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church/religion and shooting

I have found that many clergy members from main stream denominations, Protestant, Catholic, etc., are hardcore anti's. The further one goes from "Evangelical" churches, the worse it gets.
 
If they get too testy, I am just going to stop going, and say my church abandoned me.
 
Anti gun orgs always seem to make exceptions for special people. Amazon and Facebook almost certainly ban guns on company property, but good luck getting near one of their CEOs at work without being very near a gun toting bodyguard. And then there is this Swiss Guard thing with the Pope.
 
Oh man. I have to respond. Be kind with the ban hammer.

I’m a Catholic. There are ~22 other churches that are in communion with the Church and acknowledge the primacy of the pope as Peter’s successor, the successor that Christ himself appointed.

All the other sects are rightly called Protestants. They are protesting Christ.

This being said, the Protestants don’t speak for Christ nor do their views in regards to self defense mean anything to me.

The church has had worse popes. But it’s the oldest organization in existence and will not perish before Christ returns.

Now with this all being said, as a scholar of Catholic doctrine, a student of the scripture, and a practicing Catholic, you do have an absolute right to self defense. Absolutely.

And with that being said, someone who harms you has done far more damage to their soul than they did to yours. Love your enemies. At the same time, as Christians, we have the duty and obligation to protect the weak.

I would just refer all of you to Thomas Aquinas and just war theory and everything else he wrote. He’s likely the most intelligent person who’s ever lived and is far more eloquent than me.
 
My father was a Methodist pastor for 16yrs of his life.
He carried a revolver every Sunday without fail. I was
gifted my first .22 rifle when I was 9yo. On the other
hand my mother was a daughter of a minister and she
was a hard core anti? So I think the church people are
just like all other people. Some are for some are against?

P.S.—I still have the rifle. It’s a Stevens Springfield .22
semi-auto. It’s of a time before serial numbers were required.
It has none. I refinished the stock not long ago. It still looks
and shoots great.
 
Last edited:
Coyote33 said:
I recently saw this Twitter article from the Bishop of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America.

Bishop Eaton (@ELCABishopEaton) | Twitter

mentioned this:
A Christian Case for Gun Control | Mere Orthodoxy

and this:
Opinion | Why Christians Must Support Gun Control

Just wondering what others' thoughts are on this, and how to discuss with them.
Click to expand...
Skipped the twittering, but the other 2 articles made no argument that was particularly Christian in any way. They simply repeated the usual litany of hoplophobic tripe with a thin veneer of psuedo-Christian verbiage. Typical main-line progressive crap.
 
Here’s the bullshit a leading Cardinal 58BADE30-2C08-48AD-B584-9D1E9DB96B18.jpeg is posting...

praying to BVM for more gun control
 
teaser452 said:
Oh man. I have to respond. Be kind with the ban hammer.

I’m a Catholic. There are ~22 other churches that are in communion with the Church and acknowledge the primacy of the pope as Peter’s successor, the successor that Christ himself appointed.

All the other sects are rightly called Protestants. They are protesting Christ.

This being said, the Protestants don’t speak for Christ nor do their views in regards to self defense mean anything to me.

The church has had worse popes. But it’s the oldest organization in existence and will not perish before Christ returns.

Now with this all being said, as a scholar of Catholic doctrine, a student of the scripture, and a practicing Catholic, you do have an absolute right to self defense. Absolutely.

And with that being said, someone who harms you has done far more damage to their soul than they did to yours. Love your enemies. At the same time, as Christians, we have the duty and obligation to protect the weak.

I would just refer all of you to Thomas Aquinas and just war theory and everything else he wrote. He’s likely the most intelligent person who’s ever lived and is far more eloquent than me.
Click to expand...

Sir your knowledge of the Protestant denominations is greatly lacking.
I won’t get into it with you as it seems you’ve already made up
your mind. The damage the Catholic Church has done to the teachings
of Christ is endless. I just want you to know there are plenty of people
out here who disagree highly with your opinion.
 
Didn't bother with the links
Just finishing one of my ministries while armed - church leaders fully aware that a number of us carry 100% at church.
 
[offtopic]
OK, let's leave the Catholic Church out of it for the time being, as they would not come into my particular conversation as outlined above. Thanks.


@sieveboy what is "BVM"?
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Anti gun orgs always seem to make exceptions for special people. Amazon and Facebook almost certainly ban guns on company property, but good luck getting near one of their CEOs at work without being very near a gun toting bodyguard. And then there is this Swiss Guard thing with the Pope.
Click to expand...

"This Swiss Guard thing with the Pope" is a remnant from when Il Papa had earthly, in addition to spiritual, powers. Mercenaries, particularly the Swiss, were useful to small yet rich states in the 14th-17th centuries. Especially with the Papacy because the Popes did not trust the Roman nobility and people to always obey.

The Swiss Guard were at one time the heart of an army, unlike the suited and miked modern idea of bodyguards.
 
radioman said:
Sir your knowledge of the Protestant denominations is greatly lacking.
I won’t get into it with you as it seems you’ve already made up
your mind. The damage the Catholic Church has done to the teachings
of Christ is endless. I just want you to know there are plenty of people
out here who disagree highly with your opinion.
Click to expand...
Of course they do and you too. Peace to you brother. Good luck.
 
teaser452 said:
Oh man. I have to respond. Be kind with the ban hammer.

I’m a Catholic. There are ~22 other churches that are in communion with the Church and acknowledge the primacy of the pope as Peter’s successor, the successor that Christ himself appointed.

All the other sects are rightly called Protestants. They are protesting Christ.

This being said, the Protestants don’t speak for Christ nor do their views in regards to self defense mean anything to me.

The church has had worse popes. But it’s the oldest organization in existence and will not perish before Christ returns.

Now with this all being said, as a scholar of Catholic doctrine, a student of the scripture, and a practicing Catholic, you do have an absolute right to self defense. Absolutely.

And with that being said, someone who harms you has done far more damage to their soul than they did to yours. Love your enemies. At the same time, as Christians, we have the duty and obligation to protect the weak.

I would just refer all of you to Thomas Aquinas and just war theory and everything else he wrote. He’s likely the most intelligent person who’s ever lived and is far more eloquent than me.
Click to expand...

This may earn me a vacation for straying too far into religion, but the pedo priest coverup from the previous popes and the straight up marxism from this one has led to more questioning their faith than ever before. That set of previous Catholics includes me. Not men of God.
 
JayMcB said:
There is no Christian case for gun control.
Click to expand...

Well there is the old saw that if Christ had a gun he would not have been crucified.

My godson, the Reverend, made sure all his deacons had a LTC in MA. Deacons under MA blue laws are required to supervise the collection of long firearms and secure them in the cloak room. Handguns are not required to be stored.
 
JayMcB said:
This may earn me a vacation for straying too far into religion, but the pedo priest coverup from the previous popes and the straight up marxism from this one has led to more questioning their faith than ever before. That set of previous Catholics includes me. Not men of God.
Click to expand...
You should read about what the popes did around 1000 ad. Dragging the previous dead popes out of the ground and holding excommunication trials. And then the next pope does the same thing.

Christ was very plain. The gates of Hell will not prevail against the the church that he founded before his death, resurrection and ascension.

The Chruch is made up of men. Thinking they’re all saints is just a failure to understand man and our fallen nature

That being said, protesting Christ seems like a bad side to be on.
 
I mean Old Testament Law may not be accepted by Christians as still binding but the OT makes it clear self defense and protecting others is an obligation so. Not sure what Christians use for binding legal manners outside the NT but to my recollection self defense still stands as valid. Then again many of these "churches" have become a lot more secular and left wing, turning away from their roots.
 
radioman said:
Sir your knowledge of the Protestant denominations is greatly lacking.
I won’t get into it with you as it seems you’ve already made up
your mind. The damage the Catholic Church has done to the teachings
of Christ is endless. I just want you to know there are plenty of people
out here who disagree highly with your opinion.
Click to expand...

Im not particularly religious but I read his spiel and immediately thought "That has nothing to do with it at all".

The reformation is a very important part of history- back in the day there wasnt a dividing line between church and state, church politics weren't so easily ignored and as such its pretty well documented.
 
radioman said:
Sir your knowledge of the Protestant denominations is greatly lacking.
I won’t get into it with you as it seems you’ve already made up
your mind. The damage the Catholic Church has done to the teachings
of Christ is endless. I just want you to know there are plenty of people
out here who disagree highly with your opinion.
Click to expand...
Amen to this brother.
 
I'm a non-practicing Catholic who has slowly come around to the realization that there is a global war against Christians. It is led by the left here in the US and various factors throughout the rest of the world. It seems the Communists in Asia (not the Russians, rather the Chinese), the Socialists in Europe and Muslims everywhere think it is acceptable to discriminate, displace and murder Christians the world over. The destruction here in the US of the traditional family structure, moral values, respect for life and the worship of science and technology over all things has helped to marginalize Christians and tear at the fabric of our society.

To bring this back on the OP's topic, I don't particularly care what the Pope, Cardinals, or any other Catholic (or other religious demagogue) have to say about gun control or firearms. I believe in the 2nd Amendment and the right to protect one's self and family. I'm also of the mind that it is past time for an organization like the Knights Templars of old to reform and start protecting Christian interests in the US and globally. We got close with Eric Prince and Blackwater, but he was too close with the Neocons and keeping the US global hegemony of the dollar as global reserve currency and oil traded for dollars. More a political opportunist who also happened to be Christian.

Maybe I'm getting paranoid in my middle years, but it seems to me that more and more of the US and the World looks at our beliefs and says "You have no place here". I'm certainly not one to force my beliefs on others, but the moral decay I see is hard to ignore. Guns are the last line of protection, but it will take money, political power, organization and yes, a dedicated fighting force able to project that power and influence globally while protecting Christian and their interests. Anyway, I'm sure this post will be controversial and many will think I'm crazy... then again, we live in a crazy world.
 

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