CMP M1 Garand and Mondern Military is next 11/05/2017 @ OCSA pembroke ma

[mac1911]

Well then, it will have to come out and some careful fitting shall be done.

I don't think he will be there I think he's off to a long range shoot? But you know if he is and he sees it he's got to say something.
He had a little fun poking at the "modern military " ARs and the go pro camera on one shooters stock...at last month's match.

As always it's a fun match but we do try to follow the rules....just modified by the match director sometimes.

 

[dw617]

I used a special CMP legal Coke Can

 

[Mountain]

So what would be the legal means to achieve a tight fitting 1903 sight?

 

[mac1911]

So what would be the legal means to achieve a tight fitting 1903 sight?

Ask Franco

I would start with a complete disassemble and inspection and replace the spring. Check the adjusting screw for wear? Also the pivot under the base..?
I don't have much experience with the 1903s other than checking some out for friends

 

[dw617]

So what would be the legal means to achieve a tight fitting 1903 sight?

I wouldn't worry about it...... I'm not. Especially for a rifle I might shoot 1-2x a year.

CMP Rulebook for 1903 only mentions shims for the stock and action

"The use of shims made of any material in the action and barrel beddingareas of the stock is prohibited. "

Sight rules

"Sights must be of the same types that were on rifles issued to regularmilitary personnel. Special purpose sights designed for sniping, targetpractice or competition are not permitted."

"Front sight blades with USMC dimensions for blade thickness arepermitted on both M1903 and M1903A3 rifles. The top of the front sightblade must not be wider than 0.100”. "


There's a small spring in the windage knob whose job it is to pull the threads of the windage screw and rear sight base together. The spring is worn, so shimming just restores that functionality. Back in the day, armorers would have access to all new parts they could easily swap out, etc. The shim isn't giving you any additional advantage.

 

[mac1911]

I wouldn't worry about it...... I'm not. Especially for a rifle I might shoot 1-2x a year.

CMP Rulebook for 1903 only mentions shims for the stock and action

"The use of shims made of any material in the action and barrel beddingareas of the stock is prohibited. "

Sight rules

"Sights must be of the same types that were on rifles issued to regularmilitary personnel. Special purpose sights designed for sniping, targetpractice or competition are not permitted."

"Front sight blades with USMC dimensions for blade thickness arepermitted on both M1903 and M1903A3 rifles. The top of the front sightblade must not be wider than 0.100”. "


There's a small spring in the windage knob whose job it is to pull the threads of the windage screw and rear sight base together. The spring is worn, so shimming just restores that functionality. Back in the day, armorers would have access to all new parts they could easily swap out, etc. The shim isn't giving you any additional advantage.

Yup... I might be shooting out of comp with my "new" 1903a3 "match" Rifle with cast loads?
Still can't decided....even the 513t 22lr has made the short list.
Down to 4
K98,K31,a3 or 513t If we don't have pullers for vintage I might just shoot the AR varmint gun?

 

[dw617]

Yup... I might be shooting out of comp with my "new" 1903a3 "match" Rifle with cast loads?
Still in decided....even the 513t 22lr has made the short list.

Think I saw your posts on that rifle on CMP forums..... Either way, no one's getting turned away at Pembroke. Even in a more official match, a DQ doesn't mean "doesn't get to shoot", just means you aren't eligible for an award. (right?)

 

[Mountain]

How does the match work without pullers? Take all 55 shots before scoring & worst 5 are your 'sighters'?

 

[dw617]

How does the match work without pullers? Take all 55 shots before scoring & worst 5 are your 'sighters'?

Each course of fire is shot, walk down, score, repair targets; repeat.

For the slow prone, we don't walk down for the sighters so you essentially get to drop your 5 lowest shots and assign them as sighters on the scorecard.

Hoping we have enough guys to run the pits this time around.

 

[mac1911]

Think I saw your posts on that rifle on CMP forums..... Either way, no one's getting turned away at Pembroke. Even in a more official match, a DQ doesn't mean "doesn't get to shoot", just means you aren't eligible for an award. (right?)

Correct no one is turned away. IF for some reason your gun can not be used there are always people willing to let you shoot theirs or club gun.

Bottom line bring what you have.

 

[mac1911]

UP FOR REMINDER 10/16 8am come on down.....don't have a M1 don't worry club guns are awesome shooters.

 

[daekken]

So I'm planning to go on the 16th. Mac's provided a ton of info, for which I am very thankful.

I've never had to score targets or anything before like this (or done any kind of competition).

Does anyone else have any tips they wouldn't mind sharing? From general flow of things, tips, suggestions, etc. What kind of layout does the club have? Is there a particular place to go when you arrive?

 

[mac1911]

So I'm planning to go on the 16th. Mac's provided a ton of info, for which I am very thankful.

I've never had to score targets or anything before like this (or done any kind of competition).

Does anyone else have any tips they wouldn't mind sharing? From general flow of things, tips, suggestions, etc. What kind of layout does the club have? Is there a particular place to go when you arrive?

the 200 yard house is the last door to the right as you face the club house.
Chair and a clip board and pencil....
general flow.....we try
score keeping is easy, working pits is easy....sometimes we need to do both at the same time not much fun but not to hard.

 

[mac1911]

target scoring

watch the video for a good idea... the score disc placement is in the instructions below


Here is the CMP print instructions

http://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/TargetPullingInstr.pdf

 

[Mountain]

So I'm planning to go on the 16th. Mac's provided a ton of info, for which I am very thankful.

I've never had to score targets or anything before like this (or done any kind of competition).

Does anyone else have any tips they wouldn't mind sharing? From general flow of things, tips, suggestions, etc. What kind of layout does the club have? Is there a particular place to go when you arrive?

LOL, I had the same questions maybe ~2 years ago. Now I'm hooked. Excellent that you are going to give it a go, it's a lot of fun.

Being a complete newb is very fresh in my mind, because I still don't have a lot of experience. I'm at least to the point I can get a semi decent score. Lot's of room for improvement but that's part of the fun. The short version is that the 'clinic' instruction given before the match and the help you receive will have you covered.

When you arrive, the rifle house is to the right of the main building entrance. You will probably see some 'experienced' looking guys / gals entering the main club house for breakfast. The rifle house is to the right of that, separate steps. Bathroom is inside to the back of the main club house,.

Some things you will need:

Eye and ear protection of course. Fairly solid boots (work boots or hiking boots) will help prop up your legs / knees for shooting seated. You want your elbows supported so that your arms (and the rifle) aren't flapping around. We'll all have a chance to flap around during the standing offhand stage. Bring a sweatshirt you can wear to shoot in. If there is a shooting jacket that fits I suggest you try it. You wear the sweatshirt under a shooting jacket for padding between your arm and the sling. Definitely use a sling- someone will show you how.

You open to discussing over the phone? I can take a break sometime tomorrow and give you a ring to discuss. PM your number if you like. My German Shepherd is literally knocking my hands off the keyboard with her nose and my Rottie keeps ringing the sleigh bells on the door handle. Guess it's time to let the dogs out. I can write more tomorrow.

 

[mac1911]

will help some long watch

A more modern video but still applies

 

[daekken]

LOL, I had the same questions maybe ~2 years ago. Now I'm hooked. Excellent that you are going to give it a go, it's a lot of fun.

Being a complete newb is very fresh in my mind, because I still don't have a lot of experience. I'm at least to the point I can get a semi decent score. Lot's of room for improvement but that's part of the fun. The short version is that the 'clinic' instruction given before the match and the help you receive will have you covered.

When you arrive, the rifle house is to the right of the main building entrance. You will probably see some 'experienced' looking guys / gals entering the main club house for breakfast. The rifle house is to the right of that, separate steps. Bathroom is inside to the back of the main club house,.

Some things you will need:

Eye and ear protection of course. Fairly solid boots (work boots or hiking boots) will help prop up your legs / knees for shooting seated. You want your elbows supported so that your arms (and the rifle) aren't flapping around. We'll all have a chance to flap around during the standing offhand stage. Bring a sweatshirt you can wear to shoot in. If there is a shooting jacket that fits I suggest you try it. You wear the sweatshirt under a shooting jacket for padding between your arm and the sling. Definitely use a sling- someone will show you how.

You open to discussing over the phone? I can take a break sometime tomorrow and give you a ring to discuss. PM your number if you like. My German Shepherd is literally knocking my hands off the keyboard with her nose and my Rottie keeps ringing the sleigh bells on the door handle. Guess it's time to let the dogs out. I can write more tomorrow.

Thanks, PM inbound.

 

[mac1911]

Thanks, PM inbound.

one tip: make sure your sights are tight

seriously few other things....
work on going fron standing to prone and sitting to prone. If your not used to shooting sitting practice as much as you can. I generally sling up and try to find a sitting position that works for each rifle. I have arthritis in my hips and some times a position that worked last match is to uncomfortable next match.

During rapids you load on a empty chamber....insert your clip then close the action with out letting the bolt pick up round. once your in position you can chamber a round.
take advantage of the 2min prep time to find you position for the best natural point of aim.

its all fun and if it doesnt feel right or uncomfortable,,,,,well thats normal.
From one of the old timers about sitting position after some complained it hurts
" yeah it might be uncomfortable or painful BUT its only 80 F'n secounds, shut up and shoot"

I can usually power through the hip pain but in the few days before a match I can find a position that works better

 

[dw617]

We were all new once. One of the first matches I ever shot was with a SA Garand which I had swapped out the Gas Plug the week prior in an attempt to "correct it". Little did I know, the gas plug poppet was dirty and would stick open, essentially turning the rifle into a single shot rifle intermittently. I remember the match director asking WTF I was doing manually cycling the rifle during the rapid fire. I think I shot a 200 something.

Just show up with the essentials. Everything else will fall into place.
* Rifle
* Ammo, always bring more than the course of fire calls for (pembroke is 55 rnds)
* Clips/mags for your rifle
* Sling
* Water / your favorite drink
* Snacks, something you can eat without it touching your hands, like a cliff bar
* Eyes and ears
* Boots, as Mountain mentioned these will help in the Sitting Position.
* Sweatshirt
* $10 cost to shoot match

 

[daekken]

So in the videos of M1 matches I skimmed on YouTube, it looks like nearly everyone goes with Olympic style prone over military prone?

 

[dw617]

So in the videos of M1 matches I skimmed on YouTube, it looks like nearly everyone goes with Olympic style prone over military prone?

I had to google both, and I believe I shoot "olympic style". When you have your primary leg (right, for righty; left, for lefty) up and bent at 90 at the knee it does 2 things: 1, provides you with good support in the rear and 2, forces your torso and shoulder up so the buttstock has a nice place to live. Get on your living room floor and try both, you'll see what I mean.

 

[mac1911]

So in the videos of M1 matches I skimmed on YouTube, it looks like nearly everyone goes with Olympic style prone over military prone?

Go with what your comfortable with.
What you should see in those videos is another common among those shooters.

Any how I'm a LH shooter so here's a few in sights on my issues.
Military Prone. (Is how I learned growing up but also "forced" to shoot righty )
1. I feel as if all the weight is on my right elbow and I also tend to fade(lean) to the right. Throwing my natural point of aim off right and low.
2. I just can't get my left elbow up under me for solid support.
3. Between my flexibility or lack of and arthritis my hips don't like it. Also my back and neck arch adding some discomfort
If you know military prone and are comfortable with it use it especially at a "match" try new things at the range for practice.

Olympic prone= drawing your trigger side knee up along your side.
1. Shifts my weight just enough to feel balanced on both elbows.
2. I can get both elbows more "under" the rifle for support
3. My back is not as arched

Oh and many don't shoot well balancing on the belly

 

[daekken]

I had to google both, and I believe I shoot "olympic style". When you have your primary leg (right, for righty; left, for lefty) up and bent at 90 at the knee it does 2 things: 1, provides you with good support in the rear and 2, forces your torso and shoulder up so the buttstock has a nice place to live. Get on your living room floor and try both, you'll see what I mean.

Go with what your comfortable with.
What you should see in those videos is another common among those shooters.

Any how I'm a LH shooter so here's a few in sights on my issues.
Military Prone. (Is how I learned growing up but also "forced" to shoot righty )
1. I feel as if all the weight is on my right elbow and I also tend to fade(lean) to the right. Throwing my natural point of aim off right and low.
2. I just can't get my left elbow up under me for solid support.
3. Between my flexibility or lack of and arthritis my hips don't like it. Also my back and neck arch adding some discomfort
If you know military prone and are comfortable with it use it especially at a "match" try new things at the range for practice.

Olympic prone= drawing your trigger side knee up along your side.
1. Shifts my weight just enough to feel balanced on both elbows.
2. I can get both elbows more "under" the rifle for support
3. My back is not as arched

Oh and many don't shoot well balancing on the belly

I'm lefthanded as well. I was just a little surprised, I expected it to be a little more spread out, like 30% mil/70% olympic. Across a few videos I only saw maybe two or three guys using military prone.

When I shoot prone I typically use military, but I don't shoot prone often at all so I'm more interested in finding what works best for me.

I also see crosslegged for sitting is popular. I usually don't shoot that way, preferring something more like this:

But I guess it's like most sports, everyone has their own preferences and things will be different depending on the person, their strengths, and their limitations.

If anything, this is reinforcing the importance that I practice the different positions more often. On Tuesday I did a little more prone and sitting practice but nothing near enough to make up for lost time.

I tried rice paddy prone and did not care for it at all!

 

[majspud]

Lefty here also. Unfortunately with my neck, I can no longer shoot prone. If I can make it, is there a medical exception?

T

 

[mac1911]

Lefty here also. Unfortunately with my neck, I can no longer shoot prone. If I can make it, is there a medical exception?

T

Yes I'm sure they will adapt. You would have to either sit,kneel or stand. Also if you can't go from standing to prone or sitting the standing rule is you can't take a shot until someone else shoots first.

Honestly Hanson would be better suited as you could shoot from the bench for the entire course of fire and it's only about 1.5hrs vs 3+ for the match at Pembroke.

 

[mac1911]

I'm lefthanded as well. I was just a little surprised, I expected it to be a little more spread out, like 30% mil/70% olympic. Across a few videos I only saw maybe two or three guys using military prone.

When I shoot prone I typically use military, but I don't shoot prone often at all so I'm more interested in finding what works best for me.

I also see crosslegged for sitting is popular. I usually don't shoot that way, preferring something more like this:

But I guess it's like most sports, everyone has their own preferences and things will be different depending on the person, their strengths, and their limitations.

If anything, this is reinforcing the importance that I practice the different positions more often. On Tuesday I did a little more prone and sitting practice but nothing near enough to make up for lost time.

I tried rice paddy prone and did not care for it at all!

You just need to find something that works.
I for the most part can not shoot cross legged. I can with the K31 because of the way the gun fits.
For Tue M1 and AR I go cross ankle.

 

[majspud]

I sit on my left ankle and stretch out my right leg as a
Counterweight.

So is that four lefties here?

T

 

[Mountain]

I sit on my left ankle and stretch out my right leg as a
Counterweight.

So is that four lefties here?

T

Maybe 4-1/2 . I'm mostly lefty but always shoot righty with a rifle. If I shoot one handed with a pistol, I prefer the left but either will do. I think lefty would be convenient for AR's and not too bad with M1's, but I don't know how you guys do it with RHS bolt action.

Maybe I can order a ambidextrous hardback jacket from Creedmoor?

 

[mac1911]

Maybe 4-1/2 . I'm mostly lefty but always shoot righty with a rifle. If I shoot one handed with a pistol, I prefer the left but either will do. I think lefty would be convenient for AR's and not too bad with M1's, but I don't know how you guys do it with RHS bolt action.

Maybe I can order a ambidextrous hardback jacket from Creedmoor?

Well not being a real lefty you will find it difficult...I shoot lefty because righty is to easy

Finally finished reloading for tomorrow...
Still undecided if I'm shooting the K31 or the 513t 22lr

 

[daekken]

Can't believe there are so many lefties. Expected to be the oddball. I tried shooting right handed a few range trips with my 10/22 to see if would work but I gave up pretty quickly. Maybe if I shot that way from the start.

For bolt actions like a Mosin Nagant I just reach over the top. Straight bolt handle is convenient. I actually prefer AK to AR since the charging handle and safety are easily seen on the right side of the rifle and for me, easier to manipulate. Since they're light, I just leave my left hand on the pistol grip.

I did get to handle one of Stag's lefty ARs once and it was nice.

According to Google, M1 is heavier than Mosin Nagant? Good thing that the offhand segment is slow fire, to rest those arms.