CCW & Schools

[MaverickNH]

My Boston-based company shares a building with a Charter School. We have a common entrance but separate key-access floors. What would be the legal considerations for CCW? My company does not have a "no weapons" policy in their employee manual or other documentation. I have a non-Resident LTC-A All Purposes.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Gray area!

I'd get a legal opinion from an attorney. I wouldn't trust anything less!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The attorney will no doubt tell you that (s)he can give you his/her expert opinion as to what the law means, and what (s)he could confidently defend at your expense, however, you're not going to get a black and white answer from most lawyers on "edge conditions" in the vaguely defined MGL.

 

[Lynne]

INAL, however, it would seem to me that as long as you do not go on to their floor, entraces are used by ALL renters of said building and would be considered a "common" area. Of course, I'm using common sense, which has absolutely nothing to do with MA gun laws.

C-X? Scriv?

 

[vellnueve]

Yeah, I would think that your company's area would not count as school grounds, and by having the LTC you're exempt from the federal 1000' rule.

That said, get legal advice.

 

[MaverickNH]

Nothing obvious in FindLaw for Massachusetts. Most "Gun Free School Zone" references are to use of the Interstate Commerce bit - nobody had a gun near/in a school.

Unless the opinion included "oh, yeah, that's come up before, never made it to trial, so there's no precedent, but there shouldn't be an issue", it's not clear what a legal opinion offers.

Here's a question: are there known events where Boston police discovered persons with valid LTC-A (All Purposes) carrying, by some circumstance not in itself warranting arrest, and then arrested the persons? For instance, they stopped the wrong guy, found he was carrying, had a valid license, but arrested the guy and seized the gun anyway, and the guy had to hire a lawyer to get things cleared up.

That is, if "caught" by police practicing fully legal CCW, do you usually need a lawyer to get off the hook and get your gun back?

I don't know if there is any public knoledge of such incidents by forum members.

My idea is that if one usually needs to hire a lawyer when "caught" not breaking any laws, as Boston is a PITA on gun issues, then I'd know the risks are essentailly equivalent or worse for my issue.

 

[JonJ]

Is this building in MA? I can tell you from a practical point of view (not a lawyer) that if you carry in this area shared by the school, someone sees the firearm and calls the police, expect to be charged.

 

[dreppucci007]

Gray area!

I'd get a legal opinion from an attorney. I wouldn't trust anything less!

+1

 

[JonJ]

I think that speaking with the DA's office in the county where this building is located is a better idea. A lawyer will give you his/her opinion and defend you at a motion hearing or trial after you have been charged.

 

[MaverickNH]

I think that speaking with the DA's office in the county where this building is located is a better idea. A lawyer will give you his/her opinion and defend you at a motion hearing or trial after you have been charged.

Do they respond to anonymous questions? I'm not overly keen on revealing personal information and asking "have I been committing a felony?"

Perhaps there's where a lawyer can help...

 

[M1911]

There are plenty of gray areas in this part of the law. For example, many of the universities in the Boston area have large real estate holdings (e.g., MIT and BU). They've built commercial buildings and lease all (or most) of the buildings out to tenants. The buildings are typically managed by commercial real estate management companies.

So are those buildings "schools" or not? I paid an attorney to investigate that and he could find no precedents.

Anyone want to be the test case?

 

[MaverickNH]

There are plenty of gray areas in this part of the law. For example, many of the universities in the Boston area have large real estate holdings (e.g., MIT and BU). They've built commercial buildings and lease all (or most) of the buildings out to tenants. The buildings are typically managed by commercial real estate management companies.

So are those buildings "schools" or not? I paid an attorney to investigate that and he could find no precedents.

Anyone want to be the test case?

Interesting - I had a similar situation in Lowell, where UMASS owned the building and rented to companies, all of which were start-ups populated by mostly univeristy people.

As it turns out, one day I came in and found that many of the people in a lobby reception were wearing a sidearm. Of course, it was a Mass LEO organization having a seminar. I asked a well-reputed LEO speaker on Mass gun laws about the issue of CCW on site, and he said that while an overzealous LEO or DA might be a risk, he believed CCW was legal.

Not quite my present situation, and certainly not a "get out of jail" card, but at least some information.

If I test the case, it will be because a police report comes in about a gun at the school and they respond and shake down the whole building rather than finding the "youth" who is packing in school.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yes, a DA "may" (if they feel like it) respond to random questions. My DA is a personal friend and I posed some questions in writing to him, expecting we'd sit down and discuss it. I never expected a written response, but he gave it to one of his ADAs and I got a multi-page letter in response.

Many times the tenants do not have a clue who actually owns a building. So if it was owned by a school but not used for any school purposes (other than making money ) and not actually located on a campus, I would "expect" that one would be safe with a LTC. I lived in an apartment building in CT for three years, we had an on-site manager and the actual owner's name was intentionally (by him) hidden from tenants. Turned out that an attorney in Hartford actually owned the place, but wanted to be "invisible" from the tenants.

I was made aware (peripherally) that a Boston PO stopped someone who allegedly was CCW. Said person produced a LTC issued by his town of residence and the Boston PO told him that "it wasn't valid in Boston since it wasn't issued here"!! Sounds funny, but I wouldn't have been surprised if the Boston PO confiscated the gun and LTC and forced the hapless soul to defend himself to get them back. Boston marches to their own tunes! I've been told by a Boston gun attorney that she's had court orders for Boston PD to return guns to her clients and Boston has refused to do so (contempt of court, but unlikely the judge did more than pout at Boston PD). They use all sorts of tactics to avoid returning such personal property in hopes you'll just "go away".