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AWB of 2019...Permanent this time?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by SgtHal75, Aug 11, 2019 at 7:00 PM.

  1. JNewell

    JNewell NES Member

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    This probably doesn't need elaboration, but FWIW...as far as I know (take that for whatever you think it's worth), the system appears to be able to produce either a report of every firearm transaction an individual was involved in or a report of every owner of a given gun, but not a "net" report of only the guns currently owned by an individual.

    Even if every transaction had been correctly recorded (many weren't before the electronic FA-10s were required) and digitally stored (all those destroyed blue cards), the system still has no ability at all to account for (1) guns transferred either to a MA dealer who shipped the gun out of state or for guns transferred directly to an out of state FFL, which is one reason that it's useful to keep your own records of every transaction, especially dealer receipts for guns transferred to the dealer, or (2) guns owned by individuals at the time they move into MA (no reportable transaction involved).
     

  2. Queen Bee

    Queen Bee NES Member

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    This is a side track.. but if this family owns weed, and owns guns.. how are they filing out 4473s?
     
  3. Asaltweapon

    Asaltweapon NES Member

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    IF I lived there at the time I would have never allowed them access into my home and you can bet I would have been heavily armed and at the ready for that scum bag. Thankfully I live in the sticks.
     
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  4. JackOfAllTrades

    JackOfAllTrades

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    3) guns turned in to a gun buyback
    4) guns destroyed in accordance with ATF requirements
     
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  5. jpk

    jpk

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    Doesnt really matter

    The point is that people have the ability to do the easy shit NOW but are too lazy to make the effort
     
  6. M60

    M60 NES Member

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    So now you say it doesn't matter that your plan sucks and you're sitting in jail, as long as we understand that people take the easy way out. I'm out after that piece of intelligence.
     
  7. Kevin_NH

    Kevin_NH NES Member

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    Slowly and carefully?
     
  8. 308rifleman

    308rifleman

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    Down the rabbit hole, somewhere in Paradise.
    We obtained all of our guns out of state. Can't see paying MA sales tax and having transactions recorded. Don't even know what a FA10 looks like and don't care to. Those are for suckers; no thanks!
     
  9. Agnotology

    Agnotology

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    I bought a 93 F-250 7.3 IDI diesel in Blandford with a stick for a Hi-Point 9mm carbine, a Remington 12 gauge autoloading shotgun, a 20 gauge pump, and $150. The only gun I miss is the 20 gauge pump, and its on the list of things to get back. My father received it as a wedding gift back in the 80s for being a groomsman. The father of the bride or groom worked for Remington, and took 5 very nicely grained stocks and had them carved to match with carvings of a duck in flight. Every time I think of it, I kick myself for parting ways. The rest of the guns were dime-a-dozen, but that one had a lot of personal value to me.

    Adding an FFL to FTF trade/sales is incomprehensible to me.
     
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  10. CrackPot

    CrackPot NES Member

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    Ive spent MANY hours with the ATF, thanks (I am an FFL 07). Based on your follow on post you are talking about being visited after your FFL filled out ATF form 3310.04 "Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers" which gets sent both to the local police and the ATF. Anytime you purchase 2 or more handguns within 5 business days, the FFL is required to complete and submit this form. Sounds like you triggered a look and see for purchasing too many of the same gun too quickly. This sounds like a straw for bangers or other criminal activity. They just wanted to lay eyes on you and decide if they wanted to pursue it further.

    I am sure they told you any number of things to get you to talk. The response of "lawyer" would either of made it all go away or had them come back with a warrant (seems unlikely since no evidence of criminal activity). They can ask. You get to decide if you want to bend over or not.

    Don't confuse this behavior with the viability of the state database on what you own. The MA database is corrupt as hell and not intended to be accurate. There is no fed database. Retention of 4473s is by the dealer or sent to the ATF on the business discontinuing. This supports traces, but is not a database. They retain NICS check info for 60 days (or at least they say this and only use 60 days as part of an FFL audit)

    Door to door confiscation is never happening.

    The real scenario to worry about is if you sold something and it ends up being used in a crime. The ATF runs a forward trace on the gun (initiated by whatever police ran across the gun). They go to manufacture and work forward. Dealers are called or records are checked from discontinued dealers. They get to you (assuming you bought it new). They have a copy of your 4473 and then contact you to find out where the gun is. Now you get to explain it fell off your boat or you sold it to some dude on the street in West Roxbury.

    We all get called to support traces. It always makes you wonder, "what did John Doe do after I sold him that gun?"

    True story, a FFL I know got a trace on a Glock. He checked his book and still had the frame for the glock. "Mrs ATF Trace Person, I still have that". "Huh?" Turns out it had come in from out of state as a frame. Someone in Ohio had been splitting them and selling the slides and internals on EBay. The gun found in the crime must have been a P80 or similar unserialized frame with a OEM barrel and slide attached so they did the trace on the only serial number they had, the one on the slide and/or barrel (3 on glocks that match from the factory). Guess that was a dead end. They never even bothered to look at the frame in inventory.
     
  11. jpk

    jpk

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    How the eff did you go from this

    To this?

    SMH
     
  12. JNewell

    JNewell NES Member

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    Even so, the NICS check records nothing about the gun other than its general type (for example, "shotgun"), so to do anything with the NICS records you'd need to go back to the FFL and search the dealer's 4473s and/or bound book.

    I've gotten that call. Bought a SIG P229 from a well-known local dealer. Traded it back to the same dealer. Got a call - your gun was found at the scene of a crime. Me: It's not mine - wait, I can tell you who I sold it to (I actually had my paper copies handy, so I found the dealer receipt) - the pistol was traded back to [dealer] on [date]. I assume they either pursued a further check of the state records or called the dealer. Being able to tell them exactly where and when the gun went was very helpful.
     
  13. one-eyed Jack

    one-eyed Jack Manufacturer Dealer NES Member

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    Strange "Trace" things can happen. I had responded a trace request for a Ruger revolver one time. I gave them the customer info, but they never contacted him. The Ruger was taken by the PD due to a restraining order and went to the famous BW who denied receiving it. Never to be seen or heard from again. Just slipped thru a crack. Jack.
     
  14. Racenet

    Racenet NES Member

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    We all know what crack it slipped into.
     
  15. clampett

    clampett NES Member

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    If they ever show up at your door to confiscate your rifles, just tell them that your conscious was bothering you because of the last mass shooting, so you took a chop saw to all of your rifles and turned them into scrap metal.
     
  16. M60

    M60 NES Member

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    LOL. Wouldn't it be nice if life was that easy.
     
  17. M60

    M60 NES Member

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    But what good does buying what you've been wanting do, if they ban it and make ownership illegal?
     
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  18. SgtHal75

    SgtHal75 NES Member

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    I
    I think this thread is driving you insane. I believe you already responded to what I said. Lol!!
     
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  19. M60

    M60 NES Member

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    You're probably right. This Ma. .gov. thing is not fun.
     
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  20. one-eyed Jack

    one-eyed Jack Manufacturer Dealer NES Member

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    Probably. I was able to retrieve the guy's guns from the BW and store them as inventory. The 15 other guns were Hi Standard .22 pistols, rifles and shotguns. The 4" Ruger in .357 mag was the one that I would call the one most likely to fall thru the crack. I probably should have had a sit down with ATF, but the guns' owner got off easy (he had let his LTC expire), and didn't want to stir the pot. Jack.
     
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  21. Beretta92FS

    Beretta92FS NES Member

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    Trump is really playing with fire if he signs a new "assault weapons" ban into law.

    Talk about setting yourself up for being a one term president. Or maybe he waits until after the 2020 election, and then goes full retard and screws us all over doubly bigly.

    Every damn time this BS: The immediate action is to punish all the people that didn't do it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019 at 7:08 AM
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  22. Kevin_NH

    Kevin_NH NES Member

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    That'd only be the case if Trump's actions lead to the pro-gun crowd sitting out the 2020 general election in sheer disgust.

    It's not as if any Republican will make a serious push to primary a sitting president, and meanwhile the Democrats are having a slugfest to see who can claim the title of most anti-gun of the anti-gun party.
     
  23. Jsfitzgerald85

    Jsfitzgerald85

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    I think the next ban we see will be one similar to the NFA in the 80s. Existing rifles will be grandfathered but will have to be registered. And i dont think they are going to do it based on cosmetic features. My guess any semi auto that can take a detachable magazine will fall under the ban. And then the Left will make sure SCOTUS doesnt overrule it. They are essentially already threatening it.
     
  24. M60

    M60 NES Member

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    I'm curious to know exactly how the left will force SCOTUS to do anything. Sounds a bit like the cart trying to pull the horse to me.
     
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  25. NHCraigT

    NHCraigT NES Member

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    8/15/19: Nearly 200 House Dems Now Support Bill Outlawing All New Semi-Automatic Weapons
     
  26. daekken

    daekken NES Member

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    It's actually pretty easy in theory if the Democrats win the White House and get control of Congress. The answer is court packing. FDR wanted to do it when the courts were striking down New Deal initiatives: Judicial Procedures Reform Bill of 1937 - Wikipedia.

    The Constitution does not quantify the number of Supreme Court justices--so no amendment required.
    You get Congress (if they wrest control of both houses) to pass a bill saying "there are now 19 SCOTUS judges."
    Then, whichever Democrat wins the White House nominates ten judges that fit his or her agenda. The same Congress that bumped the number of judges now rubber stamps their confirmation. Now you've got a rock solid (presumably) slam dunk on every SCOTUS case. The only thing stopping you would be the morality of those judges.

    This, of course, presumes you have enough of a majority in the houses of Congress to pass the bill and confirm the nominations, and to override any coalition of Republicans + Democrats that might not want to go along with it. FDR faced a good amount of pushback within his own circles; unsurprising since it sets a really bad precedent.

    But still, a blue wave coupled with desperation could lead to a stacked court that makes Trump's appointments irrelevant.

    Just imagine, two years from now we could be facing ten fresh RBGs being sworn in to SCOTUS. The left won't have to "force SCOTUS to do anything" - they'll collaborate with them as co-conspirators against the Constitution.
     
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  27. M60

    M60 NES Member

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    Then again, maybe it will be the other way around.
     
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  28. NorthShore

    NorthShore NES Member

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    CNN had an article today that 67% of Americans want a AWB.

    84% of all statistics are made up
     
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  29. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    Especially if it's crescent news network publishing it... [rofl]
     
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  30. whalerman69

    whalerman69 NES Member

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    And the other 37% undecided...;)
     
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