Boston "Assault Weapons Ban" ... n00b content

[Len-2A Training]

Hows that in violation of BATFE regs? If someone lives in Boston it doesnt mean they dont have some other lawful place to store the "AW."

Mike

BATFE Regs state that a dealer must ensure that possession would be legal where the buyer lives. That would legally preclude an FFL from selling/transferring to a Boston resident. However, I doubt that even 5% of dealers know about the Boston ban and thus gladly transfer ARs to Boston residents. Since Boston doesn't prosecute, nobody has ever flagged the issue. I put it out there because it is the law, but also explain that nobody is aware of even one prosecution in Boston.

 

[crazymjb]

BATFE Regs state that a dealer must ensure that possession would be legal where the buyer lives. That would legally preclude an FFL from selling/transferring to a Boston resident. However, I doubt that even 5% of dealers know about the Boston ban and thus gladly transfer ARs to Boston residents. Since Boston doesn't prosecute, nobody has ever flagged the issue. I put it out there because it is the law, but also explain that nobody is aware of even one prosecution in Boston.

Ah so its where the buyer lives... for some reason I was thinking for the buyer to own... but the buyer can live multiple places... does batfe seperately define what constitutes location of living?

Mike

Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...

 

[crazymjb]

The buyer could also conceivably own a business in Boston and have a boston LTC but live elsewhere. In that case will the LTC address be residence or business address?

Mike





Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...

 

[FrugalFannie]

The buyer could also conceivably own a business in Boston and have a boston LTC but live elsewhere. In that case will the LTC address be residence or business address?

Mike





Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...

Interesting question. The LTC would have 2 addresses. I am looking at mine right now. I live in NH but since I own a business in MA, I 'qualified' to apply as a 'resident' in the town where my business is located. My LTC has my personal residence in NH and my business name and address is also printed on there. Other than that it looks just like my old resident LTC before I moved.

 

[crazymjb]

Hey Len, do you have a reference regarding the requirement that one must be able to lawfully own the firearm where they reside in order for a sale to be made?

Mike

 

[Len-2A Training]

Hey Len, do you have a reference regarding the requirement that one must be able to lawfully own the firearm where they reside in order for a sale to be made?

Mike

Not off hand. It is in the Fed Regs but I don't know exactly where and I have some work to do (just got back from teaching a class) and no time to ferret thru the Fed Regs (which I find harder to find things than the MGLs).

 

[crazymjb]

I didnt see anything other than abiding by local laws in the ATF quick guide.

Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...

 

[kalash]

Rugers in Boston...

I assume AR-556, SR-556, and SR-762 are all no-go? All three are too "similar" to an AR15?

 

[jho]

Rugers in Boston...

I assume AR-556, SR-556, and SR-762 are all no-go? All three are too "similar" to an AR15?

I've asked a bunch of questions on this and have gotten the same response. The laws are so vague that it can be applied to you in any way if anyone higher up has an itch in their ass for you.

Such term shall include, in addition to any other rifles and shotguns identified by said board, all versions of the following, including rifles and shotguns sold under the designation provided in this section and rifles and shotguns which are substantially identical thereto sold under any designation:- [Then the banned weapons in question are listed] Source: http://www.goal.org/masslawpages/bostonawban.html

What constitutes substantially identical?
Would any parts changes constitute a substantial difference in design?
-2 stage trigger when the original AR was a 1 stage trigger?
-300 blackout, 500 beowulf, and 7.62x39, .308win rifle when the original was 5.56?
-Piston driven when the original was direct impingement?
-AK-74's are not AK-47's are they banned?
-Can one design a completely different lower designed to attach to an AR upper?
-Are M&P 15-22s too similar?

I recently posted a question asking if 80% lowers are AR-15s in the eyes of the law.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...the-eyes-of-the-law?highlight=eyes+of+the+law

This clause in the Boston AWB covers all similar guns regardless of designation (name).

Here's one thing I'd like to see challenged.

SECTION 3.
The provisions of this act shall not apply to the possession of assault weapons, large capacity magazines, large capacity ammunition belts, or other types of magazines or ammunition belts by officers, agents, or employees of the commonwealth or any other state or of the United States, members of the armed forces of the United States or the organized militia of the commonwealth or any other state, and law enforcement officers, to the extent that any such person is authorized by competent authority to acquire, possess or carry an assault weapon and is acting within the scope of his duties.Boston AWB

BUT

Section 2. The militia of the commonwealth shall consist of all able-bodied male citizens and all other able-bodied males who have declared their intention to become citizens of the United States, between the ages of seventeen and forty-five, and who are residents of the commonwealth, and of such other persons, male and female, as may, upon their own application, be enlisted or commissioned therein pursuant to any provision of this chapter, subject, however, to such exemptions as are now, or may be hereafter, created by law. Source: https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleV/Chapter33/Section2

WOOPS

Section 4. The active or organized militia shall be composed of volunteers, and shall comprise the aides-de-camp of the Commander-in-chief, the state staff, the armed forces of the commonwealth as defined in section ten, the National Lancers, the retired list, persons employed as air defense technicians on the on-site missile program, and a special quartermaster detachment of enlisted personnel duly appointed as armorers in the various armories or air installations of the commonwealth.
The organized militia shall constitute the military division of the executive branch of the commonwealth.

Looks like those of us who are not in the armed forces are not part of the organized militia. Sorry guys!

 

[Neuro]

Looks like those of us who are not in the armed forces are not part of the organized militia. Sorry guys!

Section 4 does not invalidate Section2. As I read it, it adds more to the definition of militia, although it is not an exclusionary definition.

 

[jho]

Section 4 does not invalidate Section2. As I read it, it adds more to the definition of militia, although it is not an exclusionary definition.

Section 3. The militia shall consist of two classes, namely, the organized militia, composed and organized as provided in this chapter, and the remainder, to be known as the unorganized militia. The unorganized militia shall not be subject to duty except in case of war, actual or threatened, invasion, the prevention of invasion, the suppression of riots, and the assisting of civil officers in the execution of the laws.

I think we the people would be classified as the unorganized militia. I have no idea. If any attorneys want to look at it without charging me please feel free.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kalash]

I can poke so many holes in the AWB and in the militia wording, yet none of that is likely to matter in a courtroom. Essentially the law is whatever the judge in front of you feels like it is. I guess know the risks and proceed accordingly.

So to get back to the original question, no Ruger "ARs" for me

 

[bhires]

I can poke so many holes in the AWB and in the militia wording, yet none of that is likely to matter in a courtroom. Essentially the law is whatever the judge in front of you feels like it is. I guess know the risks and proceed accordingly.

So to get back to the original question, no Ruger "ARs" for me

+1 Man, Keep fighting the good fight

 

[kalash]

SMH! I think the infuriating (I assume that's what this means ?) thing is that you won't buy an AR because you live in Boston, where is your courage? This forum has made it VERY CLEAR that NO COP knows about this law, nevertheless been PROSECUTED for it.

Clearly, there are AW's in Boston. If a dealer is willing to sell you one, what's the problem? Don't give me the "violation of BATFE regs" because that won't stick, this law is so vague that you cannot knowingly violate it, nor can your dealer.

All this back and forth is kinda ridiculous about the same few lines of legislation that was produced over 20 years ago, just buy one! Don't be sissies, please. If you choose to be a sissy, just buy a Mini-14 and let that be the end of it.

Which agency are you with?

 

[bhires]

Which agency are you with?

Is that a bad joke or something of equal stupidity?

 

[Palladin]

Hi Marsha! or is it now Maura ?

 

[kalash]

Is that a bad joke or something of equal stupidity?

You sound cocky. Must be a fed. ATF?

Seriously, stop clogging up this thread with posts advocating that people break the law.

 

[Len-2A Training]

You sound cocky. Must be a fed. ATF?

Seriously, stop clogging up this thread with posts advocating that people break the law.

Which also violates the rules we set up when this forum was founded. Although I don't think that rule is enforced.

Regardless it isn't a good idea to advise others to break laws. What each person does (especially if informed of the law) is up to them, posting that you break the law or advising others to do so is dumb however. And yes, Feds, State and Local LE do indeed troll NES for info and likely for prosecution as well. More than one subpoena for info on users has been served on the forum owner.

 

[bhires]

+1

 

[Len-2A Training]

Seriously I posted once, sorry for "clogging". I figured a little encouragement would stop you from complaining (no Ruger "ARs" for me ) and get your balls back.

Where did I post "posting that you break the law"? How could I possibly be breaking the law if I don't live in Boston?

I had 3 hypothetical situations for you but being accused of being LE has kinda made lose interest in this silliness. That's a low blow there Len

Here is just one: Pre-ban high cap magazines are included in this AWB, correct? How are you going to enforce that when state law doesn't require a LTC to purchase magazines?

Reading comprehension failure! I didn't accuse you of being LE, someone else did that. I merely addressed the situation that this forum is trolled by LE and people have faced consequences based on posts here . . . and that is a fact.

You really need to read and try to understand the laws you talk about. You most certainly do need a LTC to purchase ANY large cap mags as well as to possess them.

Enforcement seems to be random, but some people have been jacked up about it.

 

[kalash]

The law enforcement comments were most certainly tongue-in-cheek, but that doesn't change the fact that advocating that someone break the law on a public forum is at best irresponsible. In any event it is not your decision for someone else to follow laws or not - what you should do is explain the law and leave any individual reader to decide ON THEIR OWN whether or not to follow it.

 

[kalash]

Hi guys, im a new member, this is my first post. I have advanced searched the forums but i cant seem to find a specific answer to my question.
I am thinking about moving to boston. I am also interested in buying an HD shotgun, 20 inch barrel that holds 8 in the tube, PUMP ACTION.
We have boston defining an AW as :any other shotgun with a fixed magazine, cylinder, drum or tube capacity exceeding six rounds
Directly below in the next section it says this is OK: a rifle or shotgun which operates by slide action;

Im confused. slide action = pump action correct? so i should be ok??

Welcome but no you aren't OK. Boston's ban specifically calls out tube-fed shotguns and they can't hold more than 6 rds (different from MGL on large-capacity feeding devices for the entire state). The mag capacity is regardless of what type of action the gun has.

Parts of the ban are seemingly contradictory. On the one hand, the Boston ban states:

(1) "Assault weapon", all rifles and shotguns designated as assault weapons in this section and all other semi-automatic rifles and shotguns which are determined by the assault weapon roster board, established under the provisions of section five, to be assault weapons. Such term shall include, in addition to any other rifles and shotguns identified by said board, all versions of the following, including rifles and shotguns sold under the designation provided in this section and rifles and shotguns which are substantially identical thereto sold under any designation:-

(a) Avtomat Kalishnikov, also known as AK-47 semi-automatic rifles;
(b) Uzi semi-automatic rifles;
(c) AR-15 semi-automatic rifles;
(d) FN-FAL and FN-FNC semi-automatic rifles;
(e) Steyr Aug semi-automatic rifles;
(f) SKS semi-automatic rifles;
(g) shotguns with revolving cylinders known as the Street Sweeper and the Striker 12;
(h) any other semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding ten rounds;
(i) any other shotgun with a fixed magazine, cylinder, drum or tube capacity exceeding six rounds; and
09 any semi-automatic firearm which is a modification of a rifle or shotgun described in this subsection; that is, having the same make, caliber, and action design but a shorter barrel or no rear stock.

On the other hand, it goes on to say:

(2) "Assault weapon" shall not include:
(a) a rifle or shotgun which does not employ fixed ammunition;
(b) a rifle or shotgun which was manufactured prior to the year eighteen hundred and ninety-eight;
(c) a rifle or shotgun which operates by manual bolt action;
(d) a rifle or shotgun which operates by lever action;
(e) a rifle or shotgun which operates by slide action;
(f) a rifle or shotgun which is a single shot weapon;
(g) a rifle or shotgun which is a multiple barrel weapon;
(h) a rifle which is a revolving cylinder weapon;
(i) a rifle which employs a fixed magazine with a capacity of ten rounds or less;
(j) a shotgun which is a rimfire weapon that employs a tubular magazine with a magazine capacity of six rounds or less;
(k) a rifle or shotgun which cannot employ a detachable magazine or ammunition belt with a capacity greater than ten rounds;
(I) a rifle or shotgun which has been modified so as to render it permanently inoperable or so as to make it permanently a device which may not appropriately be designated as an assault weapon; or
Cm) a rifle or shotgun which is an antique or relic firearm, movie prop or other weapon not capable of firing a projectile and not intended for use as a functional weapon and which cannot be readily converted through a combination of available parts into an operable assault weapon.

So...

1) Is a pump-action shotgun that holds more than 6 rounds legal or no? The first part says "no" but the second specifically excludes pump guns from consideration.

2) Is a Kel-Tec KSG legal? It holds twelve rounds total but only six in each fixed magazine.

3) Is a DP12 legal? The ban states that any "multiple barrel weapon" is excluded from being considered an AW. Then again, each magazine holds seven rounds.

Or would this all come down to whether the jury sides with a prosecutor or the defendant's attorney?

 

[righteousbarbarian]

Len, in another thread you wrote the following:

Boston has it's own "laws". One of them is a ban on some guns FOR SUBJECTS ONLY (does NOT effect anyone visiting/traveling in/thru Boston). There was a one-time-only registration for those that owned them at the time the "law" went into effect. Allegedly anyone moving in after that date was supposedly SOL.

I'm guessing that a query to City Council as to where their laws can be found (maybe on a website) might get you the info on what is banned. I would NOT specifically "raise any flags" and ask about gun bans, just ask generally where the info can be found.

According to Chief Ron Glidden, he was told by those in the know in Boston that NOBODY has ever been charged with violating this "law".

Does that mean a resident of another city could use a storage unit located in Boston (including Allston, Brighton, Charlestown, Dorchester, Roslindale, etc.) to store an AR 15, for instance, if it was locked up properly without breaking the law? (I'm guessing not)

 

[Len-2A Training]

Len, in another thread you wrote the following:



Does that mean a resident of another city could use a storage unit located in Boston (including Allston, Brighton, Charlestown, Dorchester, Roslindale, etc.) to store an AR 15, for instance, if it was locked up properly without breaking the law? (I'm guessing not)

I honestly don't know. I probably would opt for a storage unit just outside the City to avoid the issue.

 

[dennism]

The actual text of the Boston Ban is posted here, pretty sure it is in a Sticky. [ETA: See Post #22 here for text.]

NO rifle mags >10 rds, period. NO such thing as "pre-ban" wrt Boston.

IIRC, it bans all AR15s and look-alikes but I haven't read the full text in a year or more, so check.

My sympathies at having to move into Meninostan!

Thanks for your service.

The Boston ban defines a rifle as having a barrel of greater than 16". How does this impact an SBR and magazines meant for SBR's in the AR platform?

3. "Large capacity ammunition belt", a belt or strip which holds more than ten rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously into a semi-automatic rifle or shotgun or an ammunition belt which can be readily converted into a large capacity ammunition belt.


4. "Large capacity magazine", a box, drum, or other container which holds more than ten rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously into a semi-automatic rifle or shotgun or a magazine which can be readily converted into a large capacity magazine.


5. "Rifle", a firearm of which the length of barrel is sixteen inches or more, that is designed or has been redesigned, made or has been remade to fire a fixed cartridge.

 

[bhires]

No comment. I want to take one of your Mass Gun laws for non-lawyers by a non-lawyer and learn more little cool tips like this one!

 

[Len-2A Training]

No comment. I want to take one of your Mass Gun laws for non-lawyers by a non-lawyer and learn more little cool tips like this one!

Please go to my website and send me an Email from there after you find a date that fits your schedule. http://2atraining.weebly.com

 

[5 DOLLAR FOOT LONG]

If I want to build an upper, and don't have the tools to do the pin/weld of the muzzle device myself, whats the correct order to do stuff so I don't ever have the material for "constructive intent?" Or am I worrying too much?

 

[warwickben]

If I want to build an upper, and don't have the tools to do the pin/weld of the muzzle device myself, whats the correct order to do stuff so I don't ever have the material for "constructive intent?" Or am I worrying too much?

Worry too much. Nkt like ATF will kick you door in the second you assemble it.

But .....

You could toss the barrel parts loose on the barrel bring it to a shop. have them weld the muzzle device on.
Go home and finish the build.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Worry too much. Nkt like ATF will kick you door in the second you assemble it.

But .....

You could toss the barrel parts loose on the barrel bring it to a shop. have them weld the muzzle device on.
Go home and finish the build.

Legally? NOT if he lives in Boston. ALL ARs and clones thereof are illegal to possess within Boston (as are ALL >10 rd mags for rifle no matter when mfd). ONLY exception is if he got a "AW" permit back in 1989 and kept it current since then (renewal every 5 yrs).

Not that anyone in Boston cares about such restrictions, but this is in the Boston AWB thread after all.