Ayer man pulls gun in Westford road rage incident

[Rob Boudrie]

he wouldn't have had any gun charges, and the issuing PD (chief) might have had some leeway in allowing him to keep his LTC (I don't know if this is true or not in MA).

Any crime of violence is a lifetime DQ in MA so, at minimum, he would lose his LTC until the charges were resolved.

 

[n1bsbri]

A guy needs to go to jail since he pointed a gun at someone? Really?

Chris

That would be called "assault with a deadly weapon", so I say yes.

 

[je25ff]

I agree one more idiot not helping the cause. I think people should learn how to defend themselves with their hands before owning a gun.. And what the hell is Ayer ? lol
Doesn't that mean yesterday or tomorrow in Spanish ?


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It's a town that was once more prosperous but has declined since Fort Devens went bye bye.

 

[PaulR]

I'm in my 40's now, too old to get that worked up about the way idiots drive. I will however swear and call them a stupid MFer, then carry on with my business.
Worst I will do if being tailgated is putt along right at the speed limit. Normally if someone's on my arse, I pull over, safety of my children and all..........

 

[drgrant]

A guy needs to go to jail since he pointed a gun at someone? Really?

Chris

In most states this is called ADW or similar. If someone randomly pointed a gun at you outside of some extraordinary circumstance, how would you respond?

ETA: Some states have leeway for "brandishing" or make it a lesser charge if certain qualifiers are
met, but there are none in new england that really do this. In most places if you pull a gun on someone it better be because you think you're about to die or get really ****ed up if you don't. A typical "road rager" situation doesn't qualify.

-Mike

 

[M1911]

I see your point, but if I'm in my vehicle and someone tells me that they are going to pull me out of it and beat the shit out of me, what then? Jack.

Drive away.

 

[Tweed]

Drive away.

Exactly

 

[Rob Boudrie]

You often can't tell what really happened from the news report. The guy with the gun apparently felt he was in the right, or had a need to report himself and confess, since he called the cops. If the locksmith were an off duty officer the only question would be "what charges will the driver who had the gun pulled on him face for making the off duty officer so fearful he pulled a gun".

According to the report, the locksmith parked his van and did not approach the other driver - it was the other way around. What one person describes as "approaching to get the plate number" could be taken by the other person as an aggressive action by a nutty driver. The arrest was made because absent overwhelming evidence to the contrary, policy is generally to arrest any civilian who uses a gun against another person.

It's easy to rush to judgement, especially when the only information available is a police report and media report that does not even include an interview with the accused party. This person is entitled to the same protections, and presumption of innocence, any of us would expect if we were accused of using excessive force.

 

[Chet0729]

I need to know more. Hans has been a friend of my sons and my go to locksmith for the empire for many years. Not defending him, but what if the other party approached the truck and threatened bodily harm? Just saying. Jack.

Drive away, simple solution.

Edit: m1911 beat me to it

 

[Lcstyle]

You often can't tell what really happened from the news report.

Agreed.

The guy with the gun apparently felt he was in the right, or had a need to report himself and confess, since he called the cops.

Whether he felt like he was right or wrong makes no difference if you confess to a crime. It's your responsibility to understand the laws. You're assumed innocent until proven stupid.

If the locksmith were an off duty officer the only question would be "what charges will the driver who had the gun pulled on him face for making the off duty officer so fearful he pulled a gun".

Perhaps, but now you're muddying the waters by conflating different issues. That the police officer's word is prima facie evidence in court isn't the issue in this particular situation, though I know what you're driving at and agree. That's why police dash cams and video cameras are a good idea for the public at large, and it's no wonder that police departments are fighting video cameras and often "lose video evidence" due to "technical glitches", I digress.

So I guess maybe the moral of the story here is, don't get into road rage disputes? Because you never know if it's an off duty police officer. I do take issue however with your narrative that if I were to get into a road rage dispute and it happens to be with an off duty officer, that if I were to approach his vehicle with no weapon in hand (but in an aggressive manner) that I should expect that he draw on me? Is this legally permissible and SOP for off duty police officers? Or is it basically their word against your's and see you in 3-5?

According to the report, the locksmith parked his van and did not approach the other driver - it was the other way around. What one person describes as "approaching to get the plate number" could be taken by the other person as an aggressive action by a nutty driver.

Where's the lethal threat though? Did the approaching party approach in a belligerent or confrontational manner, with a knife, club, gun, or other weapon drawn and at the ready?

The arrest was made because absent overwhelming evidence to the contrary, policy is generally to arrest any civilian who uses a gun against another person.

Maybe, but if the use of lethal force was justified you technically wouldn't (shouldn't anyways) get convicted of any crimes, and all charges would have to be dropped (in an ideal world).

It's easy to rush to judgement, especially when the only information available is a police report and media report that does not even include an interview with the accused party. This person is entitled to the same protections, and presumption of innocence, any of us would expect if we were accused of using excessive force.

Agreed. However I would say that it's become pretty clear (to me at least) that in MA no use of a gun is ever permissible by a civilian in any situation, even if you have a carry license, and sometimes probably even in clear cut and legally valid cases of self defense. So the system is already weighted against the law abiding gun owner. Why tempt the odds in a road rage dispute, esp. when you're on the job and in a company van.

There's a preponderance of poor decision making here on the accused's part.

 

[M1911]

Agreed. However I would say that it's become pretty clear (to me at least) that in MA no use of a gun is ever permissible by a civilian in any situation, even if you have a carry license, and sometimes probably even in clear cut and legally valid cases of self defense.

That's just not true. There have been a number of civilians over the years who have used deadly force in MA and have not been prosecuted. It may have taken some time for that decision to be made, but they didn't go to court. Others did go to court and win. And some went to court and lost. It all depends upon the circumstances.

There's a preponderance of poor decision making here on the accused's part.

I agree with that.

 

[drgrant]

It's easy to rush to judgement, especially when the only information available is a police report and media report that does not even include an interview with the accused party. This person is entitled to the same protections, and presumption of innocence, any of us would expect if we were accused of using excessive force.

The problem with road rage cases is there is usually a "default bias" built into them that even though one party may have initiated the entire scrum/melee/whatever, that even the victim probably did things to escalate stuff to that point, and usually this bias is correct like 9 out of 10 times. Most normal people, one person or the other will break contact because they don't want it to escalate any further.

-Mike

 

[DPR]

Drive away, simple solution.

Edit: m1911 beat me to it

I bet that right now he wishes he had driven
away.

 

[In God We Trust]

I get flipped off on a fairly regular basis for some reason. I don't drive like an @hole, so it may just be someone that's pissed because I am only doing 5 over the limit on the back roads.

It effects my life for about 30 seconds while I try to figure out what I did to deserve it. Then I realize I don't really care and go back to my audio book.

Why do People get so worked up over an idiot?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I've never understood why people who flip other drivers off think that the recipient of the gesture gives a rats ass what the gesturer thinks of their driving.

 

[AHM]

The problem with road rage cases is there is usually a "default bias" built into them that even though one party may have initiated the entire scrum/melee/whatever, that even the victim probably did things to escalate stuff to that point, and usually this bias is correct like 9 out of 10 times. ...

Indeed, and once things ratchet up, almost everyone involved thinks it's the other guy's fault.
(At least during/immediately after the incident. Some participants might have second thoughts after enough reflection).

The other guy started it, the other guy made all the unreasonable escalations, yadda³...

Fair chance that even passengers lay it all on the other carload.

(A little like when police arrive at a domestic call, and the plainly battered party turns on a dime to join their abuser in attacking the cops).

... Most normal people, one person or the other will break contact because they don't want it to escalate any further.

Really prudent folks bail because they sense that otherwise, even if they respond with perfect propriety to each and every provocation, the mess will never be dissected afterwards to make that evident.

Just read the comments on some YoutUbe videos where it's rather obvious who is "wrong". There are still plenty of blame-the-victim reader comments. And some of those contrarians end up in every jury pool.

 

[Fixxah]

NES Screen Name?

His screen name should be; dumbasaboxofrocks. A$$clown makes us look bad

A guy walks over,pull your gun out cause scared.

NES screen name ?

Ban them all.



If these people had been on NES then perhaps shit like this wouldn't happen. Think about it.

 

[caplaw]

When i get flipped off, I smile and wave. Best response. I am over it and the other guy gets no satisfaction.

Can't believe this idiot pulled a gun. I hope he enjoyed his LTC while he had it. Poster child for "unsuitable".

 

[clampett]

When i get flipped off, I smile and wave. Best response. I am over it and the other guy gets no satisfaction.

Can't believe this idiot pulled a gun. I hope he enjoyed his LTC while he had it. Poster child for "unsuitable".

Not only does the other guy get no satisfaction, I think smiling and waving pisses him off even more.
I'm going to try that next time someone flips me off.