changing gun trends

[drgrant]

I dont care one way or the other what people do with their milsurps, but if I want a sporter bolt action that has modern features, I'd just buy a Ruger American or Savage Axis.

And I'm tired of all the talk about steel quality and POI shift as the barrel heats up. If that were a problem with modern budget bolt rifles it would be well known and I don't believe the steel of 100 year old Russian pipe rifles is better than what's used today.

I never knew that was an excuse i always thought it was just hardcore skinflinting. Back before things got crazy it was cheaper for some guy to sporterize a mosin than buying even an entrl level bolt gun at 4-600 bucks.

 

[M1911]

I never knew that was an excuse i always thought it was just hardcore skinflinting. Back before things got crazy it was cheaper for some guy to sporterize a mosin than buying even an entrl level bolt gun at 4-600 bucks.

And then they had a hunting rifle with a safety that only a gorilla could use…

 

[LTCRN]

I learned something about that from a Women On Target attendee I was instructing. Cute as shit, petite little gal who had never fired a gun in her life- not even BB guns nor Airsoft. She had already been given the usual speech that smaller can be harder to control, bigger kick, etc. but she really wanted to try my G43. Despite some literal shaking before the first shot, every single shot she fired was center of mass and she was mag dump gung-ho by the end of the session. Made me wonder who TF was turning our target frames into splinters when a 100% newb with a G43 can hold center of mass.

It has been said that women are better students because they put their ego aside and are more receptive to taking instruction compared to macho, macho man! I have found with female shooters, 100% honesty about what is going to happen once the trigger is squeezed goes a long way. Starting out with a .22 is a good choice and demonstrating once or a mag full helps too.

A few years back, a millennial thought it would be a good idea to use his 12 gauge on the indoor range blowing out the brand new florescent lights and light deflecting baffles.

 

[M1911]

Too many men think that because they are men that they are genetically predisposed to know how to shoot. In contrast, women realize they don’t know how to shoot and they listen to their instructor.

 

[tinhorn]

It's all gone downhill since Remington stopped making the 1858.

Hahaha--yup!

 

[tinhorn]

Made me wonder who TF was turning our target frames into splinters when a 100% newb with a G43 can hold center of mass.

Mighta been me. I can see rifle sights just fine. 3" revolver, everything's a blur. I do my best but, damn, I sure like shooting that revolver.

 

[tinhorn]

It has been said that women are better students because they put their ego aside and are more receptive to taking instruction compared to macho, macho man!

Too many men think that because they are men that they are genetically predisposed to know how to shoot. In contrast, women realize they don’t know how to shoot and they listen to their instructor.

I dunno, guys. I remember when Howie and Grace got their LTCs and went shooting at a range. Both were new shooters but it was obvious that Grace outshot Howie. Before we got "real" guns my wife and I shot laser cartridges--she had never fired a gun and I hadn't fired one in over 30 years. She was a deadeye and I needed a lot of practice. When we go to the range, she's got more bullseyes than me. Her first shot on her last three targets were within the X. Un-fricking-believable.

I think the same effect that makes women not comprehend mechanical devices or gravity might somehow make them more accurate shooters.

 

[DarthRevan]

The biggest thing in the past decade is the non enthuiast enthusiastic gun buyer, lmao. New gun owners post 2013 gun are a completely different breed than the previous decades. Before 2013 you had "people who liked guns" and "new hunters" or "both". Nowadays 80% of new gun owners are OMGWTFINEEDAGUN before they ban them all!" or "i needagun cuz zombies/defense fear porn made me". Etc.

Two wholly different ballgames between eras. The new omgwtf guys are also the ones that bought clunkers like mosin and sks, overpaid, and drove the prices up....

Yep… I’ve definitely been in the BUY IT BEFORE ITS BANNED boat for longer than I’d care to be.

 

[enbloc]

Yep… I’ve definitely been in the BUY IT BEFORE ITS BANNED boat for longer than I’d care to be.

Yes Sir. It is much harder to take it away from you than it is to prevent you from buying it...

 

[Coyote33]

It goes beyond just popularity, the work that's required to make revolvers and the declining quality of them across all manufacturers is showing that the drive just isn't there with the gun makers.

It's really something to consider as I recently saw a video from someone about the video game industry and how with all the money and technology that is available to the developers of games today, the same developers who 20 years ago were making the most popular games that even boomers who have never played a game in their life have heard of, they don't make new games anymore, they just release updated versions of the same games they made years ago with the promise of "better graphics and realism" being the only selling point. The bottom line is that when these companies have gone so long making millions off work that isn't as hard, there is no drive for them to work hard to make a product that is innovative or good.

It's not just the big name game developers that are having issues with being mediocre, even the mid tier developers who try to make new games today all they do is follow the same formula of the bigger devs in making similar games simply because they will make the most amount of profit for the least amount of effort.

I think we're seeing that with companies that were largely built on making revolvers (Ruger, S&W, Taurus) where they make more money manufacturing bland products that require less effort and the consumer laps it up not realizing that by doing so they're killing the incentive to innovate.

Smith & Wesson are coming out with metal framed M&P’s now.

Are they forged? Were the 39 and 3913 forged? Wonder how they compare. I'd prefer the 3913 in some alloy (scandium) and stainless. Basically, indestructible.

The resurgence of the .32

Wut?

LOL corrosion and gun maintenance is f****** horrendous. having guns made out of polymer gets rid of a lot of that s*** although in some cases you could argue that it's really just a side effect of the designs.

There is literally nothing better than being able to have a carry gun which just gets carried for months and months that you basically almost never have to touch or even worry about. Also for people who actually shoot under all conditions it's a much better arrangement. Get sweat all over the gun? no big deal. I had a friend on here a while ago who basically has corrosive sweat. Basically if he would carry a gun like a typical 1911 or a BHP the thing would start rusting literally within hours if he got even the smallest amount of sweat on the thing.... another huge side effect of these guns is they typically f****** a lot less than their metal counterparts with some limited exceptions just because the matter of the machine is a lot simpler. The brilliance of something like a glock or CZ P10 etc is its relative inelegance buys a lot of upsides. A great way of describing it is like the way I heard it car reviewer describe a particular SUV. "This is like automotive medicine. It's like a great washing machine or something you're not necessarily going to have an emotional attachment to a vehicle like this but the fact that it is stupidly reliable is good in its own right. " same thing could be said for something like a Glock. Yes it's ugly. Yes its boring. But they just work and there's no bullshit, no drama, no faggotry involving incessant cleanliness (unlike some 1911s which jam if you look at them funny) so on. Drop in, modular..... Parts and support..... EVERYWHERE. The same cannot be said for a shitload of other guns in that Glock price class.

&

Caring about what a IWB carry gun looks like is the stupidest thing. I never understood that.

Reliability should be #1. Always.

Comfort #2 - because if it is not comfortable you won't carry it therefore #1 won't matter.

How about a S&W revolver with alloy and titanium, and plastic grips? Can't get more "indestructible" than that!

 

[DarkJoker33]

Yep… I’ve definitely been in the BUY IT BEFORE ITS BANNED boat for longer than I’d care to be.

Yes Sir. It is much harder to take it away from you than it is to prevent you from buying it...

Its what pushed my last upper build and ar10 build.
Might try and snag a couple more lowers by next month as well.

 

[enbloc]

Its what pushed my last upper build and ar10 build.
Might try and snag a couple more lowers by next month as well.

In a way, it's pushing folks to speed up their purchases... which I'm pretty sure they (The Banners) had not intended to happen.

Kinda like Covid getting newbs to buy guns they never, ever thought they needed or wanted...

 

[T-Unit]

I never knew that was an excuse i always thought it was just hardcore skinflinting. Back before things got crazy it was cheaper for some guy to sporterize a mosin than buying even an entrl level bolt gun at 4-600 bucks.

With the uncertainty of availability of the Russian calibers like 7.62x54r, I don't see the point of buying one of the lower quality Mosin's for more than $300 because you still have to do all the work to get a non LER scope on it, which isn't something I'd want on a sporter rifle. I know some people can't spend the extra 100 bucks on a Savage Axis, but if they can and get it in a common, easily sourced caliber like .308 or .30-06, I don't see why not.

That said, I do appreciate the ease of reloading a rimmed bottleneck as headspacing is never a concern. Now, nobody ever brings that up in the defense of Mosins and other milsurp bolt actions, but if they did, .30-30 not having to be cucked with round nose bullets becomes a very different cartridge with a spitzer bullet.

Sorry, got on a tangent.

 

[DarkJoker33]

In a way, it's pushing folks to speed up their purchases... which I'm pretty sure they (The Banners) had not intended to happen.

Kinda like Covid getting newbs to buy guns they never, ever thought they needed or wanted...

Yep on both accounts.
Ill admit i was one of them when i saw all the riots happening.
I went full retard.

Im also considering something that normally wouldnt have crossed my radar.
We'll see about that one though. Theres variables afoot with it.

 

[enbloc]

I went full retard.

A Retard is just a Sage that hasn't realized it yet... ~Enbloc

 

[DarthRevan]

Yep on both accounts.
Ill admit i was one of them when i saw all the riots happening.
I went full retard.

Im also considering something that normally wouldnt have crossed my radar.
We'll see about that one though. Theres variables afoot with it.

Covid pushed me to buy plates and I’m seriously looking at Nods now.
I never had much faith in government, but man… the last six years have really gone full throttle.

 

[T-Unit]

Smith & Wesson are coming out with metal framed M&P’s now. People are moving away from plastic. Pricey. Maybe that’s why.View attachment 657808

Kahr has been making steel and polymer frame pistols since it began and Ruger was doing the P series in metal and poly frame too, so this is not a new idea, it's just not something we've seen for a while as the focus for years has been polymer frames.


It makes good business sense to offer a metal frame as all the other parts will fit, which means it's not a completely new gun and it gives the buyer more choice.

If I could get a poly frame in metal that's not made now, it'd probably be the Ruger LCP Max. Not as light, but I want less recoil.

 

[enbloc]

Covid pushed me to buy plates and I’m seriously looking at Nods now.
I never had much faith in government, but man… the last six years have really gone full throttle.

 

[Coyote33]

Okay.

I'm just puzzled why you're trying to die on some sort of hill here.

From the start, I said polymer was great for lots of people, just not for me. It's not some big crusade I'm on. I'm not advocating anything. I'm just noticing that the move to polymer is, y'know, a trend...

Honestly, I thought it was about the least debatable thing I've posted here in months. But I guess not.

As far as trends, I don't know why they have to make all the plastic guns so UGLY. Not everybody wants squared off fronts and rails. How about a gracefully curved, tapered oval trigger guard? Think PPK, but with all the goodness of what plastic brings to the table.

Same with small guns. Why the tilting barrel down to 9mm, then the fixed barrel at .380 and lower (I know, not always)?

How about Beretta come out with their Bobcat and Tomcat in plastic? (Or are they already?)

How about a plastic PPK? You'll get the reduced cost, light weight, etc.

Just trying to think of all the modern materials and processes, with the great designs and thinking from the past.

Again, why such UGLY PLASTIC GUNS, especially if it costs no more to make them nicer looking? Round those edges, drop the rails, smooth it out. Make it easy to draw, and lighter to carry.

 

[enbloc]

As far as trends, I don't know why they have to make all the plastic guns so UGLY.

 

[DarkJoker33]

Covid pushed me to buy plates and I’m seriously looking at Nods now.
I never had much faith in government, but man… the last six years have really gone full throttle.

Plates are in line with my next purchases.
Id like true nods or thermal, but im not that rich.
Ill probably snag the poors version of nods like bushnell or something. Then sionx or atn for thermal.

View attachment 658137

Ive been eyeballing that as well.
But the proper cannisters sell out as soon as they come in.

How about Beretta come out with their Bobcat and Tomcat in plastic? (Or are they already?)

Nano,pico,apx carry.

Someone did just 3d print a 92 lower recently though. Its still in beta.

 

[Broc]

I dont care one way or the other what people do with their milsurps, but if I want a sporter bolt action that has modern features, I'd just buy a Ruger American or Savage Axis.

And I'm tired of all the talk about steel quality and POI shift as the barrel heats up. If that were a problem with modern budget bolt rifles it would be well known and I don't believe the steel of 100 year old Russian pipe rifles is better than what's used today.

Please compare apples to apples.

You can't compare this thing:




To this work of art in 45/70 (my rifle):



I now use it without a scope. Let me know how well you shoot your Ruger without a scope.

Roughly 400,000 Siamese Mausers were manufactured, which means there are 399,999 you can buy.

As far as the old barrel ... f*ck that, rebarrel.

 

[Waher]

As far as trends, I don't know why they have to make all the plastic guns so UGLY. Not everybody wants squared off fronts and rails. How about a gracefully curved, tapered oval trigger guard? Think PPK, but with all the goodness of what plastic brings to the table.

Same with small guns. Why the tilting barrel down to 9mm, then the fixed barrel at .380 and lower (I know, not always)?

How about Beretta come out with their Bobcat and Tomcat in plastic? (Or are they already?)

How about a plastic PPK? You'll get the reduced cost, light weight, etc.

Just trying to think of all the modern materials and processes, with the great designs and thinking from the past.

Again, why such UGLY PLASTIC GUNS, especially if it costs no more to make them nicer looking? Round those edges, drop the rails, smooth it out. Make it easy to draw, and lighter to carry.

Some of the blocky shapes are due to strength limitations of the current generation of polymers. It’s much easier to make elegant shapes out of forged and machines steel that won’t fail from flexing.

 

[T-Unit]

Please compare apples to apples.

You can't compare this thing:
View attachment 658149



To this work of art in 45/70 (my rifle):

View attachment 658150

I now use it without a scope. Let me know how well you shoot your Ruger without a scope.

Roughly 400,000 Siamese Mausers were manufactured, which means there are 399,999 you can buy.

As far as the old barrel ... f*ck that, rebarrel.

That's a nice rifle and no, I'm not comparing it to that, I'm talking about cheap shit milsurps like certain Mosins, like Carcanos, or good rifles, but that are in non-common calibers. The one bolt milsurp from Europe I'll give a pass to is the Enfield because .303 is just boss and they're all quality, but a fukking $1000 Mauser just cuz Mauser is... no.

Not gonna say that the poly stocks and MIM bolt handles are beacons of quality, but the Axis and American are MOA-1.5 MOA capable rifles out of box with good, common to find ammo.

And this isn't so much a knock on collectors, it's those who buy milsurps because they're all about service history and mil-spec shit and have to have reasons to justify why they spent so much on a milsurp bolt gun for a shooter when there are more modern, less pricey options.

 

[Broc]

That's a nice rifle and no, I'm not comparing it to that, I'm talking about cheap shit milsurps like certain Mosins, like Carcanos, or good rifles, but that are in non-common calibers. The one bolt milsurp from Europe I'll give a pass to is the Enfield because .303 is just boss and they're all quality, but a fukking $1000 Mauser just cuz Mauser is... no.

Not gonna say that the poly stocks and MIM bolt handles are beacons of quality, but the Axis and American are MOA-1.5 MOA capable rifles out of box with good, common to find ammo.

And this isn't so much a knock on collectors, it's those who buy milsurps because they're all about service history and mil-spec shit and have to have reasons to justify why they spent so much on a milsurp bolt gun for a shooter when there are more modern, less pricey options.

Got it.

At one point I used to buy Mausers, I still have 6 or 7 in the safe that I haven't touched.

I stopped when prices went full retard.

I wanted to own one Mauser from each LATAM country that used them, but that is not happening, no way I am paying $900 for one that is not in BNIB condition.

 

[T-Unit]

View attachment 658137

Every Israeli civilian is issued, by the Israeli gov't no less, a gas mask. Why after 21 years since 9/11 the US gov't has never pushed its citizens to buy their own (forget about issueing, the US gov't can only give people money it seems) is disconcerting. IDK, I guess after Waco the Fedbois decided that being able to gas people inside buildings made it an easier incident to take control of.

The Toyko subway attack and that recent shooting in the NY subway where the shooter threw smoke grenades in shows how effective chemical weapons can be in confined spaces. What did we see used frequently during the Floyd riots? Tear gas. How are the People supposed to resist a tyrannical gov't if all they have to do to degrade our ability to fight back is launch gas canisters?

I bought carriers, hard and soft plates (all on sale btw ) a few years ago and I'm glad I did because it was after a shooting that there was talk of banning body armor and I believe NY did that.

The govt has demonstrated when it comes to people's personal defence, be it against others or the govt itself, the govt can and will ban anything, whether it's thru NFA bullshit, passing a law, or EPA regulation.

Don't think a lead ban can't happen? It can and it would cause the cost of ammunition to rise to $2 a round and we'd all be sad and depressed, yet still wouldn't do jack shit about it. Instead assclowns would be coming on this forum posting pictures of their lead ingots with big smilies because they'd have basically just won the lottery.

And that's the sad reality I've come to learn: it's that our side really only gives a fukk about their money, not rights and definitely not about resistance to oppressive tyranny.

 

[P51MA]

As far as trends, I don't know why they have to make all the plastic guns so UGLY. Not everybody wants squared off fronts and rails. How about a gracefully curved, tapered oval trigger guard? Think PPK, but with all the goodness of what plastic brings to the table.

Same with small guns. Why the tilting barrel down to 9mm, then the fixed barrel at .380 and lower (I know, not always)?

How about Beretta come out with their Bobcat and Tomcat in plastic? (Or are they already?)

How about a plastic PPK? You'll get the reduced cost, light weight, etc.

Just trying to think of all the modern materials and processes, with the great designs and thinking from the past.

Again, why such UGLY PLASTIC GUNS, especially if it costs no more to make them nicer looking? Round those edges, drop the rails, smooth it out. Make it easy to draw, and lighter to carry.

If I had to guess, they don’t sell as well because a sizable minority of people shoot with their offhand index finger on the front of the guard. Oval trigger guards suck for that. Slightly rounded are OK, but Glock does it best totally squared off and stippled on the front.

If they drop (as in get rid of?) the rails they won’t sell at all. Even though most people don’t run lights, everyone expects a rail just in case they do. It’s not like it gets in the way or anything; there’s no good reason to do it besides catering to people who really want a retro aesthetic.

I also think that what looks good in metal doesn’t necessarily translate to looking good in polymer.

 

[Mountain]

As far as trends, I don't know why they have to make all the plastic guns so UGLY. Not everybody wants squared off fronts and rails. How about a gracefully curved, tapered oval trigger guard? Think PPK, but with all the goodness of what plastic brings to the table.

Same with small guns. Why the tilting barrel down to 9mm, then the fixed barrel at .380 and lower (I know, not always)?

How about Beretta come out with their Bobcat and Tomcat in plastic? (Or are they already?)

How about a plastic PPK? You'll get the reduced cost, light weight, etc.

Just trying to think of all the modern materials and processes, with the great designs and thinking from the past.

Again, why such UGLY PLASTIC GUNS, especially if it costs no more to make them nicer looking? Round those edges, drop the rails, smooth it out. Make it easy to draw, and lighter to carry.

I always liked the looks of a PPQ. I always thought it curious that if plastic could be easily molded to any shape, why are all the tupperware guns so damn basic in shape? Ergonomics, anyone? (So says the guy with a pile of Glocks and no PPQ )

I once mistakenly thought a 'tractor gun' was a Glock, I guess because they are generally ugly and remind me of a tractor?

Silly me- a 'tractor gun' is an M1 Garand made by International Harvester. Of course I had to have one as I operated a lot of IH equipment on my grandparents' farm.

 

[Coyote33]

Nano,pico,apx carry.

This makes my point.

They already had, good, proven designs. Why not bring those same guns out in plastic, to make them lighter?

Compare apples to apples.

I always liked the looks of a PPQ. I always thought it curious that if plastic could be easily molded to any shape, why are all the tupperware guns so damn basic in shape? Ergonomics, anyone? (So says the guy with a pile of Glocks and no PPQ )

Not a bad looking gun, I guess.

I once mistakenly thought a 'tractor gun' was a Glock, I guess because they are generally ugly and remind me of a tractor?

Seems like a good comparison.

 

[EJFudd]

I always thought it curious that if plastic could be easily molded to any shape, why are all the Tupperware guns so damn basic in shape?

Just because you can mold plastic into virtually any shape doesn't necessarily mean that you should.

I once mistakenly thought a 'tractor gun' was a Glock, I guess because they are generally ugly and remind me of a tractor?

Probably not a good tractor gun here in MA just due to the artificially high cost in MA. I'm thinking more like a cheapy Taurus or a Canik.