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church/religion and shooting

I am just biding my time until my parish priest says something about gun control.

I will then ask him if he knows about some small organization called the Swiss Guards. I will next ask him what they do and who they protect and what are some of the tools which they use and if they would use these tools to visit deadly force upon someone who tries to attack their protectee.

We will see how it goes after that.
 
JayMcB said:
This may earn me a vacation for straying too far into religion, but the pedo priest coverup from the previous popes and the straight up marxism from this one has led to more questioning their faith than ever before. That set of previous Catholics includes me. Not men of God.
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Why are so many people here afraid of speaking theirs minds? Shouldn’t this forum advocate speaking the non-PC language that we’re attacked with every single day?
 
Those who believe in God and gun control need to read the Old Testament. Period.

Exodus 22:2, “if a thief be found breaking into a house or undermining it, and be wounded so as to die, he that slew him shall not be guilty of blood.”
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Cipher said:
I mean Old Testament Law may not be accepted by Christians as still binding but the OT makes it clear self defense and protecting others is an obligation so. Not sure what Christians use for binding legal manners outside the NT but to my recollection self defense still stands as valid. Then again many of these "churches" have become a lot more secular and left wing, turning away from their roots.
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I think that is part of the problem. People tend to want to only focus on Jesus and the New Testament, return evil to no one, love your neighbor etc.
One passage states that "as far as it depends on you, live in peace with each other". The first line lays out the exception. It's saying don't be a trouble maker. It's not saying be a doormat. Even though a lot of the OT things don't apply even Jesus quoted from it. As you said the OT is clear about self defense and the bible also mentions God is the same and doesn't change his standards. So it's reasonable to conclude Jesus did not mean you can't defend yourself. A lot of people don't want to think. It's easier to accept whatever answer they are given.
 
Our security team carries pepper spray as well concealed carry firearms and has requested zip ties in the event an unwelcome “guest” fails to cooperate with their directive. Christians are most certainly under attack in this society.

Nehemiah 4:9
Nevertheless we made our prayer unto our God, and set a watch against them day and night, because of them
 
HerbWest said:
Why are so many people here afraid of speaking theirs minds? Shouldn’t this forum advocate speaking the non-PC language that we’re attacked with every single day?
Click to expand...

You are new here. People are trying to be polite so that interesting threads don't turn into a sh!tshow and get locked. Some people lose the ability to speak plainly without going completely off the rails. Then they get a time out. 90% of the time most topics are OK as long as people stay civil. The wild card 10% depends on if a Mod is having a bad day. ;)
 
akma said:
It's more liberal mainline Protestant Christians and the Roman Catholic Church that don't like guns. It's the born again bible believing Christians that embrace our God given rights.
The pope has spoken out against guns yet he has his own army and armed bodyguards.
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That's because Mainline and Catholic churches usually have more urban and liberal bases than Evangelicals do. So those positions are much more popular.

I'm Southern Baptist and we love guns. :)
 
OK, enough Catholic talk. [offtopic]


What are some points I can use against a non-Catholic pastor or other clergy person?

Aside from the bogus statistics and studies they use, how can I counter their other points and language?
 
The church is still trying to accomplish "Dick Control" I don't think we have to worry about them really controlling anything.............
 
teaser452 said:
Oh man. I have to respond. Be kind with the ban hammer.

I’m a Catholic. There are ~22 other churches that are in communion with the Church and acknowledge the primacy of the pope as Peter’s successor, the successor that Christ himself appointed.

All the other sects are rightly called Protestants. They are protesting Christ.

This being said, the Protestants don’t speak for Christ nor do their views in regards to self defense mean anything to me.

The church has had worse popes. But it’s the oldest organization in existence and will not perish before Christ returns.

Now with this all being said, as a scholar of Catholic doctrine, a student of the scripture, and a practicing Catholic, you do have an absolute right to self defense. Absolutely.

And with that being said, someone who harms you has done far more damage to their soul than they did to yours. Love your enemies. At the same time, as Christians, we have the duty and obligation to protect the weak.

I would just refer all of you to Thomas Aquinas and just war theory and everything else he wrote. He’s likely the most intelligent person who’s ever lived and is far more eloquent than me.
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Ah....I'm Catholic.....and will vehimently say.....your wrong.

Protestantism began during the Renaissance as a protest against the established (Roman Catholic) church. They are not protesting Christ......nice try.

I get it......your saying protesting what you believe to be the one true church that Christ started means they are protesting Christ. I still say WRONG. By the way....I'm Catholic .....but consider myself a "cafeteria" Catholic. I can walk down the line of teachings and use my own brain and say "I'll take some of that.....ah.....no thanks on that....."

From my readings the Catholic Church is definitely in favor of strict gun control......yeah......I'll skip that.
 
JayMcB said:
This may earn me a vacation for straying too far into religion, but the pedo priest coverup from the previous popes and the straight up marxism from this one has led to more questioning their faith than ever before. That set of previous Catholics includes me. Not men of God.
Click to expand...
I’m hoping neither you on I get the ban hammer. There is only one church. Please come back.
 
whacko said:
Ah....I'm Catholic.....and will vehimently say.....your wrong.

Protestantism began during the Renaissance as a protest against the established (Roman Catholic) church. They are not protesting Christ......nice try.

I get it......your saying protesting what you believe to be the one true church that Christ started means they are protesting Christ. I still say WRONG. By the way....I'm Catholic .....but consider myself a "cafeteria" Catholic. I can walk down the line of teachings and use my own brain and say "I'll take some of that.....ah.....no thanks on that....."

From my readings the Catholic Church is definitely in favor of strict gun control......yeah......I'll skip that.
Click to expand...

It’s quite obvious that you’re not
A Catholic
Nancy Pelosi
And Biden Claim to be Catholic

Like them, you are not.
 
I'm of the opinion that religion's involvement through the obligation to protect the right to self defense may be all that saves "guns" in this country.

Bring your rifle to church requirement used to BE a requirement. (And check them in the cloak room under guard to protect the church in case of assault while in session).

That day may come soon again.

I already feel that religion is the only way I will have any protections for our beliefs when my son is in middle school. That's only like 6 years away.
 
One of the chief aims of the Reformation was to emphasize a person's ability to have a personal relationship with God and reach their own conclusions about the nature of the universe without the need for interpretations from child abusers--err, I mean Roman priests.

The Reformation demonstrated that God endowed his creations with the capacity for reason, deduction, and inspiration. Protestants are not reliant upon of the pope (who some have argued is Satan's vicar on earth) or any other person to impose their conclusions on others; revelation is not limited to those who have sought for themselves the mantle of dispenser of truth.

In the end, a Protestant acknowledges that God did not make man a being incapable of forming his own opinions and directing his own actions. As such, I would place no additional weight or merit on any pastor or other figure's attempts to restrict or transgress my ability to defend myself, my family, or others. God granted us the faculty of reason, and not to exercise it, such as determining the appropriateness and necessity of protecting that which is good, would be to reject a God-given gift.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34
 
Where's that popcorn emoji?

Fervent believers (in anything) who post on a discussion board aren't interested in discussion, as a rule. They're interested in proselytizing. I've got no idea why this thread's still open.
 
teaser452 said:
I’m hoping neither you on I get the ban hammer. There is only one church. Please come back.
Click to expand...
If being Catholic means that like you.....I have to believe I'm better than any other Christian faith simply because i fully 100 percent blindly accept everything that the out of touch Catholic heirarchy spew from their mouths.....yeah....I guess I'm not Catholic. Look around at masses lately? Average age is about 60. Wonder why?!?!

But.....I'm proud to admit I have a brain.

On another topic related to Christian faith......I separate the church.....and the government. I believe that the Catholic Church has the right to refuse marriage to same sex couple's......as it doesn't fit the teaching of our faith. However.....I believe that the Catholic and other Christian churches have absolutely no right to expect the government to legislate to fit the church's beliefs of morality. A same sex marriage In the eyes of the government In no way effects the sanctity of a Christian marriage. If you think it does......you do not understand what individual freedom means.

The Catholic Church does believe in gun control....that's a fact. So....are you Catholic or are you not Catholic? Let's have an answer!
 
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Cowgirlup said:
I think that is part of the problem. People tend to want to only focus on Jesus and the New Testament, return evil to no one, love your neighbor etc.
One passage states that "as far as it depends on you, live in peace with each other". The first line lays out the exception. It's saying don't be a trouble maker. It's not saying be a doormat. Even though a lot of the OT things don't apply even Jesus quoted from it. As you said the OT is clear about self defense and the bible also mentions God is the same and doesn't change his standards. So it's reasonable to conclude Jesus did not mean you can't defend yourself. A lot of people don't want to think. It's easier to accept whatever answer they are given.
Click to expand...

I agree wholeheartedly!
 
Cowgirlup said:
You are new here. People are trying to be polite so that interesting threads don't turn into a sh!tshow and get locked. Some people lose the ability to speak plainly without going completely off the rails. Then they get a time out. 90% of the time most topics are OK as long as people stay civil. The wild card 10% depends on if a Mod is having a bad day. ;)
Click to expand...
I thought this was drgrant talking until finished reading.
 
Picton said:
...Fervent believers (in anything) who post on a discussion board aren't interested in discussion, as a rule. They're interested in proselytizing. I've got no idea why this thread's still open.
Click to expand...

I was asking a question about how to counter the discussions on twitter from the church leadership, who are supporting gun control, which I do not agree with.


fencer said:
Why bother to bring it up at all? It's your business. Are hey patting you down at Mass?

Find the 1911 in the picture below... exactly
Click to expand...

See above. The church takes offerings, and some of those wind up going to the parent body. This parent body then tries to enact gun control. I am looking for some help in arguing my (our) point(s). So far, a lot of people have discussed a different church. Not many have offered the assistance sought out here, but I did like that "Vox Populi, Vox Dei" bit, thanks.
 
I read the second article you posted. Didn't read the first one yet.

The second one reminds me of the usual "If it saves just one life" arguments. We all know criminals don't obey laws so gun control is pointless.

If you are looking to counter them from a religious standpoint I would want to know what passages they are quoting to support their opinion.
 

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