AWB of 2019...Permanent this time?

CrackPot

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That may work for places not with a registration, but here in MA we are f***ed. You have a missing semi auto rifle on file... when the ban happens.. i am sure you will be brought to jail.
yeah, no. we dont have registration. NY has registration of handguns. We have recording of transactions. That does not yield a complete or accurate database like registration.

MA does not "remove" anything from the list of what they think you have even when you fa10 it. and their are lots of ways you can sell/give away/destroy/move your firearm legally and not have to tell MA that further corrupt the database.

the data base is shite.

We have enough crap in this state without making up new things to fear
 

jpk

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Only if they get caught, charged and convicted.
Right but shooting skills are like freedom.....it isnt passed on in the DNA.....

Now they just wait

If you cant practice or teach the next generation........
 

LuvDog

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I actually do believe a new ban is coming. I don't think it will go as far as buybacks/confiscation though. That's a logistical nightmare that no one has the time or money for.
But new sales will most likely stop. Of course, then "alterations" will be figured out across the country, similar to what is already done in MA/CA.
 

daekken

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I actually do believe a new ban is coming. I don't think it will go as far as buybacks/confiscation though. That's a logistical nightmare that no one has the time or money for.
But new sales will most likely stop. Of course, then "alterations" will be figured out across the country, similar to what is already done in MA/CA.
They can go the Canadian route with Prohibited Class weapons:

No transfers (including inheritance). Is it going to get rid of them all? Not for a very long time. Even if passed tomorrow the 21 year old with a pair of ARs would be able to ride them for a very long time. But they'd undoubtedly reduce the circulation in time. Once the volume gets low enough and/or ownership is stigmatized enough, then you do the taking.

However, I was reading recently how progressives seem to be unable to play the gradual game; it's all or nothing for many of them.
 

M60

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There are already thousands of people who have ignored other AWBs, in this or that state, don't see how this is any different. The compliance rate for this crap is stupidly low. Nobody is facing a judge unless they get caught.

-Mike
I think that the problem here in Ma. is that Ma. has it's own gun registry. some other states do not. If Ma. passes its own state laws they know where the guns are, or at the very least they have a list of what you have if and when they come for them.
 

drgrant

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I think that the problem here in Ma. is that Ma. has it's own gun registry. some other states do not. If Ma. passes its own state laws they know where the guns are, or at the very least they have a list of what you have if and when they come for them.
Not quite. That database is filled with garbage and a lot of people have stuff not in it, or stored elsewhere outside the
reg, etc. Old guns aren't even likely in the thing because of the "bird poop incident" etc. Then you have scores of guys building 80% etc (something I never got into, but I see why others do). And anyone building off an 80 sure as hell isn't FA-10ing their crap, unless they're terminally stupid.

Another fun problem- I could sell all my guns tomorrow and the state will still think I own like 50 guns, according to their "database" because of the
way records are not cleaned up there. So the state is going to be harassing people based likely on poor quality data.

Not to mention- this is a state that won't spend any money on gun control. Where do you think they're going to get all the cash to pay for the LE OT to start seizing a bunch of guns?


-Mike
 

M60

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I actually do believe a new ban is coming. I don't think it will go as far as buybacks/confiscation though. That's a logistical nightmare that no one has the time or money for.
But new sales will most likely stop. Of course, then "alterations" will be figured out across the country, similar to what is already done in MA/CA.
It looks like the Ma. state legislature is a step or 12 ahead of the curve on this issue. The similar that you refer to is probably going to be a lot more severe in Ma. than it is already.
 
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M60

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Not quite. That database is filled with garbage and a lot of people have stuff not in it, or stored elsewhere outside the
reg, etc. Old guns aren't even likely in the thing because of the "bird poop incident" etc. Then you have scores of guys building 80% etc (something I never got into, but I see why others do). And anyone building off an 80 sure as hell isn't FA-10ing their crap, unless they're terminally stupid.

Another fun problem- I could sell all my guns tomorrow and the state will still think I own like 50 guns, according to their "database" because of the
way records are not cleaned up there. So the state is going to be harassing people based likely on poor quality data.

Not to mention- this is a state that won't spend any money on gun control. Where do you think they're going to get all the cash to pay for the LE OT to start seizing a bunch of guns?

Easy solution for state democrats. A special dangerousness tax on guns and ammo and, or anything else they can pass to pay the cost.


-Mike
 

drgrant

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I should have been clearer

My point is that should it come down to enforcement actions on the part of a state or the fed gov the overwhelming majority of people would fold like an overcooked noodle

the tens of thousands of people in Ct for example that own AR's and had an opportunity to show up at their capitol when the donks were pushing for the ban chose not to make an effort to protect their rights

Had they put even 5000 of these people in the capitol that bill never would have passed........but instead they did nothing and they're now felons

We're facing same issue in other states now......

If folks are unwilling to make an effort to do the easy stuff NOW..... dont count on them to come down on the right side of things when they are forced to make a difficult decision.
I'm not concerned about confiscation, that's not even realistic or plausible, at least not at this phase of the game. Nobody is going to pay for that shit (cost is billions, which moonbat pet projects wont get) and .gov is not dumb enough to touch off the boogaloo or any kind of a mass insurrection at this stage.

What is realistic is gradual destruction of gun culture via attrition, etc. Ban this ban that. chip away here, there, etc. For example, thousands of potential new shooters will stop caring or lose interest in firearms, because they will act the way I did like, 20 years ago or whatever it was... "oh they already banned all the good shit, I'm not even going to bother" etc. Say we keep losing, and in 20 years the only things left to buy are fudd
garbage, how many from the next generation are going to be interested in that stuff? Not a whole hell of a lot, unless hunting or wingshooting was big
in their family. Next thing you know the clubs get all lame and won't allow you to shoot your preban-exempt-registered-grandfathered-whatever AR because PC bullshit has invaded the gun culture and destroyed some shooting facilities.

The chilling effect of frontal bans, regulation, and lard laden laws, etc, scares new people away from gun ownership. The long term damage this
causes is a form of irreparable harm. That's the REAL danger here.

-Mike
 

drgrant

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Easy solution for state democrats. A special dangerousness tax on guns and ammo and, or anything else they can pass to pay the cost.
How is that going to work out when they ban all the shit people want to buy? [laugh] a 100% tax on (handful of guns nobody cares about) still isn't
a lot of funding. Maura has already punched the industry in this state square in the rectum, and it's likely already had a huge chilling effect on various
things. Fun example, gun shows. I mean some of it is just their own undoing, shows are dying in MA and I'd be surprised if the big ones even get
run in a few years, club shows will be all that's left. The promoter f***ed up the big ones but maura and her ilk haven't helped matters,
either. (because dealers can't sell anything interesting anymore, at least not openly in MA).

-Mike
 

M60

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Who's kidding who......

Folks cant find the intestinal fortitude to do the easy stuff now.......you think they're going to suddenly find the intestinal fortitude to do anything but cave should they ever have to face a marsupial judge trying to apply unconstitutional law?
You've overlooked a big something in your post. You said judge trying to apply unconstitutional law. You didn't consider the clear and obvious fact that the judge will certainly achieve the application of unconstitutional law. Once he does, you're sitting in jail, while your attorney prepares your appeal and waits for a prolonged court date. Your court date arrives. You are driven from prison to the courthouse. You face yet another judge applying unconstitutional law. Then back to jail you go. And so on and so on and so on. The summary is both obvious and clear. Your life sucks from that point on. At what point do you say damn, the plan that I was so proud of, when I posted it on NES, just plain sucks in practical application.
 
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Queen Bee

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I don't believe it's a matter of compliance. These guns are registered. They know what we have and they know where we live. They will find a way to take the guns if they want them. They will probably use the same method, that they will use to impose the red flag law.

They weren't registered with a paper trail to follow. They come for it. We don't give it up . We stand before a judge. He says give it up or stay in jail. What do you do then?
Aren't we talking about the Ma. law makers here? That's what I'm talking about. I wish there were millions of us.
Well, I was talking about the registered guns that they have a list of. The paper trail guns.
Thank you M60. Me and you are talking the same points.

yeah, no. we dont have registration. NY has registration of handguns. We have recording of transactions. That does not yield a complete or accurate database like registration.

MA does not "remove" anything from the list of what they think you have even when you fa10 it. and their are lots of ways you can sell/give away/destroy/move your firearm legally and not have to tell MA that further corrupt the database.

the data base is shite.

We have enough crap in this state without making up new things to fear

Wrong .... all of you who have not been visited by the ATF do not know jack, so please dont tell me that your magically going to say you sold them out of state. Because guess what, you need to keep records of all your transactions, even when i went to places like GFA arms, or gartman, or mikes back in the day, i got a bill of sale from every store. It proves you do not own the gun still. Just because everything you have ever purchased is on file, IE the serial numbers are what they show up with, they go through your paperwork and check off each serial number. Thankfully the atf guy did not care to see all the guns just wanted to see the paperwork. long story for another time.

So good luck saying oh i sold them all out of state. Your best option are 80% lowers, stick them in a pvc tube and into the ground. stick to that vs trying to lie to the atf agent and town police officer at your door in the morning while getting ready for work. If they take them, so what you have your off the books guns already stashed.
 

drgrant

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Wrong .... all of you who have not been visited by the ATF do not know jack, so please dont tell me that your magically going to say you sold them out of state. Because guess what, you need to keep records of all your transactions, even when i went to places like GFA arms, or gartman, or mikes back in the day, i got a bill of sale from every store. It proves you do not own the gun still. Just because everything you have ever purchased is on file, IE the serial numbers are what they show up with, they go through your paperwork and check off each serial number. Thankfully the atf guy did not care to see all the guns just wanted to see the paperwork. long story for another time.
There's nothing under MGL or federal law that requires anyone to maintain or keep paperwork unless you're an FFL. If you were told that by the agent, congratulations, then they just blew some smoke at you to get you to talk, etc. Remember LE is allowed to lie to people to achieve whatever their
ends are. If they think that lying about the laws (and acting serious while doing so) will get them what they want faster and easier, they will do so.

Did this come out of MHP form fun or something else?

-Mike
 

Queen Bee

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Back when mike's gun shop was in business and selling stuff like he was in NH, i bought glocks like candy, too much too quick, and mostly the same model. 26s and 19s and 17s etc,

So 1 ATF. And 1 town police showed up at my door asking to see my paperwork on the guns. Infront of them they had a sheet of paper with every serial number on it, and its manufacture. Not model or anything detailed. But he asked so i keep them out on my front porch, like an old vid i remembered never let them inside.. so he and the cop looked through the paperwork, checked off the serial numbers, and went on their way. I remember even asking him what they carried, he said a sig.. i was like... get a glock.
 

mibro

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Yes. This!

I remember when the Redcoats were marching to Concord to seize weapons. That was a great day. Everyone came running with their shovels to bury the weapons cache before the Redcoats could get there.

Boy! Were those Redcoats shocked when they got there and discovered no weapons! I bet They thought they got really bad intel.
Many of the rifles/muskets in the Concord Armory were in fact laid down in the furrows of freshly plowed fields. The British didn't find them after spending three or four hours searching Concord.

This 2A battle was lost in 1965 when Congress voted to transform the population of the USA.

The question for any future AWB/confiscation is whether it's something you would want to die over. Personally I feel I won't know until it actually happens. For most people I would imagine the answer would be no, a perfectly rational choice.

Hiding firearms under that scenario means nothing other than you have just become the old man in Sundown At Coffin Rock.

For me, the one good rationale for hiding firearms is in case the USA goes full Bolshevik Revolution and there are death squads going door-to-door just as there were in Moscow and St. Petersburg in 1918. It would be nice to have the means to resist in that case, if only briefly.
 
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drgrant

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Back when mike's gun shop was in business and selling stuff like he was in NH, i bought glocks like candy, too much too quick, and mostly the same model. 26s and 19s and 17s etc,

So 1 ATF. And 1 town police showed up at my door asking to see my paperwork on the guns. Infront of them they had a sheet of paper with every serial number on it, and its manufacture. Not model or anything detailed. But he asked so i keep them out on my front porch, like an old vid i remembered never let them inside.. so he and the cop looked through the paperwork, checked off the serial numbers, and went on their way. I remember even asking him what they carried, he said a sig.. i was like... get a glock.
Yeah, that's a typical MHP trigger inquiry (because that's the stuff that goes on the MHP form) although in those cases because the visit is pretty proximate to the purchase, (I bet they showed up like less than a month after you purchased the last of the guns) the odds of you having paperwork is still pretty good. The showing up with the town cop is a little much, but it seems to vary depending on the agent. Some of them will call the FFL first
and start asking questions.

I only ever had one MHP whopper with like 12+ handguns on it, and the feds never came, but it probably helped that the FFL attached a letter/note with the MHP form that went off to the feds that more or less said "his friend done f***ed up and lost his license, now he's getting all his friends guns via an bulk FFL transfer".

-Mike
 

Queen Bee

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As this speaks of commiewealth of assachusetts, confiscation will prob never happen, but this is about daydreaming about a full on german nazi like confiscation in 1 state. Not surrounding states. As full federal AWB, + confiscation would lead to war. What M60 was stating, for us in MA, you are not really going to put up a fight and draw your line in the sand for 1 state or it would have already happened with maura banning the most common MSR. You most likely going to do what most who have already done.. leave this state for NH or ME, or south etc.. just like i plan to do. MA can go door to door. We are a very small community in MA. They already shown they will do door to door in watertown during the boston bombing looking for 1 man. Every home owner let swat into their house without a fight.
 
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Cipher

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If you arent making plans to leave now, do it. New laws might not happen for a while but now is the time. Most other states have a cultural immunity to this sh*t with the numbers to push off this legislation. We do not.
 

drgrant

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MA can go door to door. We are a very small community in MA.
MA still can't afford it, like on one day alone (eg around 7/20/16) over 2000 ARs were sold in this state. Even if that was like 2 guns per person, that's still 1000 people. How much do you think it costs in police man hours to raid 1000 homes? [laugh]

The reality is you include all the pre 7/20 people and now you're at least up to like 5,000+ homes that have an AK or AR in it in MA. (and that's being very conservative, number might be 2-5 times that for all we know).

The moonbats are never going to suck for that, not even if gun control is one of their pets, they're not going to let that money be taken away from
building a round high school, horse bridge, or whatever stupid project they have in mind. Remember most moonbats in this state aren't actually exposed to things like street violence. So they talk a good talk, but when it comes down to screws, they don't care that much that they'd throw something else under the bus over it. (like a school, or school funding) MA's fiduciary rolls are a lot smaller than some state like NJ, NY, or CA, so sloughing off millions to pay for gun control isn't simply going to go unnoticed.

It's one of the few things that has saved us from heinous shit on a few occasions. Linsky or some other dbag would come up with some heinous gun
control proposal, and somewhere within it a potential cost would be mentioned (like for example, an improved gun registration system) and when that started shuffling around behind closed doors other moonbats didn't want to pay for it, etc. Even with the surplus they ran, you can bet that moonbats already have plans for that money.

Didn't they do temporary confiscation i recall during the boston bomber when he was hiding? For public safety? I could be wrong though. Every home owner let swat into their house without a fight.
No, basically people (who are largely moonbats) in Watertown let the cops into their houses. Don't think any guns were confiscated, but Watertown probably is one of the lowest guns/capita rates in the state, so wouldn't be many guns for them to take, either.

-Mike
 

Queen Bee

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Yeh i don't believe it will ever happen, since it has never happened ever. Nothing like this grand of scale has happened in the USA since japanese internment. It is NEVER going to happen. It will have a grandfathered clause so they keep uprise at a minimum. Everyone here will be grandfathered so they put up less of a fight.
 

Varmint

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IMO, Republican politicians will give lip service to AWB but they won't vote for it - that's high risk low reward. They'll wait for interest in the shootings to die down. The Dems only hope is to keep the shootings going into the mid-term elections. Watch your back and avoid conservative gatherings like country music concerts.
 

M60

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As this speaks of commiewealth of assachusetts, confiscation will prob never happen, but this is about daydreaming about a full on german nazi like confiscation in 1 state. Not surrounding states. As full federal AWB, + confiscation would lead to war. What M60 was stating, for us in MA, you are not really going to put up a fight and draw your line in the sand for 1 state or it would have already happened with maura banning the most common MSR. You most likely going to do what most who have already done.. leave this state for NH or ME, or south etc.. just like i plan to do. MA can go door to door. We are a very small community in MA. They already shown they will do door to door in watertown during the boston bombing looking for 1 man. Every home owner let swat into their house without a fight.
I think in the Watertown situation people were trying to help catch the bomber weren't they. As a normal course of events thing, I don't think most gun owners would let them in without a warrant. I know that I wouldn't. I can't speak for the average Joe. That's for sure.
 
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