bet him more cash. If he was really a shrewd businessman, he would make his fees so that Rey aren't as sky high but just low enough where people are willing to spend a bit more than the value of the gun, thus increasing his profits.

Not that I want to give him any ideas

I'm sure they have the rent vs resale value just perfect. Get a couple months rent, the person forgets or doesn't want to bother anymore, then sell the piece off. It needs to be high enough people will pay it only for a while.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

There need to be penalties involved for departments or individuals from departments who fail to follow the laws (or the constitution), when confiscating guns.

The police lobby has proven that it is very effective at killing any legislation that imposes a penalty on the police for not following the law. A great example is the MA Katrina style confiscation protection - it was at a point where passage is all but a fait accompli, and the police lobby killed it because it contained actual penalties on the police for violation of the proposed law (rather than just a penalty-free requirement like the 40 day LTC processing deadline).

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Unless Dowd has some kind of leverage over them, that we don't know of.

The leverage that was reportedly used when various warehouses provided "private, off the record" feedback at the time of the public "regulatory hearing" conducted by the GCAB/EOPS was "regulate us and we will shut down, then the PD's will have to handle the storage".

 

[Coyote33]

The police lobby has proven that it is very effective at killing any legislation that imposes a penalty on the police for not following the law. A great example is the MA Katrina style confiscation protection - it was at a point where passage is all but a fait accompli, and the police lobby killed it because it contained actual penalties on the police for violation of the proposed law (rather than just a penalty-free requirement like the 40 day LTC processing deadline).

I would think that EOPS would want to enter an agreement to make theses regulations post haste. Throwing Dowd under the bus, to save thier own ass. Unless Dowd has some kind of leverage over them, that we don't know of.

As far as the Bonded Storage idea in the 98 Jacques Gun Law, IIRC that was a MCOPA Idea.

Two dings in rapid succession in one post!

Ding Ding!!!!

We know who the enemy of freedom is now, don't we? (P.S. It was not US who chose this path.)

 

[Len-2A Training]

As far as the Bonded Storage idea in the 98 Jacques Gun Law, IIRC that was a MCOPA Idea.

I had not heard this part before, so did not know the origin.

If that is the case, and we all know (it's obvious by his advertising) that Dowd is very tight with MCOPA . . . I leave it to the reader to try to connect the dots . . .

 

[piman]

True, my point was getting people to pay his fee would bet him more cash. If he was really a shrewd businessman, he would make his fees so that Rey aren't as sky high but just low enough where people are willing to spend a bit more than the value of the gun, thus increasing his profits.

Not that I want to give him any ideas

Make the fees high, sell the gun for lesser than what's owed, take the difference as a loss! This is shrewd. Wonder if the IRS would be interested??

Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk

 

[OfficerObie59]

As far as the Bonded Storage idea in the 98 Jacques Gun Law, IIRC that was a MCOPA Idea.

MCOPA is by and large the organization most responsible for the LE/gun owner disconnect in MA. Hands down.

Well, them and the legislature...

 

[Coyote33]

I was looking for something else, but just stumbled across these guys. I'm surprised I haven't read of or heard of them before.

Bay State Gun Buyers

 

[FreeWillie]

Yeah, punish the rank-and-file guy who's directed to send the firearm in. I'm sure the policy was all his idea. That'll be a way to make them advocate on your behalf when the time comes. Seriously, that type of stuff is so far above the paygrade of a regular patrolman that blaming him makes no sense. Plus, unless you surf NES on a regular basis, you probably know very little about "bonded warehouses". I didn't know anything about these issues until I was posting here awhile.

Furthermore, in that scenario where someone apparently turned in a handgun voluntarily, why would the department hold on to it and waste the space? Seems to me that may be one of the only scenarios where sending a gun to a warehouse may actually be appropriate.

What OO59 said. Don't punish the messenger. Go after the REAL problem.

 

[MassHack]

Way to Go!

 

[terraformer]

So, just an update. The state has failed to adopt regulations, instead asking for more time (apparently a year wasn't enough) and so we moved for partial summary judgement on one of the two counts. The second is tied directly to those regs. We will post the docs on our website once I get the official copies. Some of them are redacted so I can't use the copies I have on my system.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

On Monday Comm2A filed a Motion for Partial Summary Judgement on the one count. The Cliff's Notes version:

Village Vault is a state actor and deprived people of their property without providing due process in violation of the plaintiffs' Fourteenth Amendment property rights.

Jarvis v. Village Vault

 

[Palladin]

go get 'em!

 

[Scarecrow]

No decision has yet been made as to whether some form of regulatory language is
appropriate, or what form that language might take. Given the press and urgency of other
matters, the complexity of the present inquiry, and, given that other Officers and
Secretariats have a role in reviewing and approving any proposed regulations, counsel
anticipates that the Secretary will not be in a position to determine whether it is
appropriate to propose any draft regulatory language, or to report any specific proposals,
for at least 90 days from now. Therefore, it might be appropriate for this Court to
schedule a further status report in this case for a date 90 days or more hence.
Respectfully Submitted,
MARTHA COAKLEY
ATTORNEY GENERAL

Is it just me, or does this translate to "Go **** yourself, we're going to do whatever we want, and you'll just sit back and like it because we'll stall forever!"

Edit: Also, reading through the last court brief makes me wish horrible and unending pain on places like Village Vault and the police that transfer stuff into their clutches. I hope their own personal firearms end up in a similar predicament with similar outcomes. Douchebags.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

On Monday Comm2A filed a Motion for Partial Summary Judgement on the one count. The Cliff's Notes version:

Village Vault is a state actor and deprived people of their property without providing due process in violation of the plaintiffs' Fourteenth Amendment property rights.

Jarvis v. Village Vault

The entire motion is worth a read. Attorney Jensen has done an exceptional job on this one.

 

[Scarecrow]

The entire motion is worth a read. Attorney Jensen has done an exceptional job on this one.

Normally, legal stuff is mind numbingly drab... this was a heck of a good read and very well spoken; I hope it turns out well for the plaintiffs and Massachusetts finally is forced to stop being a raging dick to it's firearms enthusiasts.

 

[taz-2005]

That's quite a little scam Village Vault has going. How long have they been doing it?

 

[WatchCityCPA]

That's quite a little scam Village Vault has going. How long have they been doing it?

For as long as their buddies in the state legislature and police departments allowed them to.

And they are actively looking for ore opportunities to do the same stuff today, don't worry My understanding is that they are paying for ads in trade journals, being super nice to the MCOPA, etc.

 

[Revelationechc]

For as long as their buddies in the state legislature and police departments allowed them to.

And they are actively looking for ore opportunities to do the same stuff today, don't worry My understanding is that they are paying for ads in trade journals, being super nice to the MCOPA, etc.

True, they pay for a HUGE ad in the MCOPA monthly newsletter.

 

[JJ4]

That's quite a little scam Village Vault has going. How long have they been doing it?

For as long as their buddies in the state legislature and police departments allowed them to.

And they are actively looking for ore opportunities to do the same stuff today, don't worry My understanding is that they are paying for ads in trade journals, being super nice to the MCOPA, etc.

I wonder if there is a list of towns that actively utilize Village Vault anywhere? Is there any action that a town meeting or board of selectmen could take that would effectively bind the town's police department from turning over property to a bonded warehouse without notice?

 

[WatchCityCPA]

I wonder if there is a list of towns that actively utilize Village Vault anywhere? Is there any action that a town meeting or board of selectmen could take that would effectively bind the town's police department from turning over property to a bonded warehouse without notice?

That would require the same citizens that allowed this clusterf**k to happen to get up, start paying attention and spend some effort to fix it. If they were so inclined, we would not have had these issues in the first place.

Not holding my breath... plus, the PD does not have to "actively use" VV officially - who will keep track of that and react to every occurrence?

 

[Apathesis]

The fact that these bonded warehouses even exist is detestable. So incredibly scummy.

 

[Iram]

What OO59 said. Don't punish the messenger. Go after the REAL problem.

I disagree.

"I was just following orders" shouldn't give someone immunity.

Think I'd be able to get out of jail free if my boss told me to go rob a bank? After all, I was just following orders from my superior...

 

[economist]

Stupid gun laws create a demand for storage. For example: Domestic Violence Offender Gun Ban

The act bans shipment, transport, ownership and use of guns or ammunition by individuals convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence, or who are under a restraining (protection) order for domestic abuse in all 50 states. The act also makes it unlawful to knowingly sell or give a firearm or ammunition to such persons.

Tons of marriages end in divorce, a big fraction of divorces involve restraining orders (regardless of any legitimate safety concerns), and so every day we have law-abiding harmless people forced to hand over every gun and all of their ammunition just because their spouse's lawyer decided to play a card in the divorce game. That's just the start of it, but you can see how a police force could easily need a pretty big storage facility and inventory system to manage things.

There is no excuse for any of this, and the situation in Mass is beyond wrong. So let's hope Comm2A is successful here. All of us should be very thankful to have them out there doing what they do, and so well.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

All of us should be very thankful to have them out there doing what they do, and so well.

The best way to thank Comm2A is with a contribution.

The Jarvis v. VV case would not have been filed if it were not for the numerous donations we have received from individual supporters.

 

[ISOTOX]

NRA and Goal dues this year will go to Comm 2A....along with extra monthly....Do not need anymore Weekly news letters or continued hounding for money that is not spent to advance our right's in State....Keep up the Fight 2A

 

[Rob Boudrie]

What would be really impressive, and do wonders for the reputation of a shop offering bonded warehouse services, would be

- Reasonable rates
- A "grace period" of 14 days or during which the guns could be transferred out to any lawful recipient at no charge.

If the rates were reasonable, and did not attempt to turn a large collection into a multi-thousand dollar windfall for the warehouse, many customers would not opt for the second option - especially since a 209A confiscation requires transfer to a dealer only.