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Building a SBR... Is it worth the hastle?

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groundscrapers

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So I am looking to build another AR variant and the thought of the SBR has been tossed around a little. I am sure I can build a VERY solid one on a budget of $1000 or less including the $200 stamp. For those of you with them, is it a bitch to deal with the batfe's paper work for things like crossing state lines, etc... What have you found to be the biggest pain? Is it worth it?
 
Batfe is the easy part. (5320s are no big deal)

Getting a signoff, a trust/Corp/llc is the bitch part.

Waiting also sucks.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
Batfe is the easy part. (5320s are no big deal)

Getting a signoff, a trust/Corp/llc is the bitch part.

Waiting also sucks.

-Mike
Click to expand...

I wasn't going to go the route of the trust but just setup a meeting with the local C.O.P. and have him sign off. Hes a very reasonable and fair man.
 
groundscrapers said:
I wasn't going to go the route of the trust but just setup a meeting with the local C.O.P. and have him sign off. Hes a very reasonable and fair man.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that should anything happen to you and it's not in an NFA trust, the ATF will come and take it away from your next of kin. Without any compensation.

Edit:
Apparently I'm wrong. See later posts. I would still think a NFA trust would be easier all around though.
 
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exodious said:
Keep in mind that should anything happen to you and it's not in an NFA trust, the ATF will come and take it away from your next of kin. Without any compensation.
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Thats a bigtime fail.

So I would then be adding the expense of a NFA trust into the mix.
 
groundscrapers said:
Thats a bigtime fail.

So I would then be adding the expense of a NFA trust into the mix.
Click to expand...

From what I've read, supposedly they are supposed to allow for a "reasonable" amount of time for a spouse, etc. that is willed the items to apply for a transfer, but I've heard stories about the ATF showing up a couple weeks after someone's death to seize items.

Edit:
Apparently I'm wrong. See later posts. I have heard stories about that happening, though. Maybe they're just stories, maybe not.
 
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exodious said:
Keep in mind that should anything happen to you and it's not in an NFA trust, the ATF will come and take it away from your next of kin. Without any compensation.
Click to expand...

SHUT THE F UP! NO SERIOUSLY...Do not post bull$hit, this is why people don't understand NFA...What you post is pure 100% BS period!

#1 when you die ATF won't know....
#2 when you die it your NFA transfers out TAX FREE on a FORM 5
 
securityboy said:
SHUT THE F UP! NO SERIOUSLY...Do not post bull$hit, this is why people don't understand NFA...What you post is pure 100% BS period!

#1 when you die ATF won't know....
#2 when you die it your NFA transfers out TAX FREE on a FORM 5
Click to expand...

Do you really trust the ATF not to F with you?
 
securityboy said:
So that is some how an excuse for posting BS??? And yes I do trust the set out FORM 5 hier process which has been successfully used for the past 80+/- years will work when I pass and my kids get my MG'S and other NFA toys...
Click to expand...

Well, my apologies to the OP then.

I, personally, wouldn't trust the ATF, especially not under an administration like we have now.
 
Question, can I buy an complete SBR upper (or barrel) off a website and have it shipped to me without filling out the forms and then once I fill out the forms assemble the rifle? It would be awesome to be able to buy the upper, throw it into one of those tube that you bury in the ground and when TSHTF go dig it up cause if TSHTF, no one care about the .govs BS rules anymore.
 
SBR's are well worth your investment and time if you enjoy shooting, it is a ball to walk up to the line and start blasting away and the folks that have an interest in unique stuff come up and start asking questions, you get to make some new friends real quick. Remember, when you shorten the barrel from say a 16 or 20 on an AR to 10.5 or 11.5 inches, it will take away accuracy on the other end. SBR's have a place and purpose, but they are fun to shoot. Even an 7.5 Kitty Kat upper has its place, but man, that is one way to make an AR a 200 yd gun, or less. I wouldn't know about AK's, were not allowed to play with things like that in CT.
Oh, don't order an upper if you have a lower ready to go unless you have your paperwork signed off and stamp in hand. ATF has been known to hammer people for, what's the term, some crap with intent because you have the upper and the means to mate it to a lower, there are people sitting in 64 sq. ft. for a couple years for doing this.
 
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bullseye said:
SBR's are well worth your investment and time if you enjoy shooting, it is a ball to walk up to the line and start blasting away and the folks that have an interest in unique stuff come up and start asking questions, you get to make some new friends real quick. Remember, when you shorten the barrel from say a 16 or 20 on an AR to 10.5 or 11.5 inches, it will take away accuracy on the other end. SBR's have a place and purpose, but they are fun to shoot. Even an 7.5 Kitty Kat upper has its place, but man, that is one way to make an AR a 200 yd gun, or less. I wouldn't know about AK's, were not allowed to play with things like that in CT.
Oh, don't order an upper if you have a lower ready to go unless you have your paperwork signed off and stamp in hand. ATF has been known to hammer people for, what's the term, some crap with intent because you have the upper and the means to mate it to a lower, there are people sitting in 64 sq. ft. for a couple years for doing this.
Click to expand...


Constructive intent is the verbiage(garbage)
 
Is a 7.5" kitty kat upper able to be put on a "rifle" lower or does it have to go on a "pistol" lower? The reason I ask is because I am in process of waiting and waiting for my approvement signature..... And I'm debating on the 7.5" or a 10.5" barrel for it. Shortest OAL is what is intended.

(didnt mean to thread jack)


Thanks for the help
 
groundscrapers said:
I wasn't going to go the route of the trust but just setup a meeting with the local C.O.P. and have him sign off. Hes a very reasonable and fair man.
Click to expand...

Trusts/Corps have a lot of advantages. Namely, if done right, it allows for individuals other than just yourself to legally possess your NFA items- which can be a bigger advantage than even the avoiding CLEO signoff thing is. Say for example, you have a close, trusted friend- by adding him to the trust in the correct manner, he would be able to lawfully borrow or possess your SBR without you being in attendance.

BTW, with 5320s a lot of guys just file a flurry of them every new year, to cover the states they will probably travel to with their NFA items. There is no processing fee, and the approval lasts for a year. The only cost is postage and some paper printouts. Approval is easily granted for free states like NH, ME, and VT (with the exception of suppressors in VT, but you don't have to file a 5320 on a can anyways. )

-Mike
 
bigmanfugitive said:
Is a 7.5" kitty kat upper able to be put on a "rifle" lower or does it have to go on a "pistol" lower?
Click to expand...

None of that matters with an SBR. In either case you get a rifle lower, get it engraved, get the stamp, and put whatever you want on it. (although one thing I'm not clear on is whether an SBR "must" have a stock or not, but it's kinda stupid to not have one, anyways, if you are paying for the ability to have one. ) Another thing which isn't clear to me is what the deal is with multiple short uppers and one lower, and how you have to disclose that to BATFE, or not. Every source I look at, the procedure for doing this seems to change. Securityboy or someone more versed in SBRs will probably know what the real deal with this sub-issue is.

-Mike
 
I know it has probably been beat do death, and I've read both sides of the argument, but has there been any definitive conclusion on whether SBRs are bound by the MA AWB? Please excuse me if I missed a debate or conclusion thread somewhere along the way. From what I read, there is a pretty compelling argument that they are not, but of course, IANAL.

Mike
 
crazymjb said:
I know it has probably been beat do death, and I've read both sides of the argument, but has there been any definitive conclusion on whether SBRs are bound by the MA AWB? Please excuse me if I missed a debate or conclusion thread somewhere along the way. From what I read, there is a pretty compelling argument that they are not, but of course, IANAL.

Mike
Click to expand...

I think it's not convincing that they're exempt, and that it likely wouldn't matter either way to someone who wanted to find something to charge.

I don't think there's a consensus.

EDIT: Forgot a negative, which reversed my opinion!
 
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TheRoland said:
I think it's convincing that they're not, but that it likely wouldn't matter to someone who wanted to find something to charge.
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Yup...

There's plenty of convincing arguments to the letter of the law, particularly WRT to NFA that fall into this category.

The MA SJC is a kangaroo court that "does not follow the jurisprudence of the Supreme Court" per its justices. They legislate from the bench, they push agendas, etc... So, its always back to the "do you want to be a testcase?" Until or unless someone already has...

I wouldn't use AWB to justify an SBR. I would do it "because you can" and it makes you happy...
 
Oh you could definitely be charged, but the way the law is written semantically you are not in "violation." Even arguing the spirit of the law would be tough, since an SBR in and of itself is made under a special permission. Add to that unless you go the trust route (as I understand it) you had LEO sign off on that specific project... But if someone had a bone to pick I'm sure they could drag you through the mud and empty your pockets a bit, but they've done that in other states with completely compliant rifles too.

Basically IF they charged you, and IF the DA pursued charges, and those are big IFs, I think a good lawyer could get you off, after which I'm sure they'd change the law. So if you have SBRs in MA, take pictures of them next to a local paper, and register them with the date in case they do change something, at least that is what I would do.

Mike
 
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I spoke with a shop that told me because the barrel was shorter then 16" it didn't fit the MA definition of a rifle, and there fore not bound by the AWB. Then I spoke with an NFA attorney about setting up a trust, and brought that question up. I could tell he had been asked that question 5 times a day everyday by the canned answer I got. He told me that is a loose interpretation of the law that more then likely wouldn't hold in court. That was enough for me to drop the fantasy.
 
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No lawyer is going to tell you it is ok to go ahead and test it, lawyers tend to go by better safe than sorry, because they have seen the crap that the .gov will pull, and many served as public prosecutors or defenders at one point or another.

Mike
 
This is true, but I intend to leave MA sooner then later, so I will wait to build my go fast gun until I am breathing free-er air.
 

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