Bass Pro-On the wrong side of the AG already?

[drgrant]

Shame on me for not calling first, but still I was a bit peeved. Carl
replied and ever since they've been very current.

Gary

A little bit of a hint- If it's a "rare" you need to call up FS and
reserve it, otherwise it WILL be gone. Carl has told me that
there are customers of his that sit around on their computers all day
and push REFRESH on that page constantly. These people
basically have FS on speed dial! Once he listed an MA-exempt Sig
P210 on there. The shop was DELUGED with calls less than a
couple of minutes after it was posted.

-Mike

 

[Garys]

A little bit of a hint- If it's a "rare" you need to call up FS and
reserve it, otherwise it WILL be gone. Carl has told me that
there are customers of his that sit around on their computers all day
and push REFRESH on that page constantly. These people
basically have FS on speed dial! Once he listed an MA-exempt Sig
P210 on there. The shop was DELUGED with calls less than a
couple of minutes after it was posted.

-Mike

It wasn't rare and it had been sold a week before I walked in the shop. A lot of handguns move quickly through that store and they have been a lot better lately keeping the list up to date. I hit the used gun list at least once a day, even though I'm not an avid collector.

Gary

 

[kevin9]

...Let's say the big box store (BBS) is allowed to continue for a few more weeks, sells a whole bunch more non-EOPS firearms, and then gets whacked with huge fines. There are there are three possible results:

1. The BBS pays the huge fines and probably does what every other BBS in Mass has done: Stops selling handguns. If they decide to keep selling EOPS handguns, they've been hurt financially. I win either way.
2. The BBS fights the AG and spends a bundle of money on legal fees, and wins. Now I'll be able to sell the same guns. I know that I can compete with them on price. (This is true - I've looked at their prices)
3. The BBS fights the AG, spends big money on legal fees, and loses. If this happens, they almost certainly will decide to stop selling handguns in Mass. Even if they decide to continue selling EOPS handguns, my competitor has been hurt financially, and I know I can compete on price.

While all of this is going on, I call the BBS patriotic, pretend that I like what they're doing, and put up an end cap full of Glock and XD mags and KKM replacement barrels right in front of my door.

+1. That's the "rising tide floats all boats" perspective.

To your second point - "potentially undercutting my prices and offering things I can't" - I'll need to find a way to continue to be competitive anyway - regardless of the "non-EOPS guns thing".

One of the big advantages a small place has over a BBS is "agility"....

And as Len said this is the "sail circles around them" perspective.

EC's exquisitely cogent logic on this issue can be summed up as "cooperate and graduate", or "hang together, or hang individually".

 

[depicts]

Or Jim is wrong and the BBS will drive most of the competition out of business like Home Depot and Lowe's has pretty much wiped out the Independent Hardware store. Some franchises survive, as do the truly outstanding individual stores.

Think of how many stores are gone in your own home town since you got within comfortable distance to a Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Staples, Lowe's, Target...and on and on.

Jim's right in that the superlative store can survive, maybe even prosper and grow. That isn't the future to the BBS in most cases. There are only so many "Jim's Gun Shops" out there. The rest will be gone.

When I grew up in Norwood there were at least ten places to buy ammo and guns. Now there are none. Now I live in Norton. There is no gun shop and only one place I know where you can buy a VERY Limited selection of ammo.

Do you think a Bass Pro Shop or a Cabella's is going to make this better? [sad2]

Maybe agility and turning the ship faster isn't enough.

Just sayin'......

 

[reinbeau]

Or Jim is wrong and the BBS will drive most of the competition out of business like Home Depot and Lowe's has pretty much wiped out the Independent Hardware store. Some franchises survive, as do the truly outstanding individual stores.

Home Depot and Lowe's hasn't killed off independent stores, your second sentence proves that. They drove up competition, and only the good stores have survived - and there are plenty of customers out there who will go to the small store for convenience, those big stores may offer bargains but they're a PITA to deal with.

Up in NH (I think it's Rochester) there's a Brock's Lumber sitting right in the parking lot of a Home Depot. It seems to do quite well, I know we go there for lumber and not Home Desperate They're cheaper and offer better quality.

 

[dwarven1]

When I grew up in Norwood there were at least ten places to buy ammo and guns. Now there are none. Now I live in Norton. There is no gun shop and only one place I know where you can buy a VERY Limited selection of ammo.

And this is who's fault? Certainly not Walmart! This is the fault of the great Commiewealth of Marxachusetts and the BATFE whittling down FFLs.

In Marlborough, there used to be an NHD - they're gone, and Home Despot has opened some time afterwards. Monnick Hardware has expanded and is a worthy competitor to HD - I shop there frequently. Not to mention that there are Robinson's and Aubuchon in Hudson. All seem to be thriving since they're expanding their stores.

 

[jkelly]

Home Depot and Lowe's hasn't killed off independent stores, your second sentence proves that. They drove up competition, and only the good stores have survived - and there are plenty of customers out there who will go to the small store for convenience, those big stores may offer bargains but they're a PITA to deal with.

Up in NH (I think it's Rochester) there's a Brock's Lumber sitting right in the parking lot of a Home Depot. It seems to do quite well, I know we go there for lumber and not Home Desperate They're cheaper and offer better quality. ---Reinbeau

Interestingly, your first sentence seems to disagree with your second sentence.
Your second sentence seems to be agreeing with both of Depicts’ first two sentences.

And your complete post (minus your first sentence) actually seems to be agreeing with the premise of Depicts’ post that that the large “Mega” stores like Home Depot, Lowe’s and Bass Pro hurt many of the smaller “Mom and Pop” sized stores.


Respectfully,

jkelly

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Or Jim is wrong and the BBS will drive most of the competition out of business like Home Depot and Lowe's has pretty much wiped out the Independent Hardware store. Some franchises survive, as do the truly outstanding individual stores.

The big stores hurt the little ones when they are able to use their buying power to get deals that allow them to undercut the little guy - the "Walmart effect". This is very true in fields like consumer electronics, appliances, and certain low end ammo (Winchester White Box and the like) where the result can be "go to the little guy if you want better service with higher prices".

Bass Pro has certainly not indicated that it's strategy is to underprice the little guy on handguns or reloading supplies ($34 for Winchester Small Rifle primers - Yikes!); isn't about to open up a huge used gun counter; probably won't handle transfers; and is not going to have the selection of a Four Seasons. I doubt Bass Pro will Walmart the little guy.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Or Jim is wrong and the BBS will drive most of the competition out of business like Home Depot and Lowe's has pretty much wiped out the Independent Hardware store.

Maybe the crappy ones.

Home Depot/Lowes vs. The Local Lumber Yard is not analogous to BPS vs. the Local Gun Shop.

Sure, a Big Box Store will tend "kill off" local competitors that have a similar broad (but smaller) product selection, similar service, and that try to compete on price. Then a Bigger Box Store will kill off the Big Box Store (like Walmart did to Caldor, Bradlees, etc).

Home Depot might've killed off many smaller lumber yards but they didn't kill off the local tile places, kitchen places, carpet dealers, garden centers, etc. Why not? Because these places have better knowledge of their product, better quality product, more variety, bring newer products to the shelves quicker, have better service, etc. Local gun dealers are like these places.

The kitchen/carpet/tile/landscape products are a small part of Home Depot/Lowes's business. A big part of their business is contractors that come in week after week and buy large in quantities. At BPS, guns are a small part of the business. There's no "gun dealer" equivalent of a large contractor (with the possible exception of Fred).

 

[drgrant]

Or Jim is wrong and the BBS will drive most of the competition out of business like Home Depot and Lowe's has pretty much wiped out the Independent Hardware store. Some franchises survive, as do the truly outstanding individual stores.

I doubt it. It hasn't happened in the free states where there are
a lot more big box stores selling guns... there are still a shit ton of
independent FFLs, gun stores, etc. Why? Because they
have products and services, and customer service that the big box
stores simply don't have or can't provide for a variety of reasons.
Even really cool places like Cabela's, when it comes down to "gun
stuff" do not have, or can't get me things like the dealers I use
can. In some cases they're also less efficient and more expensive
with regards to things like doing gun transfers.

Further, there are a lot of "value adds" that staff at a smaller
store can provide (eg, purchasing advice, guidance,
etc.) that seems to be missing/nonexistant at the box
stores. This matters a lot MORE for something like a gun, and
a lot less for "sundry crap" like what is sold at Home Despot or
the local hardware store. Most people just go into those places
and buy whatever crap they need. They rarely need to use
the staff for anything that involves a knowledge base. 99% of
the time they just want the staff to tell them where they can find
something in their football-stadium sized stores.

If anything kills off dealers in MA it's going to be regulatory
overhead, not a big box store. I've dealt with a lot of FFLs and
I haven't heard any complain about walmart selling ammo or
rem 870s or whatever for cheaper than they do. Almost all of
them, however, complained to me about how much of a pain in the
ass it is to do business in this state because of the laws here,
though!

-Mike

 

[dwarven1]

One more point about the Walmart/BPS argument: when I want electronics or some other durable good, I do NOT go to Walmart. Why? Because they stock the lower end of most everything!

Sure, I can get a cheap TV or radio at Walmart... but if I want a GOOD one, I go somewhere that specializes in that stuff - Tweeter (yeah, I know it's a chain), Cambridge Soundworks, etc. Walmart is fine for bulk pack .22, paper towels, sheets (oh, wait... I buy those from the Company Store), Wrangler jeans and cheap socks, but not for good stuff. Heck, I don't even buy pet food there! I get that from the local store who stocks the brand that my vet recommended for my cat.

Not sure how this will apply to BPS as I haven't been there yet. It may not apply at all since I don't fish, and there are some good gunstores nearby, so I don't have to truck all the way down to Foxboro.

 

[Mikey]

Guess I am fortunate, I have the choice of five gun shops on my 20 min ride home from work

As for BBS vs. Mom and Pop.
Last time I went to my local “mom and pop” hardware store it cost me $45 for a G.D. plastic trash can, the next day Wally World had the same thing back in stock for $19.99. If you are made of money then go ahead and feel good about yourself and support the local guy but I got other things to pay for. I love my local gun shop too but when 50 rounds of .45 cost the same as 100 rounds at Wal-Mart… It is called capitalism.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Why? Because they stock the lower end of most everything!

You need to research model numbers carefully. Sometimes products are a model specific that that store. In some cases, that means lower quality to meet a price point (I've heard this happens with some power tools), and in others it's the same or identical product with a different model number to foil attempts at price matching and comparison shopping.

 

[Mikey]

Good point Rob and very true with everything especially electronics. There are many brands out there that have never made a TV in their lives but have their name on them, and it is not just at places like Wal-Mart. Quality can be hard to find when 6 different brand come out of the same factory in China.

 

[Admin]

This thread gives a new meaning to

 

[dwarven1]

Hey, looks like fun. Let me try!

 

[Admin]

I like that one better!

ETA: Damn it now I broke it.

 

[dreppucci007]

This thread give a new meaning to

What exactly is that???

ETA: Nevermind, I see your post above

 

[MassMark]

Looks like you blew up there derek...

 

[Admin]

There we go. Thanks for finding that one Ross!

 

[dreppucci007]

There we go. Thanks for finding that one Ross!

+1 Thanks Ross...Much better.

 

[Mikey]

You guys are too negative, it is not beating it is tenderizing.

 

[dwarven1]

Derek, Jim, et al - you're welcome. Glad I could contribute in my small but meaningful way.

Jim... subtle. Very subtle. As usual.

 

[drgrant]

You guys are too negative, it is not beating it is tenderizing.

Yes, assuming one likes horsemeat. I need some soy
sauce marinade for mine, though, to make it edible.

BPS Glock fiasco.
RatBoi is "right!" (2 ppl) Ratboi is a TRAITOR and should be burned at the stake! (everyone else)
Tramlaw taking over the world with commie goods
MA attorney general being a douchebag (whoda thunk it?) Although IMO, roasting the MA AG is always in season!

I like how the horses are synchronized. (kinda like the discussion
in the thread. ) Hey look, the horses even have saddles, which
explains the high post count in the thread.

-Mike

 

[daisywench]

Hmmm...regardless of what his motives were, I would not buy a thing from him if I were down in MA. He should be ashamed of himself and begin working toward atoning for what he did. If he doesn't realize that what he did was wrong then I think he's doomed to lose a lot of business.

It seems that people sometimes forget "united we stand, divided we fall."

Plus somebody else made a great point about how BPS might have ended up fighting the AG if the sales had gone on long enough. But now that probably won't happen. I just don't understand why there isn't a sense of cooperation and a determination to work together to defeat the AG and restore some sanity to MA gun sales.

Hey, maybe I'll still buy live bait from him. Oh, wait! Dick's and BP will both sell live bait come Spring.

WOO HOO! <grumble...condescending jerk...grumble>

 

[C-pher]

You need to research model numbers carefully. Sometimes products are a model specific that that store. In some cases, that means lower quality to meet a price point (I've heard this happens with some power tools), and in others it's the same or identical product with a different model number to foil attempts at price matching and comparison shopping.

Most stores do that. We had Dicks Special shotguns by Remington.

Bass Pro as a 10/22 made just for them. It's got a different model number...it's not in the catalog. And the only thing that I can tell is different is that it's got a 20" barrel instead of the standard 18" barrel.

 

[reinbeau]

Interestingly, your first sentence seems to disagree with your second sentence.
Your second sentence seems to be agreeing with both of Depicts’ first two sentences.

And your complete post (minus your first sentence) actually seems to be agreeing with the premise of Depicts’ post that that the large “Mega” stores like Home Depot, Lowe’s and Bass Pro hurt many of the smaller “Mom and Pop” sized stores.


Respectfully,

jkelly

No, I am not agreeing whatsoever. Survival of the fittest doesn't mean the big guy won. Perhaps the other stores would have gone out anyways. Point is I haven't seen a huge decline in mom and pop stores because of the big bad box stores coming into town. If you've got a favorite store that went because of it you may be inclined to believe it was all HD's fault, but there are dozens of other stores that have survived just fine.

 

[jkelly]

No, I am not agreeing whatsoever. ---reinbeau

Well I could be mistaken but boy it really reads that way to me.


Respectfully,

jkelly

 

[reinbeau]

Well I could be mistaken but boy it really reads that way to me.


Respectfully,

jkelly

You are - this is the way business works. Competition either makes you work harder/differently or you go out of business. Good companies that make it easy for customers to buy from them will survive any big-box store that moves into town. Would a BPS cause Four Seasons any heartburn? I don't think so. It might even enhance their business bringing people into town that wouldn't necessarily ever go to Woburn. Why? Because FS is a great gun store will great customer service and relations. That's how you survive in business. Worry about your own business model and keep your customers happy.

 

[Cherokee_Outlaw]

Look what's happening to H&K pricing (at least the common models) in state, due to more availability.

Whats happening!? They are still 25%-35% higher then out of state... even 2-4 year old HKs are more then new...

Is that cheaper then last year!?