Breaking: ATF has sized some of Larry Vickers' collection

[MaverickNH]

The Gun Influencer Who Used Small-Town Cops to Import Machine Guns

Larry Vickers, whose gun videos get millions of views on YouTube, pleaded guilty last year for his role in a conspiracy to illegally acquire machine guns.

www.wsj.com

”The government hasn’t presented any evidence in the Vickers case that the guns ended up being used in violent crime. But federal prosecutors say their effort to reduce gun violence includes cracking down on illegal gun trafficking and possession.”

The old “others have used guns like these to commit violent crimes” prosecution again… Who’s on trial - criminals or guns?

 

[Tartakovsky]

The Gun Influencer Who Used Small-Town Cops to Import Machine Guns

Larry Vickers, whose gun videos get millions of views on YouTube, pleaded guilty last year for his role in a conspiracy to illegally acquire machine guns.

www.wsj.com

”The government hasn’t presented any evidence in the Vickers case that the guns ended up being used in violent crime. But federal prosecutors say their effort to reduce gun violence includes cracking down on illegal gun trafficking and possession.”

The old “others have used guns like these to commit violent crimes” prosecution again… Who’s on trial - criminals or guns?

Actually a decently-written article for a change. They really got egregious with the demo letter nonsense.

 

[xtry51]

Imagine allowing the government to take machine guns from you after jumping through hoops and paying them for your licensing.

 

[Tartakovsky]

Imagine allowing the government to take machine guns from you after jumping through hoops and paying them for your licensing.

“Allowing” lol. He shouldn’t have gotten caught illegally importing and taking possession of machine guns, specifically an AN-94 from Russia. He was stupid/arrogant and is paying for it. He and his sheriff buddy should be in jail. We would be and he doesn’t get special treatment. He knew it was illegal and did it anyway. Yes, NFA, GCA and FOPA are all unconstitutional, but as long as they stand, you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

 

[drgrant]

Imagine allowing the government to take machine guns from you after jumping through hoops and paying them for your licensing.

Well, admittedly in his case he apparently half assed the hoops part.

 

[Tartakovsky]

Well, admittedly in his case he apparently half assed the hoops part.

Shouldn’t have memorialized his fraud in an easily searched database. That’s just plain stupid. Anything you don’t want used against you later, don’t record.

 

[drgrant]

Shouldn’t have memorialized his fraud in an easily searched database. That’s just plain stupid. Anything you don’t want used against you later, don’t record.

Using a demo as a justification to obtain something and then never actually running the demo doesn't help.

 

[Agnotology]

Using a demo as a justification to obtain something and then never actually running the demo doesn't help.

YT Video Format demo

 

[straightshooterjake]

The Gun Influencer Who Used Small-Town Cops to Import Machine Guns

Larry Vickers, whose gun videos get millions of views on YouTube, pleaded guilty last year for his role in a conspiracy to illegally acquire machine guns.

www.wsj.com

”The government hasn’t presented any evidence in the Vickers case that the guns ended up being used in violent crime. But federal prosecutors say their effort to reduce gun violence includes cracking down on illegal gun trafficking and possession.”

The old “others have used guns like these to commit violent crimes” prosecution again… Who’s on trial - criminals or guns?

Thanks for this article. It is very helpful for understanding this case.

I had assumed this case was about mishandling of dealer sample machine guns. I have never dealt with machine guns, but I do understand there is important paperwork and rules about dealer samples. Still, I had thought "Well, people who are federally licensed to manufacture machine guns, have machine guns, what's the big deal?"

The article alleges that some machine guns have been found in the possession of wealthy collectors who are not FFL's. That allegation goes far beyond the issue of FFL holders having machine guns without any real interest from law enforcement. As the case moves forward, I will be watching to see if there is any evidence for these additional allegations.

 

[M1911]

The Gun Influencer Who Used Small-Town Cops to Import Machine Guns

Larry Vickers, whose gun videos get millions of views on YouTube, pleaded guilty last year for his role in a conspiracy to illegally acquire machine guns.

www.wsj.com

”The government hasn’t presented any evidence in the Vickers case that the guns ended up being used in violent crime. But federal prosecutors say their effort to reduce gun violence includes cracking down on illegal gun trafficking and possession.”

The old “others have used guns like these to commit violent crimes” prosecution again… Who’s on trial - criminals or guns?

It doesn’t matter. Violence was not required to commit this crime. The law only allows dealer samples to be acquired if they are being acquired in order to perform a bona fide demonstration for a police department. In this case, the two tiny police departments had no need for such machine guns, and they were solicited for the demo letters by Vickers, not the other way around, and no demonstration ever took place.

While I agree that the NFA and its 1986 expansion are ridiculous, the reality is that they are currently in force and Vickers and the police chiefs conspired to violate that law (and they left paper and electronic evidence).

I admire Larry Vickers for his service to our nation, but that doesn’t change the fact that he violated the law and he left damning evidence of that violation. As others have said above, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[hunt4riches]

Thanks for this article. It is very helpful for understanding this case.

I had assumed this case was about mishandling of dealer sample machine guns. I have never dealt with machine guns, but I do understand there is important paperwork and rules about dealer samples. Still, I had thought "Well, people who are federally licensed to manufacture machine guns, have machine guns, what's the big deal?"

The article alleges that some machine guns have been found in the possession of wealthy collectors who are not FFL's. That allegation goes far beyond the issue of FFL holders having machine guns without any real interest from law enforcement. As the case moves forward, I will be watching to see if there is any evidence for these additional allegations.

They're almost not worth the trouble.
--Shooting them in obscure rural locations often prompts visits from law enforcement.
--Parts can be expensive.
--They've become so expensive that shooting them is a financial liability if you blow one up with bad ammo.
--They are more expensive per-hour to operate as a large cabin private jet.

 

[drgrant]

Thanks for this article. It is very helpful for understanding this case.

I had assumed this case was about mishandling of dealer sample machine guns. I have never dealt with machine guns, but I do understand there is important paperwork and rules about dealer samples. Still, I had thought "Well, people who are federally licensed to manufacture machine guns, have machine guns, what's the big deal?"

The article alleges that some machine guns have been found in the possession of wealthy collectors who are not FFL's. That allegation goes far beyond the issue of FFL holders having machine guns without any real interest from law enforcement. As the case moves forward, I will be watching to see if there is any evidence for these additional allegations.

If you read into the lines though none of that stuff matters because this whole thing was tripped off by somebody actually investigating his filings and when he didn't do things correctly then all of the frosting comes after. The turd frosting matters very little.

 

[DJBrad]

And yet it’s always “laws for thee, but none for me.”


How did Operation Fast and Furious work out?

 

[paul73]

was not required to commit this crime

i will never agree with a hypothesis for the government to be able to declare an act of any harmless peaceful possession to be a 'crime'. it is not a crime to be an owner of any object.
and even worse it gets now for the government to be allowed to declare a mere 'intent' to be classified as a crime as well, with no true burden to provide any solid proof.

 

[M1911]

And yet it’s always “laws for thee, but none for me.”


How did Operation Fast and Furious work out?

That’s immaterial. “But all the other kids are doing it” didn’t work with our mom when we were kids and won’t work in court either.

The law, as stupid as it is, is clear, Vickers and the chiefs clearly broke the law, and they left clear chain of evidence.

 

[paul73]

The law, as stupid as it is, is clear

when laws get out of control - it is usually the time to swap out all the lawmen.

 

[M1911]

i will never agree with a hypothesis for the government to be able to declare an act of any harmless peaceful possession to be a 'crime'. it is not a crime to be an owner of any object.
and even worse it gets now for the government to be allowed to declare a mere 'intent' to be classified as a crime as well, with no true burden to provide any solid proof.

You can argue that the law is unjust and should be changed. I won’t disagree with you on that. But the reality is that as of now the law stands and Vickers clearly and knowingly broke it.

 

[M1911]

when laws get out of control - it is usually the time to swap out all the lawmen.

No. The issue is not the enforcement of that law or the men and women enforcing the law. The issue is that the law itself should be changed and that is done either in the legislature or the courts.

 

[DJBrad]

That’s immaterial. “But all the other kids are doing it” didn’t work with our mom when we were kids and won’t work in court either.

The law, as stupid as it is, is clear, Vickers and the chiefs clearly broke the law, and they left clear chain of evidence.

Please don’t bloviate about that being immaterial friend. The ATF/Gov clearly breaks laws and is never held accountable.

 

[M1911]

Please don’t bloviate about that being immaterial friend. The ATF/Gov clearly breaks laws and is never held accountable.

Which, again, is simply immaterial. You are making the “but everyone else is doing it“ argument, which holds no legal water.

I’m not saying that the government and its agents shouldn’t be held responsible for their crimes — they should. But the fact that government agents broke the law in unrelated circumstances doesn't change the fact that Vickers knowingly broke the law.

Vickers knew what the law was. He conspired to knowingly break that law and he left a trail of evidence. Now he is paying the price.

 

[paul73]

issue is not the enforcement of that law or the men and women enforcing the law

in the world where laws go back hundreds of years and contradict one another the issue is always the selective enforcement.

 

[M1911]

in the world where laws go back hundreds of years and contradict one another the issue is always the selective enforcement.

Again, that is entirely a separate issue. If you knowingly break the law, get caught, and then say “but they broke the law too and weren’t punished” that won’t help you in a court of law.

Vickers knew what the law was. He knew what he was doing was illegal. He did it anyways. He got caught. I respect him for his service. I feel terrible for him given his serious illness. But he made bad choices and did this to himself.

 

[Dench]

“Allowing” lol. He shouldn’t have gotten caught illegally importing and taking possession of machine guns, specifically an AN-94 from Russia. He was stupid/arrogant and is paying for it. He and his sheriff buddy should be in jail. We would be and he doesn’t get special treatment. He knew it was illegal and did it anyway. Yes, NFA, GCA and FOPA are all unconstitutional, but as long as they stand, you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

Whose the victim? Why waste this amount of resources on what's no more than a white collar crime?

Why be ok with unconstitutional law being applied to anyone?

 

[DJBrad]

Which, again, is simply immaterial. You are making the “but everyone else is doing it“ argument, which holds no legal water.

I’m not saying that the government and its agents shouldn’t be held responsible for their crimes — they should. But the fact that government agents broke the law in unrelated circumstances doesn't change the fact that Vickers knowingly broke the law.

Vickers knew what the law was. He conspired to knowingly break that law and he left a trail of evidence.

This is not a case law argument nor is it a post to review evidence for a grand jury indictment.

We will firmly disagree on the fact the alphabet agencies consistently and knowingly break laws that they themselves are never held accountable for, when they break them. That’s material and germane to the thread. We are not talking about presenting an indictment here.


While you will say, “Oh that GCA and ‘86 ban are ridiculous!”


I will say they need to be repealed. That’s the difference between you and I.

 

[M1911]

We will firmly disagree on the fact the alphabet agencies consistently and knowingly break laws that they themselves are never held accountable for, when they break them.

We don’t disagree on that. The ATF does, in fact, repeatedly break the law.

That’s material and germane to the thread. We are not talking about presenting an indictment here.

I didn’t say it was not germane to the thread. I said it is not germane to Vickers’ case. Vickers broke the law. There is irrefutable evidence supporting that. The fact that ATF agents broke similar laws in unrelated incidents doesn’t change the facts of this case, and the facts of this case are what would have been admissible in court if Vickers had plead not guilty.

I will say they need to be repealed. That’s the difference between you and I.

Wow. How in the HELL did you make that assumption? Seriously, how in the HELL did you jump to the conclusion that I support any of those laws? I never wrote nor implied anything like that.

Of course I agree that the NFA, the GCA of 1968, and the 1986 machine gun laws should all be repealed.

But they haven’t been repealed. Vickers broke knowingly the laws which are currently in effect.

 

[Boghog1]

It wouldn't be so bad if they prosecuted the kids with Wish Switches with the same vigor.

 

[M1911]

It wouldn't be so bad if they prosecuted the kids with Wish Swites with the same vigor.

Wish Swites? Wtf is that?

 

[headednorth]

It wouldn't be so bad if they prosecuted the kids with Wish Swites with the same vigor.

Rayciss!

 

[Boghog1]

Wish Swites? Wtf is that?

Auto correct strikes again, glock switches purchased from Wish.com

 

[DJBrad]

We don’t disagree on that. The ATF does, in fact, repeatedly break the law.

I didn’t say it was not germane to the thread. I said it is not germane to Vickers’ case. Vickers broke the law. There is irrefutable evidence supporting that. The fact that ATF agents broke similar laws in unrelated incidents doesn’t change the facts of this case, and the facts of this case are what would have been admissible in court if Vickers had plead not guilty.

Wow. How in the HELL did you make that assumption? Seriously, how in the HELL did you jump to the conclusion that I support any of those laws? I never wrote nor implied anything like that.

Of course I agree that the NFA, the GCA of 1968, and the 1986 machine gun laws should all be repealed.

But they haven’t been repealed. Vickers broke knowingly the laws which are currently in effect.

Your post was edited above for something that I did not agree with but your follow up post I will agree with. Carry on. I’m also not saying Vickers didn’t psgwsp.