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I was asking a question about how to counter the discussions on twitter from the church leadership, who are supporting gun control, which I do not agree with.
... being Catholic ... Catholic heirarchy ... I'm not Catholic. ... I believe that the Catholic Church ... I believe that the Catholic... The Catholic Church ...are you Catholic or are you not Catholic? Let's have an answer!
I think drawing attention to your position may have unintended consequences
...The only possible answer for you, though, is that you must do as your conscience demands. What else can a man do, in questions of faith? So must your fellow churchgoers.
It goes back to the Middle Ages. Crusaders. Knights Templars. A quote in the Bible attributed to Jesus Christ Himself who suggested that anyone who does not possess a sword should purchase one. No firearms, but in those days, the sword was the queen of personal weapons.Anti gun orgs always seem to make exceptions for special people. Amazon and Facebook almost certainly ban guns on company property, but good luck getting near one of their CEOs at work without being very near a gun toting bodyguard. And then there is this Swiss Guard thing with the Pope.
If being Catholic means that like you.....I have to believe I'm better than any other Christian faith simply because i fully 100 percent blindly accept everything that the out of touch Catholic heirarchy spew from their mouths.....yeah....I guess I'm not Catholic. Look around at masses lately? Average age is about 60. Wonder why?!?!
But.....I'm proud to admit I have a brain.
On another topic related to Christian faith......I separate the church.....and the government. I believe that the Catholic Church has the right to refuse marriage to same sex couple's......as it doesn't fit the teaching of our faith. However.....I believe that the Catholic and other Christian churches have absolutely no right to expect the government to legislate to fit the church's beliefs of morality. A same sex marriage In the eyes of the government In no way effects the sanctity of a Christian marriage. If you think it does......you do not understand what individual freedom means.
The Catholic Church does believe in gun control....that's a fact. So....are you Catholic or are you not Catholic? Let's have an answer!
Let me see if I understand this correctly:I am a Catholic and the Catholic Church does not believe in gun control. Don’t listen to off the cuff remarks from the pope or the cardinals or the bishops or the priests. The Catholic Church stands firmly on the side of God given rights. One of those is the right to defend yourself.
That’s funny. After my parish priest said so I thing during the homily after the CT shooting, my wife leaned over and asked if I was carrying. I smiled and nodded. I never bothered talking to the priest. It would do no good. You just have to remember that the quality and quantity of priests has fallen dramatically since V2. Pray for more and better priests.I am just biding my time until my parish priest says something about gun control.
I will then ask him if he knows about some small organization called the Swiss Guards. I will next ask him what they do and who they protect and what are some of the tools which they use and if they would use these tools to visit deadly force upon someone who tries to attack their protectee.
We will see how it goes after that.
I didn’t say you aren’t a Catholic. But you have admitted that you are a lapsed Catholic. I didn’t bring it up, you just did.Let me see if I understand this correctly:
You stated I'm not Catholic because I take some and not other "beliefs" of the Catholic Church.
Yet.....the pope.....who in order to be a "true" Catholic you must believe is infallible in teachings of faith......states that gun control is necessary......and you just told me to ignore him.
That's strange.
Vox populi, vox Dei.
30 seconds with Google have turned up the following articles:
This one is a brief counter-argument: A Biblical Argument for Self-Defense
This one too is brief: Should Christians Defend Themselves?
Here's a list of scriptures related to self-defense: What Does the Bible Say About Self Defense?
This one is much more in-depth, with both OT and NT references: Biblical Self-Defense: What does the Bible say about self-defense? Bible study about self-defense questions: Can a Christian own a gun? What do the Scriptures say about using lethal force for self-protection?
And here's a book that provides a Christian support for Natural Law. I presume it might support Christian self-defense given the natural law basis often asserted for self defense: NATURAL LAW: A Brief Introduction and Biblical Defense
Also, someone on here said something about following you conscience. Which is true. That is all you can do. But you must be sure to have an informed conscience. In other words, if you are pro abortion because that’s what your conscience tells you, then you have failed to inform your conscience.
Sorry, only politically favored religions get to play that card.This is a real shame because I am a lutheran and I feel personally attacked by this.
I find this offensive
You totally missed the point about being informed. But that’s ok. Good luck brother!Yup. You went there.
I’m the guy who said that about consciences, and now you’ve twisted it to fit your judgemental belief system. I was trying to be polite and respectful toward everyone’s beliefs, but no. Take your sanctimony and your false piety and do what you want with it, but judge not lest you be judged. And don’t you dare put any more words in my mouth either. Come up with your own next time.
OK, enough Catholic talk.
What are some points I can use against a non-Catholic pastor or other clergy person?
Aside from the bogus statistics and studies they use, how can I counter their other points and language?
I think that is part of the problem. People tend to want to only focus on Jesus and the New Testament, return evil to no one, love your neighbor etc.
One passage states that "as far as it depends on you, live in peace with each other". The first line lays out the exception. It's saying don't be a trouble maker. It's not saying be a doormat. Even though a lot of the OT things don't apply even Jesus quoted from it. As you said the OT is clear about self defense and the bible also mentions God is the same and doesn't change his standards. So it's reasonable to conclude Jesus did not mean you can't defend yourself. A lot of people don't want to think. It's easier to accept whatever answer they are given.
I am a Catholic and the Catholic Church...
...You stated I'm not Catholic ...
That’s funny. After my parish priest said ...
I didn’t say you aren’t a Catholic...
30 seconds with Google have turned up the following articles:
This one is a brief counter-argument: A Biblical Argument for Self-Defense
This one too is brief: Should Christians Defend Themselves?
Here's a list of scriptures related to self-defense: What Does the Bible Say About Self Defense?
This one is much more in-depth, with both OT and NT references: Biblical Self-Defense: What does the Bible say about self-defense? Bible study about self-defense questions: Can a Christian own a gun? What do the Scriptures say about using lethal force for self-protection?
And here's a book that provides a Christian support for Natural Law. I presume it might support Christian self-defense given the natural law basis often asserted for self defense: NATURAL LAW: A Brief Introduction and Biblical Defense