Bass Pro-On the wrong side of the AG already?

[jrbtzx12r]

What good, what kind of example does it set for supposedly law-abiding firearm owners to knowingly violate the law and purchase a firearm known to be illegal in MA? What does that say about us?

As noted by Lugnut & 69hdfl, the guns are on the EOPS list, so they're legal to own in MA.

One thing I'd like to point out here is that the AGs "list" is something we cannot review (like the EOPS list) as gun buyers. We can only rely upon the dealer(s) selling them to us.

I was there Wednesday night, and everyone behind the counter said it was OK to sell the guns. I heard the same thing over and over from several people behind that counter while listening in on conversations. So why would a potential buyer ignore what they were saying? How would the potential buyer know that the AG didn't change its "list", allowing the guns to be sold?

Jr

 

[KMaurer]

No matter what the laws are and how much we disagree with them as law-abiding citizens of the Commonwealth we are required to obey them. (Something criminals don't do ... no matter how many laws they pass.)

What good, what kind of example does it set for supposedly law-abiding firearm owners to knowingly violate the law and purchase a firearm known to be illegal in MA? What does that say about us?

Had I been there, I too would have obeyed the laws. There's absolutely no law that prohibits me from owning any of the guns that were for sale; there's absolutely no law that prohibits me from purchasing any of the guns that were for sale; there's absolutely no law that in any way declares any of the firearms that were for sale to be illegal. There are both laws and regulations purportedly enacted to protect me as a consumer from deceptive marketing practices and unsafe products that prohibit licensed dealers from selling some guns, but I'm neither a licensed dealer nor am I selling anything. Not purchasing a gun that I wanted and that I was not prohibited from purchasing or owning would have said that I was either an idiot or that I was so cowed by the anti-gun propaganda and disinformation that permeates the political climate of this state that I was nothing more than a sheep.

Ken

 

[JonJ]

BassPro screwed up. Had they not sold firearms that were not on the EOPS list they could have fought back. Instead, they put themselves behind the eightball and at the mercy of the AG.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

No matter what the laws are and how much we disagree with them as law-abiding citizens of the Commonwealth we are required to obey them. (Something criminals don't do ... no matter how many laws they pass.)

What good, what kind of example does it set for supposedly law-abiding firearm owners to knowingly violate the law and purchase a firearm known to be illegal in MA? What does that say about us?

I would hesitate to knowingly subject a dealer to the possibility fo a $5K fine, but..

#1: "knowingly violate the law" is inaccurate for guns on the lab tested list. The term would be "To buy a gun which the dealer is not allowed to sell me so that I may be protected from an unfair and deceptive trade practice."

#2: The gun is not illegal. The act of a dealer selling it is not a crime, but a civil violation of the CMR issued for "consumer protection"

#3: If you made such a purchase, you would have been choosing to engage in a transaction that the AG feels is unfair to you, not "buy an illegal item".

 

[drgrant]

What good, what kind of example does it set for supposedly law-abiding firearm owners to knowingly violate the law and purchase a firearm known to be illegal in MA? What does that say about us?

It might help if you understood that the guns themselves
are NOT illegal. The most anyone could come up with
is that buying something off-list is a form of civil disobedience, at
"worst". The AG's regs don't have ANY penalties against the
buyers or posessors of such handguns. Please don't do the
antis any favors by inventing laws that simply don't exist.

To put it in layman's terms- the AG's regs are no different than
a law banning the sale of mattresses without tags on
them. (Except in this case, the reasoning behind the regs is
flawed, and vendors trying to become compliant is onerous and
risky, instead of spending .20 cents to add a tag. ) If a buyer
ends up with the "tagless mattress" he/she is not breaking the
law. (Although the dealer probably did, for selling it. )

-Mike

 

[ronbok]

Argh... here we go again. Ron, other than the weapons listed on the mis-named Assault Weapons Ban, there ARE no "illegal firearms" in MA - there are firearms that it is illegal for a DEALER to sell, but the purchaser commits NO CRIME in buying them.

I appreciate the clarification, I assuridly do. The problem here, in my opinion only of course, is one of integrity. Just because a dealer has opened up a loophole doesn't mean you have to jump through it.

VW TDI's (diesels) are prohibited here in MA too, yet some people go out of State and purchase a used one to skirt the issue. Is that fair to you and I who are abiding by the law?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

the AG's regs are no different than a law banning the sale of mattresses without tags on them.

Brilliant explaination - nicely done - except that the mattress tag thing may be an actual law rather than a regulation (not sure though)

 

[drgrant]

As noted by Lugnut & 69hdfl, the guns are on the EOPS list, so they're legal to own in MA.

One Nit-

Even if they're NOT on that list, they're still legal to own/posess,
unless the gun in question runs afoul of the MA AWB.
The difference being that if a dealer sold an off list gun, the dealer
would be breaking (two?) laws instead of one. The MA compliance BS
is a two tiered set of laws, both only applying to dealers.

-Mike

 

[NFD9]

We could probably split hairs over this for days on end, but again knowingly purchasing one of these under the circumstances was just plain wrong in my opinion no matter who was at fault. The dealer or the buyer.

Ron,
Are you the president of the Norfolk County League of Sportsmen's Clubs ?

 

[NFD9]

dupe

 

[drgrant]

Brilliant explaination - nicely done - except that the mattress tag thing may be an actual law rather than a regulation (not sure though)

It might be in CFR or US Code, I'm not sure... pretty sure it is a
fed thing. Regardless; the idea is the same. Although one thing
is, I'm pretty sure that a mattress manufacturer does not go through
nearly the same level of BS as someone like Glock does trying to sell a
damned handgun in MA. I'll take a mattress tag law
over the AG's regs any day of the week.

-Mike

 

[Mikey]

VW TDI's (diesels) are prohibited here in MA too, yet some people go out of State and purchase a used one to skirt the issue. Is that fair to you and I who are abiding by the law?

And I am sure everytime you buy something online or in NH with no sale tax you tell MA about it when it is time to fill out your taxes???

 

[ronbok]

Guys, I get it. BP violated a consumer protection regulation. I still think it was an issue of integrity (not law) for anyone to have purchased those guns under the circumstances.

We can agree to disagree and that's fine. It was a personal decision for each person to make - just like deciding which firearm to buy and what store to buy it from.

I truly appreciate the clarifications and analogies made as it makes us all smarter and more knowledgeable individuals.

 

[ronbok]

Add I am sure everytime you buy something online or in NH with no sale tax you tell MA about it when it is time to fill out your taxes???

I must say, honestly, that I've never purchased anything in NH. So I'm off the hook.

 

[clinotus]

I tend to agree with most of your posts and this one as well.. except for #4. A rat is a rat. At least the way it's been "explained" here.

Agreed. Further that the logic of the dealer doing it for good of firearms enthusiasts everywhere is also a load of crap, so now dealers are secondary moms in this nanny state?

He ratted out the store from the understanding that I have of the situation, with no call to the store or store manager but instead a direct call to the AG. If the dealers are compliant in the watering down of our rights to keep, bear, and purchase then why would we continue to support them is beyond me.

This is not to say that I'm preaching that everyone should go out and finda grey area, or break a law or regulation, but the way this went down leaves a very very bad taste in my mouth.

Not to mention a golden moment to challenge some of those 'regulations' was lost.

 

[icyclefar]

Boy I hope someone at Glock Corpoate is reading all this ............

C'mon Gaston, help a brother out here

 

[C-pher]

I must say, honestly, that I've never purchased anything in NH. So I'm off the hook.

I'm also guessing that you're never purchaced any items online either. Right?

 

[Mikey]

I must say, honestly, that I've never purchased anything in NH. So I'm off the hook.

What about the internet that counts too.

ETA:C-pher beat me to it.

 

[drgrant]

VW TDI's (diesels) are prohibited here in MA too, yet some people go out of State and purchase a used one to skirt the issue. Is that fair to you and I who are abiding by the law?

I would praise their act of civil disobedience and buy that man a
beer.

It's not "unfair" because there isn't anything stopping someone
else from doing the same thing. I can't buy the "moral
wrongness" tack when the law is only "malum prohibitum" to
begin with, and the person's actions have hurt nobody.

Just because the state "would prefer" we don't have something
doesn't mean we should kowtow to them at every opportunity-
rather, we should be spitting in their faces every
chance we get- especially if we can do so without getting put
in jail. They disrespect us enough as it is, I think
the favor should be returned even if it's just one little thing here
and there. Lord knows we've been needled to death as
gun owners as it is in this state. It's time to start pissing in
their cakemix in return.


-Mike

 

[Joe R.]

This has been a topic that has been dicussed in homes, bars, food places, and the range. Why hasn't anybody challenged the AG's regs? The answer is why we don't challenge everything bad here in the People's Republic - WE DON'T HAVE DEEP ENOUGH POCKETS TO DO THIS! The AG's office has the unlimted resources of the MA government to go up against a few of us trying to get things changed here. What is needed is a company with deep pockets and the fortitude to see thru what they started. I was hoping that BPS might have been that shop but I was wrong. Maybe C-pher can keep us clued in on what is happening.

Things are bad enough here for gun owners here without the MA Dealer Association members turning BPS in. G_D, what sheep we have become. Don't rock the boat, stir up crap, poke the sleeping lion and other neat phrases that decribe what gun dealers here in MA will do to just stay in business. I didn't buy a Glock that night because I have 1 for each hand now and don't need anymore. So what if someone bought one that night - more power to them! As to the dealer's name - what is the big deal about saying it? Let the people decide what they want to do. Hell, everybody was quick enough to jump on S&W when they sold out but they were still selling new guns to people out there who had some " integrity " issues then too...

As to something a little bit lighter... why is a TDI Jetta illegal in MA?

Joe R.

 

[patio]

As to something a little bit lighter... why is a TDI Jetta illegal in MA?

Emissions.

http://www.mass.gov/dep/air/community/dieselqa.htm

Now unlike firearms, you could buy one out of state and bring it in. You would however have to still pay MA sales tax if you do it within 6 months of purchasing it. I actually saw that some VW dealer in MA was selling "MA Legal TDI Touareg"s; but they are probably over 8,500 lbs GVW.

 

[NFD9]

Could someone PM me the name also. I would like to know the correct party, instead of jumping to conclusions.

TIA
Gary

Never Mind, just got it from the dealers shop.

 

[dwarven1]

Never Mind, just got it from the horses mouth.

You sure that that wasn't from the jackass's mouth instead?

 

[JonJ]

Never Mind, just got it from the horses mouth.

Did you ask him if it was OK to publicize his name and what he said so we can put this to rest?

 

[C-pher]

Someone here on another thread suggested that we write to Bass Pro, he offered up the name and e-mail of a good contact person.

I suggest that we hammer him with e-mails. When I said that this might happen to some of the mgmt in BPS, they said that it was a very good idea.

 

[NFD9]

Never Mind, just got it from the dealers shop.

JonJ,
No I didn't ask.
I should correct myself it didn't come from the horses mouth, but it was confirmed by the shop.
Sorry, I will edit my post

 

[dbhn]

It just dawned on me and I wondering if the Glocks were being sold/offered with neutered, 10-round, MA compliant mags? If so, it would seem that BPS/Glock did some sort of research before they put them on the shelve. If they were going out with high caps it would seem they didn't do much research and they were technically making everyone that bought one an instant felon.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Originally Posted by Rockrivr1
They were selling all kinds of Glocks along with Springfield Armory XDs and other handguns not on the list. From what I heard they sold over 50 before they were shut down. They've supposedly got 40 or so back, but some have kept the guns they bought as there is no law saying they have to return them.

It's an interesting story on how they got caught.
That's just funny right there... I love your humor.

That's what I get for believing what someone who supposedly was in the know told me. Would seem that the 40 guns told to me is actually only 5 or so from what C-Pher was saying. Now I have to wonder if the story that person told me about who the dealer was is correct as well. It's amazing how things grow in the rumor mill.

 

[Admin]

I wonder how much bandwidth the AG's office burns reading this forum.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

As noted by Lugnut & 69hdfl, the guns are on the EOPS list, so they're legal to own in MA.

It's also legal to own guns not on the list - just illegal for a purveyor of firearms to sell them.