Breaking: ATF has sized some of Larry Vickers' collection

[xtry51]

Because this is what the government does. It attacks the weak fringes in an attempt to continually consolidate more power.

 

[Cap'n Mike]

The Miller case failed because Miller was dead
So, why put the guy through a trial then appeals if he has cancer - If the guy isn't in a position to finish the fight then that puts us in the position of another Miller where the appellant is gone and the courts can feel free to screw everyone left.

Alive or dead, the outcome of MILLER was preordaine. Nobody showed up to argue his side, even though he hadnt been murdered yet. That was a feature not a bug. Miller died after oral arguments but before the decision was announced.
But I agree that LAVs cancer is enough for him to want to sit this one out.

 

[Mesatchornug]

The Miller case failed because Miller was dead
So, why put the guy through a trial then appeals if he has cancer - If the guy isn't in a position to finish the fight then that puts us in the position of another Miller where the appellant is gone and the courts can feel free to screw everyone left.

...Miller was dead, and his attorney couldn't be bothered to show up. I would like to believe someone like Larossier or Gura wouldn't roll over the same way.

Sadly, we'll never know.

 

[xtry51]

...Miller was dead, and his attorney couldn't be bothered to show up. I would like to believe someone like Larossier or Gura wouldn't roll over the same way.

Sadly, we'll never know.

These facts are exactly why the Miller decision is a complete farce and should be relitigated now that Bruen clearly changes the threshold. It's ripe for SCOTUS to act.

SCOTUS won't of course because they are cowards.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The Miller case failed because Miller was dead
So, why put the guy through a trial then appeals if he has cancer - If the guy isn't in a position to finish the fight then that puts us in the position of another Miller where the appellant is gone and the courts can feel free to screw everyone left.

To slam the door shut on the "my buddy the chief will request a demo of a gun his department has no actual interest in buying" loophole.

 

[Daddy Mac]

Springfield Armory has discontinued the 1911 Vickers Tactical Master Class in .45 ACP. I always enjoyed Larry's content.

 

[Bonesinium]

Way to selectively quote half my comment. As I said, NFA, GCA and FOPA are the law, and I don't agree with them, believe that they're unconstitutional, but its still the law, and has been since 1986 and Vickers knowingly and willfully broke it. He shouldn't get special treatment and neither should the law enforcement folks that are complicit.

Your rebuttal only re-enforces my point. You think that not being punished for violating an admittedly unconstitutional law as being special treatment. I think of not being punished for violating an unconstitutional right as normal treatment and being punished as abusive and illegal. It's a basic difference of philosophy. Yours is, as I said, literally the worst possible take.

Anyone who cares about the constitution wouldn't say people SHOULD BE IN JAIL for violating an unconstitutional statute.

 

[drgrant]

Springfield Armory has discontinued the 1911 Vickers Tactical Master Class in .45 ACP. I always enjoyed Larry's content.

That gun was a limited run anyways I don't think that was a regular production item... at least not if it's the one I'm thinking of that I have. That was like a collab between SA, Wilson, and some other distributor (Lipseys?)

 

[Dennis in MA]

I've been doing some thinking on Vickers in the last 24 hours. I think he should hang. (OK, 5 years. But. . . .)

Here's why:

Forget if the laws he broke are just or not or are appropriate or not. He KNEW they were there. He's got enough resources that he could have flown to XYZ'i'stan and shot whatever the hell he wanted there.

Could he take it home to Murrica? No. It was against the law.

So he devised a way to get the guns he wanted in the US. And he used his cache and influence to pressure others to do his dirty work. If you or me walked into a one-cop PD in EBF, Oklahoma, do you think they'd sign a "hey, we need to test this bizarre gun" letter?

Hell no. Vickers was respected and he traded on that respect.

And it's going to mean jail time for those he influenced. People are going to go to jail because Larry Expert Vickers said, "No. Just write this letter. It's no big deal. It's just a formality." And it wasn't.

I think Larry figured that out in the end and pled guilty before the pile-on began. Smart move by him. Because now everyone else can't trade on him for lower sentences. Which also is a sort of scummy move for the guy at the TOP of the pyramid.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

So he devised a way to get the guns he wanted in the US. And he used his cache and influence to pressure others to do his dirty work. If you or me walked into a one-cop PD in EBF, Oklahoma, do you think they'd sign a "hey, we need to test this bizarre gun" letter?

One local police sgt (now retired) in a very green town told me his department regularly received letters from small scale FFL/SOTs seeking demo letters, and they didn't even bother to respond since they knew the game they were playing.

 

[drgrant]

I've been doing some thinking on Vickers in the last 24 hours. I think he should hang. (OK, 5 years. But. . . .)

Here's why:

Forget if the laws he broke are just or not or are appropriate or not. He KNEW they were there. He's got enough resources that he could have flown to XYZ'i'stan and shot whatever the hell he wanted there.

Could he take it home to Murrica? No. It was against the law.

So he devised a way to get the guns he wanted in the US. And he used his cache and influence to pressure others to do his dirty work. If you or me walked into a one-cop PD in EBF, Oklahoma, do you think they'd sign a "hey, we need to test this bizarre gun" letter?

Hell no. Vickers was respected and he traded on that respect.

And it's going to mean jail time for those he influenced. People are going to go to jail because Larry Expert Vickers said, "No. Just write this letter. It's no big deal. It's just a formality." And it wasn't.

I think Larry figured that out in the end and pled guilty before the pile-on began. Smart move by him. Because now everyone else can't trade on him for lower sentences. Which also is a sort of scummy move for the guy at the TOP of the pyramid.

Is he stupid for lazily ignoring the lawr? Yes. He could have easily gotten what he wanted while being inside compliance guiderails. Tons of 07s do this every day in the US.

Morally nobody should be going to jail for this shit though. Basically you're suggesting someone go to jail for a victimless paper crime. Which is absolutely retarded.

 

[drgrant]

One local police sgt (now retired) in a very green town told me his department regularly received letters from small scale FFL/SOTs seeking demo letters, and they didn't even bother to respond since they knew the game they were playing.

Lol well that's no different than dry begging. Anyone with a brain isn't going to cotton to that.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I wonder what hack the Las Vegas machine gun rental places use. Pre-86 transferrable; Pre-86 dealer samples; 07/SOT/ITAR manufacturer; other. And even then, how do they get around the fact that even a temporary handling by someone not either the registered owner; employee of the licensee; or responsible party on a trust constitutes a "transfer" under federal law? (Is there a federal exemption for the temporary transfer of a MG while under the supervision of the registered owner?)

 

[Cap'n Mike]

I wonder what hack the Las Vegas machine gun rental places use. Pre-86 transferrable; Pre-86 dealer samples; 07/SOT/ITAR manufacturer; other. And even then, how do they get around the fact that even a temporary handling by someone not either the registered owner; employee of the licensee; or responsible party on a trust constitutes a "transfer" under federal law? (Is there a federal exemption for the temporary transfer of a MG while under the supervision of the registered owner?)

Lots of gun stores rent machine guns. I always assumed there was a loophole?

 

[drgrant]

I wonder what hack the Las Vegas machine gun rental places use. Pre-86 transferrable; Pre-86 dealer samples; 07/SOT/ITAR manufacturer; other. And even then, how do they get around the fact that even a temporary handling by someone not either the registered owner; employee of the licensee; or responsible party on a trust constitutes a "transfer" under federal law? (Is there a federal exemption for the temporary transfer of a MG while under the supervision of the registered owner?)

You mean every machine gun rental range not just the ones in Vegas the ones in Vegas are probably actually closer to the guns. Like at Battlefield, basically you get an RO that hangs out with you.

Also I've never heard of this interpretation that temporary use was actually a transfer of a firearm. If that was the case, then you wouldn't be able to rent Title 1 guns to people either.

 

[KBCraig]

Lots of gun stores rent machine guns. I always assumed there was a loophole?

It's not a loophole. It's not a transfer.

 

[Mesatchornug]

It's not a loophole. It's not a transfer.

It sounds an awful lot like MA's updated interpretation after the Westfield incident

 

[Reptile]

If LAV got a 07 FFL he could have legally imported machine guns, right?

 

[Mesatchornug]

If LAV got a 07 FFL he could have legally imported machine guns, right?

He had an 07, that's how he got them.