Carrying a firearm under the influence of alcohol in MA

[fencer]

I don't...which is why I carry.

Me too. Every waking moment.

 

[CCW]

I had a situation the other day that got me thinking. I went out on a date recently and had about 5 beers from around 6PM until about 2AM. I drove home after that. I pretty much figured I was under the .08 limit and I felt fine to drive so I did. On the way home I passed three cops and of course I was the only car in sight at that hour. I was wondering what would have happened had I been pulled over. I know I could have passed roadside tests if I opted to take them but what do they do to determine if you're under the influence for firearms? I know under the influence isn't defined but how do they determine if you are or are not? If they request that you take roadside tests and a breathalyzer can those be refused or is there a law requiring one to submit when carrying firearms? If you do refuse are you then unsuitable? That one's basically rhetorical but just throwing it out there....

We have lots of opinions in this thread but so far nobody has even come close to attempting to answer this:

If they request that you take roadside tests and a breathalyzer can those be refused or is there a law requiring one to submit when carrying firearms?

I looked up the MGL and found nothing. Anyone?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

We have lots of opinions in this thread but so far nobody has even come close to attempting to answer this:



I looked up the MGL and found nothing. Anyone?

There is no implied consent for a BAC for someone carrying. But remember, even if you are found not guilty of carrying under the influence, the court will uphold a suitability rejection if, "despite the verdict, evidence of guilt still exists". (It has already happened to one person who was found not guilt of DUI)

 

[M1911]

I'm not aware of any law requiring you to submit to a breathalyzer while carrying.

 

[Bonesinium]

There is no implied consent for a BAC for someone carrying. But remember, even if you are found not guilty of carrying under the influence, the court will uphold a suitability rejection if, "despite the verdict, evidence of guilt still exists". (It has already happened to one person who was found not guilt of DUI)

And this is why logic and fairness have no part in the system. None. How exactly does 'evidence of guilt' exist when a not guilty verdict from a trial is exactly what is used to prove it does NOT exist?!!?!?!

I see no way that saying 'despite the verdict, evidence of guilt still exists' is anything but intentional corruption to support an agenda or proof that trials are corrupt/meaningless themselves.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

This is how I feel, drinking is one of the few reasons i wont carry.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

Carrying is one of the reasons I don't drink.

That's a real Sophie's choice for someone like me.

 

[Skylineracer329]

We have lots of opinions in this thread but so far nobody has even come close to attempting to answer this:



I looked up the MGL and found nothing. Anyone?

If you refuse the breathalyzer in MA, you're going to jail for a DUI. At which point you are screwed if you have a gun on you.

Easy solution, if you're worried about being too drunk to carry, you probably shouldn't be driving either. Not to mention if you decide to leave the gun at home and get a DUI anyways, you're losing your guns. Don't drink and drive. Easy solution.

 

[shiprec13]

If I know I'm going to have a beer at lunch or dinner I will not carry. I don't like it but the penalty makes it not worth it. For instance today my wife and I went to the Choate pub in Ipswich for lunch. I always have a nice freshly brewed Ipswich Ale there (or two) and we always sit in the bar side. Thats two reasons to not be carrying for those not counting.

 

[IrradiatedBacon]

If I know I'm going to have a beer at lunch or dinner I will not carry. I don't like it but the penalty makes it not worth it. For instance today my wife and I went to the Choate pub in Ipswich for lunch. I always have a nice freshly brewed Ipswich Ale there (or two) and we always sit in the bar side. Thats two reasons to not be carrying for those not counting.

Why is sitting bar side a reason to not carry?

I've gone out plenty of times and sat at the bar if I'm solo (even if just drinking coke).

 

[fencer]

We have lots of opinions in this thread but so far nobody has even come close to attempting to answer this:
I looked up the MGL and found nothing. Anyone?

How are they going to know you are carrying a firearm?

If they pull you over for suspicion of DUI, are you going to tell them you are carrying?

If you keep your mouth shut about carrying and they don't notice, and pass the breathalyzer, you drive away. If they notice you are carrying, you are going to jail and likely going to lose your ltc.

If you refuse the breathalyzer, they are going to book you. You are going to lose your ltc and your drivers license.

So I will try to answer your question.... basically if you are stupid enough to drink and drive while carrying, your only hope is that they don't notice you are carrying and think you are sober enough to not ask you to take the breathalyzer. Pretty bad odds.

I am glad that nothing happened when you were out drinking and driving at 2:00 am while carrying a firearm. Please continue to post your drinking while carrying experiences and questions here on this public forum. It is very entertaining.

 

[Skylineracer329]

Why is sitting bar side a reason to not carry?

I've gone out plenty of times and sat at the bar if I'm solo (even if just drinking coke).

Because some people think the police randomly go to bars and card people for their LTC. Even though it's perfectly legal to sit at a bar in MA while carrying.

Now let's stop giving the AG ideas and lock this thread.

 

[CCW]

How are they going to know you are carrying a firearm?

If they pull you over for suspicion of DUI, are you going to tell them you are carrying?

If you keep your mouth shut about carrying and they don't notice, and pass the breathalyzer, you drive away. If they notice you are carrying, you are going to jail and likely going to lose your ltc.

If you refuse the breathalyzer, they are going to book you. You are going to lose your ltc and your drivers license.

So I will try to answer your question.... basically if you are stupid enough to drink and drive while carrying, your only hope is that they don't notice you are carrying and think you are sober enough to not ask you to take the breathalyzer. Pretty bad odds.

I am glad that nothing happened when you were out drinking and driving at 2:00 am while carrying a firearm. Please continue to post your drinking while carrying experiences and questions here on this public forum. It is very entertaining.

Actually what's really entertaining here is watching all of these champions of liberty and freedom who routinely espouse what part of shall not be infringed do you not understand express their opinions of how one should bow down and relinquish their rights because they choose to enjoy a beer or two. Also, for those who actually bothered to read and were able to comprehend the OP I had 5 beers over the course of eight hours at one location. If you plug those numbers into one of those trusty BAC calculators with my body weight and etc. you get a BAC of .00

Wow...I shouldn't carry or drive under those circumstances said no reasonable person ever.

However, thanks for playing. These NES moments are pretty fun to watch.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If you keep your mouth shut about carrying and they don't notice, and pass the breathalyzer, you drive away. If they notice you are carrying, you are going to jail and likely going to lose your ltc.

There is the issue of being ordered out of the car for a field sobriety test.

Actually what's really entertaining here is watching all of these champions of liberty and freedom who routinely espouse what part of shall not be infringed do you not understand express their opinions of how one should bow down and relinquish their rights because they choose to enjoy a beer or two.

I suspect these posters were acknowledging the reality of how things work in MA, not endorsing it.

 

[300shooter]

How are they going to know you are carrying a firearm?

If they pull you over for suspicion of DUI, are you going to tell them you are carrying?

If you keep your mouth shut about carrying and they don't notice, and pass the breathalyzer, you drive away. If they notice you are carrying, you are going to jail and likely going to lose your ltc.

If you refuse the breathalyzer, they are going to book you. You are going to lose your ltc and your drivers license.

So I will try to answer your question.... basically if you are stupid enough to drink and drive while carrying, your only hope is that they don't notice you are carrying and think you are sober enough to not ask you to take the breathalyzer. Pretty bad odds.

I am glad that nothing happened when you were out drinking and driving at 2:00 am while carrying a firearm. Please continue to post your drinking while carrying experiences and questions here on this public forum. It is very entertaining.

CCW, unfortunately, not all laws are black and white. "fencer" has offered some sage-like advice. It's your life, therefore, you can decide if you can live with the worst possible outcome (as highlighted by others). Have fun, be safe, and maybe a little paranoid (after-all, we are talking about MA).

 

[fencer]

Actually what's really entertaining here is watching all of these champions of liberty and freedom who routinely espouse what part of shall not be infringed do you not understand express their opinions of how one should bow down and relinquish their rights because they choose to enjoy a beer or two. Also, for those who actually bothered to read and were able to comprehend the OP I had 5 beers over the course of eight hours at one location. If you plug those numbers into one of those trusty BAC calculators with my body weight and etc. you get a BAC of .00

Wow...I shouldn't carry or drive under those circumstances said no reasonable person ever.

However, thanks for playing. These NES moments are pretty fun to watch.

You don't mention what time you drank your last beer and that would certainly have an impact on both BAC and the smell of alcohol which most cops are pretty good at picking up.

And I agree that some NES moments are fun to watch, like newbies that want to know if cops can give them a sobriety test because they are have been drinking and carrying a firearm.
I personally am of the opinion that alcohol and firearms do not not mix, but that is my opinion and I do not think the .gov should get involved and that you should be able to have a beer or 5, as long as you are responsible. That having been said I think that there is a big difference between hanging around the house having a couple of beers with your gun on your hip and being in a car a 2:00 am. You said you drove by three cops on your way home. Everybody knows that the only people on the road at 2:00 am are the ones just leaving the bar.

That is a pretty big risk to take, but you are an adult and certainly capable of making up your own mind. But it begs the question to which I know your answer. Were you buzzed? I know you will say "No" so I have to ask, then why bother?
Please try again next week and don't be a wussy. Have 6 beers.

 

[LTCRN]

You don't mention what time you drank your last beer and that would certainly have an impact on both BAC and the smell of alcohol which most cops are pretty good at picking up.

I personally am of the opinion that alcohol and firearms do not not mix, but that is my opinion. You said you drove by three cops on your way home. Everybody knows that the only people on the road at 2:00 am are the ones just leaving the bar.

Please try again next week and don't be a wussy. Have 6 beers.

If one continues to engage in this behavior, one will eventually become a current example of case law and give more support to Bacon Hill for more infringements of our rights in this state. Leave the testing to the one's who never get convicted on charges, no not a Kennedy, but a real crash test dummy.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

This was almost certainly a case where the driver refused the BAC. The jury is not allowed to know the reason for the lack of BAC and is told to make its decision based on the available evidence.

The defense attorney can't ask "did you take a Breathalyzer" and the defendant replies no? Or do they just not put defendants on the stand?

 

[MAGG]

Carrying is one of the reasons I don't drink.

same here

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The defense attorney can't ask "did you take a Breathalyzer" and the defendant replies no? Or do they just not put defendants on the stand?

The defendant is not required to take the stand.

The courts in MA are quite clear - the fact that a breathalyzer was not taken may be admitted, but there can be no mention as to the reason why there is no breathalyzer. The jury will be told that there are may reasons a breath test may not be available, and they are to draw no inference for either side from that fact, and make a judgement on available facts.

In general, if you are below .08, refusing a BAC will make things worse. If you above .08, refusing the BAC is the smart move. The problem is that even social drinkers are very bad at knowing when they have hit this limit except, perhaps, for the person who has had a single drink.

 

[Len-2A Training]

That having been said I think that there is a big difference between hanging around the house having a couple of beers with your gun on your hip and being in a car a 2:00 am. You said you drove by three cops on your way home. Everybody knows that the only people on the road at 2:00 am are the ones just leaving the bar.

Per MGL there is NO difference between having beer with dinner at home or out at a restaurant! The risk of police involvement of course is higher out in public than in your home, but people need to understand that a SD shooting in a home invasion vs. car jacking attempt at a bar/restaurant parking lot will both undergo the same level of legal scrutiny.

As for your allegation that cops know that the only people on the road at 2AM are the ones leaving a bar, I disagree. It was a very long time ago but the following instances were true for me:

- In college I was one of 2 who stayed sober (yes I drank, but shut myself down way before I would be leaving) and usually left these parties on the Fenway ~3AM to drive ~15 miles home. Never an issue.

- When I was dating my Wife (who lived in Boston), I would frequently be leaving her Family's home at 3-4AM to drive home. Neither of us were drinkers so in most cases I had not had a drink in 4-5 hours.

YMMV!

 

[Wendell]

...Second, nothing good happens after 11 PM. Get home before then...

x2

"Don’t go to stupid places; don’t associate with stupid people; don’t do stupid things. We will add to that, be in bed by 10 o’clock." - John Farnam

 

[Len-2A Training]

Second, nothing good happens after 11 PM. Get home before then. You are far more likely to get unwanted attention from the police if you are driving around at 0-dark-30 than if you are driving around at 7 PM.

Although I'm older than you, you are really showing your age!

Remember there are lots of single guys here!

I'm sure that when you were dating your Wife you always brought her back home before 11PM, right!

Hell, even now when we go out we frequently don't get home until 11PM or later! And I've never been stopped late at night . . . just don't do anything stupid and the likelihood of getting "unwanted attention" by the police falls to close to zero!

 

[shiprec13]

Why is sitting bar side a reason to not carry?

I've gone out plenty of times and sat at the bar if I'm solo (even if just drinking coke).

Well I searched for the law and can't find anything so I maybe I'm wrong here but for some reason I was under the impression this was not legal. I saw where they mention its ok in a restaurant but does not specify BAR. Maybe it was mentioned in my BSC. Either that or I'm confusing my current research with what I read about NC as we'll be taking a trip there this summer. Either way I usually have a beer while at a bar so once again the risk is not worth it.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Well I searched for the law and can't find anything so I maybe I'm wrong here but for some reason I was under the impression this was not legal. I saw where they mention its ok in a restaurant but does not specify BAR. Maybe it was mentioned in my BSC. Either that or I'm confusing my current research with what I read about NC as we'll be taking a trip there this summer. Either way I usually have a beer while at a bar so once again the risk is not worth it.

I don't know who "THEY" are that you refer to but if you find this in MGL, I'd like a citation.

NOTHING in MGL addresses this at all OTHER than the law that makes it illegal to be UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL OR DRUGS! I used all caps because this includes LEGAL DRUGS too. I've been told by LE that if a Rx says "caution operating machinery" that you should not possess any firearms. Draconian? Yes, but this is MA after all!

 

[fencer]

- In college I was one of 2 who stayed sober (yes I drank, but shut myself down way before I would be leaving) and usually left these parties on the Fenway ~3AM to drive ~15 miles home. Never an issue.

- When I was dating my Wife (who lived in Boston), I would frequently be leaving her Family's home at 3-4AM to drive home. Neither of us were drinkers so in most cases I had not had a drink in 4-5 hours.

YMMV!

About how long ago was that? What year did you graduate from college?

 

[M1911]

Although I'm older than you, you are really showing your age!

Remember there are lots of single guys here!

I'm sure that when you were dating your Wife you always brought her back home before 11PM, right!

Actually, yes, we did usually get back before 11 PM.

Did I stay out later when I was young and stupid? I sure did. And you know what? It was stupid and I'm lucky that nothing bad happened.

 

[Len-2A Training]

About how long ago was that? What year did you graduate from college?

1970. I did say a long time ago!

Actually, yes, we did usually get back before 11 PM.

Did I stay out later when I was young and stupid? I sure did. And you know what? It was stupid and I'm lucky that nothing bad happened.

Sorry to hear that!

When I was dating my Wife there was a famous "parking" place approx. where 2000 Comm Ave was built (by BC). One early morning a Boston PO rolled up on us, insisted that it was 5AM (it was only ~3AM) and tried to roust us. I corrected him on the time and offered to buy him coffee if he came back at 5AM and we were still there. He never carded us, he just left and we had a good chuckle. I will tell you that I did what I did in a respectful manner.

When I was a PO, we had orders to roust everyone we found "parking" anywhere in town and did so. I never asked for ID, but always ran the plates. Nowadays in my town if they see you walking anywhere they will demand your ID and run it, not just your plates (even if parked and out of the car)!

 

[M1911]

Len, we had no need to go parking when we were dating. She had her own apartment and I had shared a house with a roommate.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Len, we had no need to go parking when we were dating. She had her own apartment and I had shared a house with a roommate.

OK in that case! My Wife lived in a girls-only dorm at NU with ridiculously strict rules (IIRC 9PM curfew on Sunday nights). I convinced her to move back home (Boston) the following quarter.

 

[mark056]

Len, we had no need to go parking when we were dating. She had her own apartment and I had shared a house with a roommate.

I am sure you love your wife dearly and that she is a lovely and adorable person, but I'm willing to bet you wish there were still times that she had her own apartment and you still shared a house with a roommate for probably much different reasons today ( she probably wishes the same thing for you sometimes too, I'll wager)